"Spellvamp is toxic"

Niyumi·Jul 28, 2016·3 votes·692 views

Yet, it's totally healthy, balanced gameplay for any ADC to build lifesteal and heal through any fight, automatically winning any 1v1 (even had an Ashe sustain herself through a 6-tentacle Illaoi ult when I had 350 AD), and for any other AD champ to just build a Death's Dance and be as much of a drain tank as Vlad is.

So, when spellvamp is a niche stat, and isn't really that useful, but deemed toxic... then what the hell does that make lifesteal?

But hey, whales gotta feel like they're good somehow, right? AD champs are generally easier, so they need to have more strengths and benefits.

24 Comments

Fondling GemsJul 28, 20164 votes

The reason it is a bad mechanic is because ADC's overall do consistent aa dmg that has little variance between adcs. Abilities do drastically different amount of dmg even with the same build which means that certain champs make very good use of spell vamp which then either means that A) The spell vamp gets nerfed until it is an ok item on them and complete trash on every other mage, essentially becoming an item that only exists in certain situations, or B) the champs that abuse spell vamp get nerfed which just makes them completely dependent on those items because w/o them they are useless. Riot tries to steer champs away from requiring one item to be useful hence the removal of spell vamp not because it was an unhealthy mechanic in and of itself, but because it wasn't a healthy mechanic to balance around. Spell vamp is fine, trying to balance a game around spell vamp is not.

Lifesteal on the other hand is consistent across almost all champs (few cases such as Graves, Jhin, and Draven that get a bit more lifesteal than normal at the cost of that boost not being consistent. (reloading times and needed to juggle axes)) and due to the fact that unlike certain champ abilities it can't rely in base damages to work and rather needs more damage to be effective it means that those who build it have to be very squishy to make effective use of it.

NiyumiJul 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ee6x8h8R,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-28T17:51:11.410+0000)

... ADC's overall do consistent aa dmg that has little variance between adcs.

Crit is a thing, and every ADC has wildly different numbers on their AA damage -- donno what world you're living in.

Lifesteal on the other hand is consistent across almost all champs (few cases such as Graves, Jhin, and Draven that get a bit more lifesteal than normal at the cost of that boost not being consistent. (reloading times and needed to juggle axes)) and due to the fact that unlike certain champ abilities it can't rely in base damages to work and rather needs more damage to be effective it means that those who build it have to be very squishy to make effective use of it.

I'd like to point out tank Graves, tank Win Nhao, Warwick, and all these other champs who stack lifesteal or build Death's Dance and are plenty tanky while still being able to instagib people.

See, lifesteal eliminates the one weakness that ADCs have, which is their being squishy. It doesn't take them any amount of effort or skill to sustain themselves through everything, they just passively get healed for AA spamming everything like they already would. So, I don't see how it's fair, in any way, that the easiest class in the game is rewarded with free, passive sustain while AP champions get nothing.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 28, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Crit is a thing, and every ADC has wildly different numbers on their AA damage -- donno what world you're living in.

I'd like to point out tank Graves, tank Win Nhao, Warwick, and all these other champs who stack lifesteal or build Death's Dance and are plenty tanky while still being able to instagib people.

See, lifesteal eliminates the one weakness that ADCs have, which is their being squishy. It doesn't take them any amount of effort or skill to sustain themselves through everything, they just passively get healed for AA spamming everything like they already would. So, I don't see how it's fair, in any way, that the easiest class in the game is rewarded with free, passive sustain while AP champions get nothing.

lifesteal does not eliminate squishiness

sustain is countered by burst

but spellvamp scales with burst in most cases while lifesteal tends to scale better with sustained damage champs that can be bursted

by the way ashe vs illaoi is a terrible example

illaoi should actually probably be countered by ashe regardless but then add lifesteal and her odds just get better, lets see ashe try some shit like that with ahri, talon, zed, Quinn, draven, vayne, vi, jarvan, kayle, ekko, fiora, irelia, hecarim, lee sin, jax, or anyone else with some actual advantage against ranged, over half the champion pool

Fondling GemsJul 28, 20164 votes

OK I am just gonna quickly ignore every point you made here to point on one big old thing that shows how little you understand. ADC isn't the easiest role in the game. Period. In fact it the the most mechanically challenging role in LoL. The fact that you are unaware of this fact shows that you clearly have little to no knowledge of the ADC role and the difficulties it entails.

To put this in perspective, I would rather have all my abilities be skillshots than play adc. Xerath, a champ who has no targeted abilities and is difficult to position with, it easier to play than any ADC (maybe not graves....maybe) Do they do a lot of dmg with a rapid lock on resourceless ability? Yes. Can they quickly heal through sustained dmg? Yes. Are they the most focused player? Is their dmg severely limited by a short - mid range? Can they easily get one shot? Can a single missclick instantly kill you? Do they have little to no way to peel for themselves or even damage tanks with enough armour and thornmail without killing themselves? Yes yes and yes.

Before making arguments about what is and isn't healthy try taking the time to understand both sides of the argument and imagine a world in which adc's don't have lifesteal. Suddenly they have no way to live through teamfights which means that to be a relevant late game dmg source they need to either have high mobility and kiting potential, in which case you can't dmg them in the first place, or have all their damage frontloaded so they instantly burst someone in half a second before getting killed.

NiyumiJul 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ee6x8h8R,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2016-07-28T19:25:43.131+0000)

... ADC isn't the easiest role in the game. Period. In fact it the the most mechanically challenging role in LoL. The fact that you are unaware of this fact shows that you clearly have little to no knowledge of the ADC role and the difficulties it entails.

HA! HAHAHAHAHAHA! That was a good one! Tell me, what exactly is hard about automatically-aimed, unmissable, resourceless attacsk that automatically fire off more than once a second at extreme range with no drawback or risk involved, the highest item diversity, and literally no counterplay? What challenge does that present? It's all done with one button too.

Are they the most focused player?

Not always.

Is their dmg severely limited by a short - mid range?

Relative to 80% of the roster, ADCs are untouchable in terms of range. Only other ADCs are long-range mages can potentially beat them. And most of them just break even.

Can they easily get one shot?

Why, hello Sterak's / GA / Lifesteal.

Can a single missclick instantly kill you?

This is not unique to ADCs.

Do they have little to no way to peel for themselves

Ashe slows / R, Draven E, Vayne E, Trist R, Jhin W / E, Corki empowered W, Cait W / E, Varus R... Shall I go on?

or even damage tanks with enough armour and thornmail without killing themselves? Yes yes and yes.

You mean that item that one lifesteal item counters? Oh, right, no one builds it anyway. But hey, LDR / MR say that armor is irrelevant, and Youmoo's / Maw say it's even moreso.

Before making arguments about what is and isn't healthy try taking the time to understand both sides of the argument and imagine a world in which adc's don't have lifesteal. Suddenly they have no way to live through teamfights which means that to be a relevant late game dmg source they need to either have high mobility and kiting potential, in which case you can't dmg them in the first place, or have all their damage frontloaded so they instantly burst someone in half a second before getting killed.

Or, maybe, they have to play smart, position well, and use their team -- like, you know, mages already do. When an ADC wins 1v1s against the classes built to destroy them thanks to absurd lifesteal and burst, there's something wrong... but then, I'm not an F2P developer, and I care about more than just income potential.

If you wanna try and say ADCs take skill, please go to a mental ward or something. There is no skill involved in that class aside from staying awake long enough to finish a game.

Fondling GemsJul 30, 20162 votes

Here, I am going to search up hardest role in lol now and link you the first 5 posts. I have only read the first one but will link all of them and tell you what they say.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3349437

ADC & JG are hardest, 45 upvote post from quite a while ago.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FZO64ifL-what-is-the-hardest-role

JG at 333 votes, ADC in 2nd at 217

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/TnsZdOAA-what-is-the-hardest-role-in-the-game

JG at 58, ADC 2nd at 51

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1zya6j/hardest_role_in_league/

Mid and JG are the most popular for a switchup

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/39thin/pollwhich_role_is_the_hardest/

Puts it perfectly "mechanical wise: adcs decision making: junglers"

The reason JG is generally considered the hardest role in LoL is because it requires the most planning, the most strategy, and the most aware of all three lanes. Due to this almost every shotcaller in the lcs is a support or JG. Simply because their role is mechanically light, but strategically in depth.

ADC however always shows up 2nd because it is the most mechanically difficult role in LoL. Sorry bud, but considering 4/5 of the top LoL posts about the most difficult role say that ADC is one of the top 2 hardest roles, being beaten only by the most strategically difficult role that focuses not on mechanics, but rather on map awareness, planning, and tracking of objectives.

VekknaJul 28, 20161 votes

Abilities do drastically different amount of dmg even with the same build which means that certain champs make very good use of spell vamp

Why doesn't this apply to physical abilities and item 3812 ?

Riot tries to steer champs away from requiring one item to be useful

Except Akali and Jax ?

Spell vamp is fine, trying to balance a game around spell vamp is not.

But it's ok to balance around hybrid vamp item 3146 and physical-only vamp item 3812 ?

Lifesteal on the other hand is consistent across almost all champs [...] unlike certain champ abilities it can't rely in base damages to work and rather needs more damage to be effective it means that those who build it have to be very squishy to make effective use of it

Really? Aatrox Healing amp Caitlyn Headshots Ezreal Lifesteal applies to base damage and scaling on Q Gangplank See Ezreal, add crits Nasus Lifesteal applies to base damage, farm scaling, and AD scaling Riven Animation canceling scales lifesteal independent of attack speed Trundle Not squishy + kit healing Warwick Kit healing + lifesteal applying to base damage on R XinZhao Breaks all your rules. Not squishy. Lifesteal applies to base damage on Q. Has kit healing + aspd steroid + guaranteed crits. Yasuo Guaranteed crits plus lifesteal applies to ability damage on Q Urgot Huge mana shield = not squishy Yorick Absurd kit healing + lifesteal applies to ability damage on Q Shyvana Not squishy + lifesteal applies to ability damage on Q Illaoi Not squishy + kit healing + lifesteal applies to damage on W

Similar arguments apply to Evelynn Fiora Irelia Jinx rockets Olaf Quinn Rengar and others.

All of your rules for spellvamp are broken by item 3812 and your rules for lifesteal are broken so often by champ design that they aren't rules at all. At this point the only champs excluded from building "spellvamp" are ability-based champs who deal only magic damage and scale only off AP.

Literally every other kind of champ has access to the spellvamp effect with a wide degree of usefulness. There is absolutely no reason why spellvamp could not have been made viable, particularly since it was removed the exact same patch they were already reworking Vlad and Swain.

In fact, the answer to balancing spellvamp is already in the game on Yasuo's Steel Tempest, which is an aoe ability that only applies lifesteal to the first target hit. Apply that to spellvamp and it's instantly easier to balance because there is much less variation in healing between champs with single-target skills and aoe-tagged skills. Adjust the heal value accordingly, and it ends up weaker on Vlad and Swain while being more useful on literally every other AP caster in the game.

Fondling GemsJul 30, 20161 votes

Their healing is still consistent though. Ezreal, yes both his autos and Q give Lifesteal, but they are similar amounts and consistent. Aatrox gets healing every 3rd hit. But it is every 3rd, which is consistent.

Spell vamp: Xerath: High dmg but all aoe = same amount of burst with good healing while hitting waves, but little healing from fights. Old Vlad: Full healing from a single target short cd point and click that also has a base heal as well as healing boost from his E stacks.

There are VERY different healing numbers going on there than between say, an MF and an Ezreal.

Your final point is flawed in any case because you failed to take cdr into account. Also how would it deal with ticks or abilities that hit multiple times? Abilities are so varied in comparison to aa's that there is no easy way to balance around it. The reason Death's Dance is a functioning item is because comparably few champs/abilities have AD scalings and AD dmg that make them vastly superior to buying normal Lifesteal. If you look at it there are plenty of champs that can build it as you said. GP, Riven, Graves etc. They all can build it just fine depending on the situation. However they don't always build it and it isn't a core item on any of them. Spell vamp was meant to be an item like GA, where people could build it but it wasn't essential to their kits, however it just didn't work like that because it was too easy to abuse. Death's Dance however is almost never bought as a first or even 2nd item on any champ. Graves is in fact the only champ who consistently builds one every game: just not until later on and they buy it as a replacement for GA because they make good use of it: Specifically the bleed effect which lets them survive.

Like I said: The mechanic of spell vamp was a good one and never broken: However the abilities of LoL were never made to balance around it. The fact that Death's Dance is a weaker Lifesteal item made not for sustain: but to not get burst is why it works. Mage's Spellvamp healing was limited by their single target burst and cds, so only low CD mages who couldn't get burst and had single target dmg were effective with it: However beccause Death's Dance works with AA's it means that it isn't gated by CDR or base CD's, same with Gunblade. They work because they aren't a gated form of vamp, they are always fairly consistent healing regardless of what champ buys them (Baring things that aren't building to make use of it, which is a different point entirely. Tanks should not be healing as much as someone building dmg through any type of vamp item)

VekknaAug 1, 20161 votes

Your entire premise is that healing from magic abilities is too much burst healing, but healing from all physical damage or all damage is not. They are every bit a "gated" form of vamp in addition to healing from other sources. That's more healing, not less, so why is more healing less problematic than less healing? Makes no sense.

Spell vamp: Xerath: High dmg but all aoe = same amount of burst with good healing while hitting waves, but little healing from fights. Old Vlad: Full healing from a single target short cd point and click that also has a base heal as well as healing boost from his E stacks.

Right. So, like I said, adjust spell vamp to only apply to the first enemy hit. Then adjust the healing % as needed. Problem solved. It really is that easy.

The reason Death's Dance is a functioning item is because comparably few champs/abilities have AD scalings and AD dmg that make them vastly superior to buying normal Lifesteal.

Not really. The reason it's built less than normal lifesteal items is because Bloodthirster's shield is completely overpowered with crit rate being so high right now. Even Corki will build BT before Gunblade.

Another reason is because so many AD fighters have such strong kit healing that an extra 15% of damage dealt is not worth having compared to tank stats that increase the EHP from their kit healing.

Death's Dance is a weaker Lifesteal

Again, only weaker than Bloodthirster but stronger than all of the others.

Your final point is flawed in any case because you failed to take cdr into account.

Applies equally to DD and Gunblade.

so only low CD mages who couldn't get burst and had single target dmg were effective with it

Ok, so you're starting to contradict yourself. You say that DD only works because it's so niche. But you're also saying that spellvamp had to be removed because it was too niche.

They work because they aren't a gated form of vamp, they are always fairly consistent healing regardless of what champ buys them

Illaoi contradicts your "always." Her healing is almost entirely ability based and is absurdly spikey.

ÇhåryzårdJul 28, 20163 votes

Adcs generally have lifesteal to sustain them because their main source of damage is coming from their autos, whereas many midlaners have enough burst to just delete squishies right there if they land their combos

Zero Skill TankJul 28, 20161 votes

I get lifesteal, but why the hell Death's Dance exists, which is basically spellvamp, but AD only? There is crapton of midlaners who just burst to delete squishies, some AD champs can even do it from range, why they deserve to have spellvamp?

NiyumiJul 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Adcs generally have lifesteal to sustain them because their main source of damage is coming from their autos, whereas many midlaners have enough burst to just delete squishies right there if they land their combos

First, most mages do damage through their abilities. By that logic, they should heal through them.

Second, most ADCs can burst squishies outright as well.

ÇhåryzårdJul 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

First, most mages do damage through their abilities. By that logic, they should heal through them.

Second, most ADCs can burst squishies outright as well.

...Well no, because they won't HAVE to heal if they land their combo and burst down the squishy damage dealers...

And an adc only bursts down a squishy if they are extremely fed and the squishy has not built any armor or health and fails to land their stuff. When I mid I don't generally get bursted by adc's, it still takes them some auto attacks to finish me off. When I mid I play Aurelion and Ahri, and I'm not bursted down by an adc unless that adc is so fed that 2 or 3 autos kills me and I failed to stun them, or if that adc is Ezreal

Also like an above comment stated, adc's generally have most of their damage in the same thing, auto attacks. Midlaners have a variety of different spells and combos, no 2 midlaners work exactly the same way, so trying to balance something like spellvamp across many different champs that all work differently is very hard. It works way better on some champs than others, and this would cause certain champs to become too strong with it while others can't really utilize it.

Take Akali for example, all she needs is item 3146 and she's a bursting healing monster. Spellvamp works really well on her. If they were to add more spellvamp options and buff the stat for all midlaners, Akali would become incredibly op, because she has multiple gap closers and would constantly be healed.

Adc's get their life steal from auto attacking, which there are items to counter auto attacking in general, like item 3110 which slows down their auto attacks, also slowing their life steal, and thornmail which will deal damage to them when they attack, also affecting their lifesteal. There's really no way to counter spellvamp except maybe grievous wounds? But midlaners have so much burst, if they know what they are doing you won't have time to hit them before you are bursted down to low health or dead.

ApocalypsicJul 28, 20163 votes

I'm gonna call BS on sustaining through a six tentacle illaoi ult, unless you're like level six and she's level 12 or something. Otherwise that just instagibs ADCs.

NiyumiJul 28, 20161 votes

Well, I wish I recorded it. It was late game, everyone was full build. I was Illaoi with 350 AD and a Triforce (plus Sterak's). Pulled her spirit out, and ulted her entire team. Got off 4 casts of W before I died, and she walked away at 2/3 health (and then proceeded to go kill two more people before dying). Only lifesteal she had was a BT.

HyperiönJul 28, 20163 votes

Yeah, I call BS on that too. BT doesn't heal that much.

Axe2HandleJul 28, 20162 votes

Lolz I love these war stories "You wern't there, you don't know, I've seen things, Dark things..."

But then you look at the math and it doesn't add up.

Fondling GemsJul 30, 20162 votes

No no no, don't be silly, illaoi clearly just missed every skillshot other than E and R and was using W on minions. Ashe only taking dmg from her spirit getting hit by the tentacles, she was just dodging shit. JK but seriously if she was dodging 90% of the tentacles an only let say, 2 of those W's hit her and her Q was up plus 2 more minions or something for hurricane than she could probably survive that. Illaoi has fairly low dmg output or burst w/o her passives getting hits so a good player can survive Illaoi with low lifesteal.

I have survived an illaoi with caulfield's warhammer at 8 minutes with my boots only Nasus and killed her while she was at full health and I was at half. Her dmg is high but anyone who knows what they are doing and isn't being CC'd can take her on.

Also once I <Insert War Stories here> and I was all like "Boom" "Git Wreked Scrub" STFU You werem't there, you don't know, I've seen things, Dark things...

Sorry, I had to.

EcchiOtakuTMJul 28, 20162 votes

Spell vamp was toxic though champs who used it while it was good might have been "alright?" but champs who had in-kit sustain went to the EXTREME resulting in spell vamp needing to be gutted. Not to mention the item then became a dependant of certain champs so it had to be gutted again because those few champs synergized too well with it.

Them removing spell vamp from items was a smart move. Now it results in more sustain mages being able to actually have power and not be balanced around an item, meaning we can see future sustain mage designs like how we've already seen strong sustain mages.

And as it's already shown the new sustain items are much more fun, at least for me.

Lifesteal on the other hand has consistent users, although I wish lifesteal was a unique stat to prevent double LS item buy but otherwise all of it's users are consistent and even those with in-kit sustain don't get crazy just from buying LS since it's based off AAs only. Not to mention most AAs are relatively low range while they will come out fast most of the time if you play correctly you can get in range to stop champs from lifestealing.

Again though only thing I wish was that LS on items were unique passives to prevent stacking double items.

Fondling GemsJul 30, 20161 votes

Agree with what you said here except one point really. If Lifesteal was a unique stat it would actually be pretty bad for ADC item variation. Suddenly if you want to be a bit safer you have to pick between Bloodthirster, A core item for any late game carry adc other than maybe Kog. and Merc. Scepter, another Late game core item that lets you live long enough to do dmg. If you have both Merc Scepter becomes a very bad buy as its gold efficiency goes out the door.

Lifesteal is a good "Incentive" for ADC's to buy items. It is how Riot can make items look attractive to ADCs w/o making the item OP. They way it works is "We can add DMG, Crit, or Lifesteal" to make an item actually look good for an adc. if an item looks like a bad choice people don't want it, even if it has a good passive. Other stats can be added on such as armour penetration but usually aren't because those are the main reason to buy the item in the first place, so they aren't really a last minute stat to add on and make the item look like a good buy. So lets go over the 3 options and see why Lifesteal is usually chosen.

Damage: Adding Damage to an item is dangerous for a few reasons. One is that when items start hitting the 70 AD mark they begin to look like excellent choices for anyone who is building AD, not just people who want what else the item has to offer. For example Late Game Zeds often build Bloodthirster even though they hardly make use of the lifesteal on it, they just get it for the damage and a shield before they dive. Adding Damage to an item is also dangerous because offering too much offense and utility on the same item also makes it a win win for anyone who wants a bit of safety or a bit of dmg. On top of that it causes the item to synergies with other items that hive say, lifesteal/AS/Crit much better with only a little bit of a buff.

Crit: Adding crit to an item for no reason other than to make it a worthwhile pickup for ADC's isn't generally a good idea. On one hand it is good because it helps clarify the pool of champs who want it by only making it a good choice on champs that are building other crit items. On the other hand it suddenly gains a lot of power as a mid game item due to how crit giving items work. TLDR: It clarifies the pool of who uses it but gets a buttload of power.

Lifesteal: Lifesteal is the most balanced of the choices as by itself the stat doesn't do much. It needs to be coupled with AD to be effective or provides little in combat power, rather it allows the user to heal up between fights. It doesn't merge into people trying to stack up AS or Crit allowing the item pool to be clarified as to who wants it. Overall Lifesteal is just about the only stat that can make an item attractive to large numbers of AD champs w/o actually adding a ton of power to the item.

Plus removing stacking Lifesteal would cause a massive surge in power for AS Crit based ADCs due to the sudden irrelevance of ADCs that want to stack dmg. Realistically it would mean the tuning of about half the AD items causing a lot of trouble. Keep in mind any champ buying multiple Lifesteal items is giving up some DMG they could have had. It is like buying a weaker defensive item that only defends against sustain dmg, not burst and can be countered by any CC that prevents you from attacking.

ItankyouJul 28, 20161 votes

Just one hit that adc, ez life ez game

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yet, it's totally healthy, balanced gameplay for any ADC to build lifesteal and heal through any fight, automatically winning any 1v1 (even had an Ashe sustain herself through a 6-tentacle Illaoi ult when I had 350 AD), and for any other AD champ to just build a Death's Dance and be as much of a drain tank as Vlad is.

So, when spellvamp is a niche stat, and isn't really that useful, but deemed toxic... then what the hell does that make lifesteal?

But hey, whales gotta feel like they're good somehow, right? AD champs are generally easier, so they need to have more strengths and benefits.

champs that build enough damage and lifesteal to actually rely on sustain in fights are typically countered by massive burst

however champs typically able to rely on spellvamp are usually not countered by massive burst or can just avoid the burst altogether and tend to have other perks attached

do not compare the two, its kindof ridiculous

IcyPepperJul 28, 20161 votes

The defensive stat for mages is HP.

The defensive stat for marksman is lifesteal.

This way mages don't have infinite sustain (kind of why they build mana while supports build more mana regen, it's a similar philosophy), but don't get instant bursted by marksman. This also keeps marksman total HP pools low, allowing them to be bursted far easier than it would be to burst a mage, but rewarding them in sustained fights if they keep up the damage and avoid getting all-in'd too quickly.

LordGeovanniJul 30, 20161 votes

Life steal is supposed to be used on champions ad champions that take damage usually fighters to help them survive against superior spell damage of mages. Riot unlike any other game i have played has what to me seems foolish made it easy to build 100% crit on safe characters and still have space for life steal. riot wants to take the crit chance out of the game because it 'feels bad' to lose to a random mechanic but the mechanic in a healthy game is built around characters who cant survive long fights and would die if they dont quickyly dispatch their enemies or games that require you to max out crit in order to have a chance at beating it like final fantasy games. league seems balanced around ad characters in a constant fight for about 15 seconds and crit come along shits on everything by doing damage so fast is nullifies lifesteal and healing other champions would have gotten in a longer fight over time. Life steal is just fine on characters who have to put themselves into danger to get their damage done rather than full damage back lines that no longer burst when you jump on them with an assassin but can heal from1/3 of their max hp per auto attack to more than a half