"I'm going to hit masters on this account and just go play other games, because this game isn't fun right now"
And from what I understand most high elo streamers think this game is in an awful game state, they only play it because that's how they make their livings.
Sailor Mint12 votesRiven is really bad right now. Know many OTPs who enjoy the game when their waifu is in a bad spot?
SangreDeNoche17 votes[{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=egLc5gUB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-21T19:16:10.262+0000)
Riven is really bad right now. Know many OTPs who enjoy the game when their waifu is in a bad spot?
Dyrus, Anniebot, Trick2G, and Tobias Fate were all in low Diamond for the preseason. They occasionally got up to D2 but fell back down. I feel like if regular master tiers are in low diamond for months at a time there's something wrong.
ISLAMICWARRIOR995 votesDyrus, Anniebot, Trick2G, and Tobias Fate were all in low Diamond for the preseason. They occasionally got up to D2 but fell back down. I feel like if regular master tiers are in low diamond for months at a time there's something wrong.
Tobias has been stuck diamond since early s7, dyrus trolled all preseason, trick uses a stupid play style is normally stuck diamond, annibot has been stuck diamond forever lol.
PePsiLemoNN1 votesAfaik only time Tobias was not hardstuck low diamond was when GP was broken after the rework lul
SithesisLord2 votesTobias Fate's issue isn´t just that. It´s the fact that he, much like Hashinshin, refuses to adapt. He only goes for full damage GP, despite the fact that Bruiser/GraspPlank would work better against certain champions and team comps.
Crystalysk36 votesMore than 50% winrate, totally bad spot.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesdont just throw wr number without pick rate... Thats said she have 10% pick at plat elo, so yeah a good spot.
Crystalysk1 votesDo i even need to post her pickrate? It is always high since she is the most popular top lane.
HeimerLmao1 votesNot most popular I think, but still pretty often picked. Edit: Just saying that from my low silver point of view.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesi say this many like to thow numbers out of context, on this board. And 50% wr can be really meh depending on the pick rate (like Wu or trox).
and before this preseason Riven wasn't so popular... or maybe it was me, but i rarely encounter her before.
option paralysis18 votes[{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=egLc5gUB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-21T19:16:10.262+0000)
Riven is really bad right now. Know many OTPs who enjoy the game when their waifu is in a bad spot?
"really bad spot" btw https://i.imgur.com/Tomgbq3.png
HongChongDong9 votesRiven has a 50% Winrate and has more One tricks in masters and challengers than ANY other champion in the game. If you can make it passed diamond without ever opening up to a diverse champion pool, then your champion is stupid plain and simple.
JustARivenMain2 votesRiven has a 50% Winrate and has more One tricks in masters and challengers than ANY other champion in the game. If you can make it passed diamond without ever opening up to a diverse champion pool, then your champion is stupid plain and simple.
I think you're missing the point, Riven is at a 50% winrate from people starting to pick up spellbook, toplane is a fiesta and that's why she's considered bad, because she isnt a frontline tank. Spellbook allows her to do her flash engage more often so she's performing better than the 48% winrate she had when new runes launched. She also is close to 50% because of how many one tricks she has, if you look at Lolalytics the difference between the avg player and good player winrate is pretty big, it's how she's staying closer to the avg w/r. Alot of champions are bad right now, most juggernauts, most Skirmishers, it's a huge fiesta toplane and it always has been.
All I'm trying to say is just look at it objectively, I hope Riv doesn't get buffed, that'll just make more problems. We need less damage in the game, not more.
Edit: Also we'll see what state she's in when they change spellbook like they said they would in the /dev Diary, she's pretty fine rn.
HongChongDong2 votesOk, good points. Quick question though, why does any of that matter? She's a melee assassin bruiser duelist. She has no right to beable to "engage" in the first place, so regardless of spellbook or no spellbook she's fine.
Then the biggest issue, ask yourself WHY she has so many one tricks in the first place. Let me give you a hint: She's a dumb champion. It's not because she's fun, because Morde is actually pretty fun but you don't see 50 thousand one tricks running around, especially not in masters and challenger.
It's because the entire champion is built up around a toxic community behind her and the kit itself. The Riven community claims she's a champion that can only be mastered through extreme skill, players left and right play her because she looks cool as hell and watch her wreck house, they practice and learn her mechanics about as easily as they would on any other champion, then they suddenly start wrecking house as well. They get a massive Ego from thinking they've just outskilled everyone else, get their wins and LP, and then just become a dime a dozen riven player that you see flooding every single part of the ELO ladder.
ninjaroxas1 votesI just have to ask. Have you actually played riven in a high elo?
HongChongDong1 votesI've played her minimally in any elo, alittle in diamond. I have a strict principle to not play champions that I have a clear hatred and disgust for.
ninjaroxas1 votesLol I'm the same with blitz. However while I do hate riven I do think she is one of the harder champions to play at their best.
JustARivenMain2 votesOk, good points. Quick question though, why does any of that matter? She's a melee assassin bruiser duelist. She has no right to beable to "engage" in the first place, so regardless of spellbook or no spellbook she's fine.
Then the biggest issue, ask yourself WHY she has so many one tricks in the first place. Let me give you a hint: She's a dumb champion. It's not because she's fun, because Morde is actually pretty fun but you don't see 50 thousand one tricks running around, especially not in masters and challenger.
It's because the entire champion is built up around a toxic community behind her and the kit itself. The Riven community claims she's a champion that can only be mastered through extreme skill, players left and right play her because she looks cool as hell and watch her wreck house, they practice and learn her mechanics about as easily as they would on any other champion, then they suddenly start wrecking house as well. They get a massive Ego from thinking they've just outskilled everyone else, get their wins and LP, and then just become a dime a dozen riven player that you see flooding every single part of the ELO ladder.
Well her being able to engage is what's keeping her pretty close to 50%, I've seen her as my favorite champ since her release wayy back in 2011, I know the kind of toxic community she's based around, but for the most part those are just people who pick her up because people claim she's so easy and op, then they get salty as fuck because they can't play her right and lose, then flame everyone else instead of practicing, those are the same people who call for buffs when she really doesn't need it. Riven may be annoying as all hell to play against with her mini-stuns, but she IS one of the more mechanically intensive champions, always there with Azir and other champs as one of the hardest champs to master.
I think that also is part of the reason she has so many one tricks, she's been out for almost 7 years, has a reputation as one of the most mechanically intensive champs, so many people claim she's op and easy at the same time, causing for a lot of people to swarm to her for different reasons and it's pretty much a 50/50 if the Riven main you're against is a toxic person who's shit and shows no improvement, or a nice person who's pretty good and improving, then you got the rare occasions that they're toxic and good, aswell as improving.
Toplane has always been a fiesta, of course the community behind the champions are going to be aswell, that's just my thoughts on the champion though.
I don't play Riv very much.
HongChongDong1 votesShe's one of the most mechanically intensive? No, she isn't. People claim she is then show off her cute little animation cancels and combo's. Any player above the point of incompetent can go watch a guide video, practice everything special about riven, and learn it as easily as you would tricks for other champions. I've done it, I've watched other people do it, and I have several people I talk to that've done it.
As I said. People constantly claim that she's one of the most mechanically intensive champions in the game, people flock to her and pick up her kit with some basic practice and guide help, then they go in and wreck house. Think they've accomplished something great and assume they're just better than everyone else, and thus a standard riven main is born.
NemeBro1 votesShe's one of the most mechanically intensive? No, she isn't.
Yes she is, you being incredibly salty over her requiring more skill than your mechanically basic fish doesn't change that fact.
Let go of the hatred.
HongChongDong1 votesIs she more mechanically advanced than fizz? Yes she is actually. It's the reason why fizz wrecks low elo so much because in order to learn him at the basic level it doesn't take much.
But to call her difficult and say she's one of the hardest champions in the game? No, she's no different from any average champion in LoL.
JustARivenMain2 votesShe's one of the most mechanically intensive? No, she isn't. People claim she is then show off her cute little animation cancels and combo's. Any player above the point of incompetent can go watch a guide video, practice everything special about riven, and learn it as easily as you would tricks for other champions. I've done it, I've watched other people do it, and I have several people I talk to that've done it.
As I said. People constantly claim that she's one of the most mechanically intensive champions in the game, people flock to her and pick up her kit with some basic practice and guide help, then they go in and wreck house. Think they've accomplished something great and assume they're just better than everyone else, and thus a standard riven main is born.
There are champions that are more nowadays, but that isn't to say in League of Legends she isn't. There's not a huge skill gap for champions besides positioning and animation cancels, Azir's kit is pretty simple looking at it, but it's what you can do with it. The reason Riven has been viable to semi-viable all these years is her kit, it's flexible, you can do a lot with what you're given. If she was as stupid easy as you claim, then there wouldn't be the stereotype for the feeding Riven main now would there? c:
Stop with your hate goggles, take them off and look at it objectively, compared to other champions she requires higher mechanics than most others, look at Zoe, Garen, most adcs (Kalista is def the highest skill cap in that roster)
She wouldn't have so many mains that fed in tons of games if people wouldn't just go around spewing hate saying she's such a braindead champ and rolls face, It's just plain not true. (Unless you're in bronze but then like every champ who has lots of mechanics become Bronze-slayers, they just don't try to play around your kit.)
HongChongDong1 votesI never said she was easy? I said she wasn't this top tier difficult champion that everyone makes her out to be.
Is she more mechanically advanced? Yes, she has a decent amount to her kit. Doesn't mean she's difficult, just has more depth to her mechanics than most champions. Her learning curve is no more difficult than those ADC's that you're hating on, the difference is simply in what the learning curve entails. ADC's Require proper positioning at all times and kiting, they simply lose out hard to other champion classes. 1 mistake and you find your entire HP bar disappearing in a single second. Riven requires you to learn ability combo's.
An "easy" champion is someone with a short learning curve and too much power gained for it, which is Zoe in my opinion.
Though that doesn't mean I don't hate riven. I'm 100% in belief that Riven is a champion that takes the same amount of mastery as any other champion but gains too much in return for it.
Rexxiee10 votesNo reason to play a mechanically demanding champ like riven when you can play ornn and have your cat step on the keyboard to get better results.
LOSINGISMYPRIDE7 votesi dont use a cat .... I use a trash can [slayer-jinx-wink] .
iamthegoatofwar10 votesIt's not nice to call yourself trash.
Lios Ashenblade2 votesDangit I was going to make an Ex girlfriend joke...
RainXBlade1 votesThis is sad but true. This is why I play Yasuo less nowadays.
Who Fed Ru9 voteswho doesn't enjoy that 
shitfest going on rn?
EssenceOfPoo1 votesmaybe they should remove boots too since everyone gets it.
Tristanl0l10 votesmaybe we should remove your brain because you clearly dont use it
Rathar Dashing6 votes
still exists
koshkyra2 votesmaybe they should remove boots too since everyone gets it
[{quoted}](name=Xx69 weed 420xX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=egLc5gUB,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-01-22T04:44:37.706+0000)
maybe we should remove your brain because you clearly dont use it
IM DYING
Who Fed Ru1 votesoh sorry, forgot that was designed to be a core item that basically everyone takes
EssenceOfPoo2 votesah, the good ol' "it was invented for this purpose so you shall not use it for other purposes" argument.
the butthole developed for dumping shit. yet people still stick their wee-wee in those poo-poo holes.
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Who Fed Ru2 votesthere is a difference between it getting used for something else and it just being so broken that it becomes almost mandatory to take, even if it should just be a situational mastery.
EssenceOfPoo1 votes[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=egLc5gUB,comment-id=00070000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-22T13:36:58.077+0000)
there is a difference between it getting used for something else and it just being so broken that it becomes almost mandatory to take, even if it should just be a situational mastery.
ahem 
cough cough
Wînter Fox8 votesNice to see the hatred for Riven spewed all over here is alive and well. But it's not about Riven or her win rate. It's about the state of the game, knowing who's going to win 8 min in, top lane having no impact, and the vast majority of top laners stuck dealing with Klepto Nasus, Gangplank, Teemo and Kayle while bot lane and jungle decides who wins.
nice table3 votessaying riven isn't horrible = spewing hatred :thinking:
oh you are a riven main? well of course then any time anyone mentions riven without claiming she needs buffs is a crybaby hating on her.
seriously though i don't see a single post here that could be considered hatred by anyone with a brain
GayFluffyUnicorn9 votesAnd you really think GP is carrying anything without a jungler? He just gets doven like everyone else. TOPLANE IS SHIT because and now here comes the truth: JUNGLE AND BOTLANE IS OVERPOWERED AS ALL HELL. Same as mages for everyone who isnt ADC+shield slave. Literally something like xerath is just Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q every two fuckin seconds but oh no camille is op every 8secs she MAYBe gets onto a target. Im not even going to talk about jax or anyone else who actually has to think about when to use something. You know that "ebb and flow" GC is talking about that only counts for melee fighter. The rest can just perma spam all their shit with no cooldowns or any resource management. Fuckin adcs 1v3 with stattik and bf sword.
BestPudgeNA2 votesAnd you really think GP is carrying anything without a jungler? He just gets doven like everyone else. TOPLANE IS SHIT because and now here comes the truth: JUNGLE AND BOTLANE IS OVERPOWERED AS ALL HELL.
Meanwhile the TF Blade has been perma rank 1 Challenger for like 6 months playing Top Lane 
Slythion3 votesIsn't the top of the challenger board ridden with support/adc duos now that you can duo in challenger? I find it hard to believe a toplaner of all roles has obtained Rank 1Challenger recently, let alone consistently for 6 months
BestPudgeNA1 votesIsn't the top of the challenger board ridden with support/adc duos now that you can duo in challenger? I find it hard to believe a toplaner of all roles has obtained Rank 1Challenger recently, let alone consistently for 6 months
There isn't a single Support in the top 30 currently. Top has the most, followed by JG then ADC then Mid.
TF Blade Has been rank 1 Challenger for the majority of the time since like worlds last year.
Slythion1 votesHm, that's interesting. How do you check for challenger rankings btw? I'd like to be able to keep track of this stuff
EssenceOfPoo2 votesby "most high elo streamers", you mean Adrian and Hashinshit?
Slythion10 votesI don't even follow a lot of high elo streamers, but even Dyrus isn't playing as much anymore either
By throwing "Hashinshit" out there I assume you also disagree with all the others he's brought to the stage about top lane/the state of the game in general? Ya'know:
Wickd Irelia Carries You EThug Dekar
some of these guys are memes and you don't have to respect their personalities, but I don't think we should pretend like they aren't challenger players that know what they're talking about?
I'm 100% sure I haven't even mentioned most of the other streamers because I simply don't follow everyone
NorthernRedStar6 votesI don't even follow a lot of high elo streamers, but even Dyrus isn't playing as much anymore either
By throwing "Hashinshit" out there I assume you also disagree with all the others he's brought to the stage about top lane/the state of the game in general? Ya'know:
Wickd Irelia Carries You EThug Dekar
some of these guys are memes and you don't have to respect their personalities, but I don't think we should pretend like they aren't challenger players that know what they're talking about?
I'm 100% sure I haven't even mentioned most of the other streamers because I simply don't follow everyone
One can just search on Youtube for a video of Hashinshin, Wickd, Dekar, and Adrian all discussing the state of the game, and top lane specifically.
They don't have a lot of good stuff to say, Imma give you that. The game balance is awful.
Duskblade on every AD champion that isn't ADC, Stopwatch on 8/10 champions every game, jungler's only job is to camp bot lane / a single lane, take tower and it's GG. Tanks deal ludicrous damage, assassins like Nocturne and Rengar even more so. ADC kills everyone 1v4, then enemy Ornn kills them and their teammates 1v3.
Nerf the xp a jungler gets from sitting in lane bush for 1 minute then getting a lucky kill on the laner. Nerf the ridiculous sustain creep that's plaguing top and bot lanes. Nerf all these safe2play mages like Malzahar and Anivia who push lane like mindless drones with one ability and without using any mana.
And for the love of god, stop shitting on AP supports. For 3 seasons in a row now.
Slythion3 votesJust to clarify, you're agreeing with me and just expanding on the points made right? haha
I've been listening to Hashinshin thoughts the past few days just because I've wanted to educate myself on the state of top laner recently
Automated Riven2 votesJust to clarify, you're agreeing with me and just expanding on the points made right? haha
I've been listening to Hashinshin thoughts the past few days just because I've wanted to educate myself on the state of top laner recently
Don't listen to hashinshin then. That guy couldn't have an objective thought if his life depended on it.
Slythion2 votesWell I'm not just listening to Hashinshin, but he does host some good conversations and it's not like all of his opinions are somehow irrelevant or wrong. He is still a high-elo top laner with sound knowledge of the game
and I'd like to think I'm not a sheep enough to let his biased talk consume my personal opinions/interpretations of the relationships he talks about.
