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is this how every champion should be...

SwiftKitten88··1 votes·325 views

Warwick

now... as ou all may know im a nidalee main.. but after his rework and my other jungler of RekSai being trashedi needed a new jungler.

so with ww's rework i picked him up.

now lets start off with the obvious

ww has a braindead easy clear... and he is very simple to play. infact many times i can turrent dive like and idoit and still get a double before i die.

his passive is useful in all matchups. he really isn't hardcountered by anyone as far as i can tell.

but also using his E properly really is the difference between a good and a bad ww.

but enough of the obvious.. why do i think this champion is so good.

items and versatility

warwick has a kit and AD item can turn him into ANYTHING he wants to be

he can do normal bruiser with item 3748

if they have too mnay tanks he can do item 3153

he can run on-hit builds like item 3124 and item 3071

there is literally no end to how versatile you can make him, you can change him to fit what are opponents are doing, becuase the AD itemzation allows that.

when we campare this to my actaul main Nidalee

you can see the clear difference

there ARE no options item 1410 item 3100 item 3102 and/oritem 3157 item 3089 and/or item 3135 and your boots

and regardless of which of these you pick.. it onyl makes her survive betters vs certain oppoents. there is no change in playstyle like in Warwick , there is no "you can now kill this class of champion better"

regardless of how you build her... nidalee is ALWAYS the same.

i mean sure there is the AD build but that requires u to top lane... which without her full pounce reset until lvl 16 and the loss of % hp on her traps, is just frankly bad...

in season 4.. (back before role selection) i would literally lock in nidalee and say "fill except adc" back then i could play her top/mid/jungle/ and even support.. and my oppoent even though they could counterpick me easily enough, had no idea WHAT lane to counterpick me in

then in season 5 when they forced her into the jungle the removed all her abilities to lane. (the most important two which i just listed, but doubling the spear cast time didn't help either...)

now you can easily argue that havign this much versatility makes said champsion op. but i dont ever see anyone complaining about how "OP" warwick is, and after patch 4.17 when nid rework was finalized there was no hate on nidalee until, the "invisible spear exploit" of season 5. (and i don't plan on getting into that in this thread, but it WAS an exploit and was nearly impossible to do without knowing EXACTLY how, which was the reason why it took riot over 6 months and finally someone making a step by step reputation guide to figure how reproduce and patch it)

10 Comments

GhostOfTsushima2 votes

TL:DR

Yeah I didn't bother to read, was too long, and too many error in your spelling

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

TL:DR

Yeah I didn't bother to read, was too long, and too many error in your spelling

I'm sorry i keep forgetting kids nowadays can't bother to read anything longer than 144 characters or not consisting of emoji's.

i find it hard to actually provide a constructive post in such limited terms.

but clearly the desire to make constructive posts is not an issue for you.

GhostOfTsushima1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry i keep forgetting kids nowadays can't bother to read anything longer than 144 characters or not consisting of emoji's.

i find it hard to actually provide a constructive post in such limited terms.

but clearly the desire to make constructive posts is not an issue for you.

I'm not sorry your toxic and why you want everything to be your way LMAO

Hextech OwI1 votes

There is a difference between a constructive and well written post and a post that, despite being interesting, lacks most of the basic writing rules.

No capitals at the first letter of each sentence and "I" mostly written "i" - Check.

Many spelling error due to fast typing and laziness to correct them - Check.

Many sentences missing a dot at their end - Check.

I'm pretty sure that the downvote you got were only because of how badly managed your text was, not even because of the subject of your post.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

There is a difference between a constructive and well written post and a post that, despite being interesting, lacks most of the basic writing rules.

No capitals at the first letter of each sentence and "I" mostly written "i" - Check.

Many spelling error due to fast typing and laziness to correct them - Check.

Many sentences missing a dot at their end - Check.

I'm pretty sure that the downvote you got were only because of how badly managed your text was, not even because of the subject of your post.

i normally post it and then edit in the then edit in the typo fixes.. but when the first post i get is like "oh you made typos, and its too long". and I think to go "shut your face you fucking asshole and give me some time to fix the damn thing" its not exactly a short post.. i normally have to go over it 3-5 times to catch them all.

but i decided not to spend the time it in the original post after that comment.

i do this becuase there have been times where i try to do it mid post ans hit some button that delets a post that took a halkf hour to write.. so i post it first and then edit the typos out

Hextech OwI1 votes

i do this becuase there have been times where i try to do it mid post ans hit some button that delets a post that took a halkf hour to write.. so i post it first and then edit the typos out

You can use Open Office to avoid that and to correct yourself before posting.

I think to go "shut your face you fucking asshole and give me some time to fix the damn thing" its not exactly a short post.

This absolutely not a proper reaction, no matter the situation.

but i decided not to spend the time it in the original post after that comment.

This is laziness at this point.

Write it, edit it and then post it, in that order. Otherwise it is very unprofessional and you seem like a lazy person.

Zed genius1 votes

I don't think every champ needs to be like ww (with no actual counterplay)

Sancre1 votes

That is mostly because Nidalee is usually played as an assassin, and was incredibly toxic when doing that (half hp out in a sec because she threw 30th spear out of the mist and then jumped 4 metters to reach and delete the poor soul that got hit by that spear). No wonder she got nerfed after that. Warwick is way more versatile because his set has to be, he can't poke people, he has to commit and has no real way to escape out of his ult, that not many people realize can be used that way.

Warwick isn't op, but is much more versatile now, still you won't see him being used that much due to how risky his set actually is.

Just as a note, what differences a good and bad Warwick isn't the e alone, but the q and the r too, if you use q's dragging in a wrong moment you end up in the middle of the enemy team, that will melt you like cheese the instant your e is down (and sometimes even while its on), if you use your R too early you hit another champion, miss or see your ult being useless because someone had a cc you couldn't anticipate and thats enough to cut it entirelly. Even the W could be considered a tool to show that you really control WW, as using W in the right moment and place can lend itself to interesting mind games with the enemy team.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

That is mostly because Nidalee is usually played as an assassin, and was incredibly toxic when doing that (half hp out in a sec because she threw 30th spear out of the mist and then jumped 4 metters to reach and delete the poor soul that got hit by that spear). No wonder she got nerfed after that. Warwick is way more versatile because his set has to be, he can't poke people, he has to commit and has no real way to escape out of his ult, that not many people realize can be used that way.

there is so much wrong with this statement...

first off even at max cdr 30 spears would take 2 min to throw... and if she thew spears on cooldown she would be out of mana in 30 seconds. since you say "assassin" i assume you are talking post rework so after 4.10 and there was no way fer nidalee to have infinite mana when building assassin until they introduced ocean drag

as in order to NOT run out of mana, you woudl need either 2 oceans and to never enter combat (aka never HIT a spear) or one ocean and a blue buff

the only other way to not run out of mana on her would be her mid lane build she would need to have a item 3070

which as an early game jungler nid doesn't get because she doesn't scale, therefore any scaling items are not cost effective on her as they would give up your strongest point in the game in order to be just "ok" in the late game

also now would be even worse because it now require mana expenditure.. which sops her stacking it with pounce

so your whole "30 spears until one hits" is bullshit

next.. even if a spear does hit... she cant just pounce in in a 1v5.. nidalee is good at cleanup, at chasing down people who are low (similar to Warwick ) . not only does nidalee need to land the spear she needs to be in a position to jump in

which is the reason why losing the % hp on her traps make them pretty much worthless for anything but vision. because the chances of an enemy walking on a trap.. WHILE you are in pounce range.. and WHILE they are low and alone.. happens about once every 100 nid games.. and that is being absurdly generous.. seeing as i with over 1000 nid games i have seen it happen a grand total of about 3 times since season 5...

also nidalee is a jungler (now) and unlike every other jungle in the game if nidalee misses a spear... the gank is over..

its 6 more seconds until she can engage again by that time there is it highly unlikely that she will have an opportunity to get a kill.

i am actually having trouble providing references to explain this because your state is so false i dont even know what patch or nerf you are even referring to.

if you are talking about laning nidalee, then u always have vision on her... and you can always keep minions between you and her and she can never engage. she coudl only clear the minions with her pounce rests if she had a lead otherwise she would take free hits in melee form. when behind she had to farm safely in human form with ranged autos

now that thats over with lets get toi the next part

i am level 7 on warwick and nidalee.

if you are trying to tell me that ww is more versatile becuase he has to "commit" the then clearly have no understand of why nidalee was reworked.

pre-4.10 nidalee WAS an long range artillery mage and NOT an assassin. and yes she had no reason to commit..

and was pretty much Zoe , expect with no CC and with a heal, and wihout the ability to hit somoen with minion blocking them. frankly zoe took everything wrong with the old nidalee and expounded upon it.. so bascially Zoe is old nidalee on steriods.. but thats not what your trying to talk about...

but the point is.. why was rework becuase have a champion like old nidalee, or even worse.. Zoe HAD no commitment to a fight

that is WHY nidalee was reworked into an assassin.. because all she did pre-rework was throw spears from range

the enitre point of nidalee rework was to force her to commit

and yes nid spears still do a decent chunk of damage, but more than 50% of the damage her spears did has been moved to her kitty form takedown.. and she was given the ability to pounce directly to the target at extended range.. this IS commiting to the kill this IS going in as a squishy ap champ with less than 2k hp and diving in with no defense.. and sure if u get the kill and get out you can heal up.. but that does you no good in the middle of a bunch of enemy champion.. she has no damage reduction

nidalee has to commit to a kill just as warwick does. thats WHY she was reworked

and nidalee's rework and her being put into the jungle are completely unrelated and happened over half a year later. again this is obvious to anyone who during 4.10 to 5.1 with it or even bothers to read the patch notes, but i thought i woudl mention it because for some reason people still think nidalee's rework was what put her into the jungle it wasn't... it was this"

"nidalee can now proc hunted on jungle camps"- patch 5.1

also saying Warwick has no way of escape.. neither does Nidalee . you are as hell of a lot more likely to die diving as nidalee than you are as warwick, and warwick ulti sint even very good as an escape tool.. as even if the enemy is behind you your ulti will still hit them if you try to jump away if even a pixel of your models overlap.

and nidalee's pounce reset is only her full 70% at lvl 16, if nidalee is ganking pre-6 she is "Reset" down to "four seconds" which means your still dead

and ww can use his E to both reduce damage then then fear the enemies away

both Warwick and Nidalee have to dive in to commit to thier kills, the difference is that WW has a much better channce of living and still getting a kill or 2 before he dies if commiting was the WRONG idea.. where as nidalee just dies the instant she goes in.

and yeah if the enemy has less than 200 hp sure.. you can kill them with a max range spear... wihout going in..

but like i said earlier over half of nidalee's spear damage was moved to her takedown during her 4.10 to MAKE her commit

Sancre1 votes

{quoted}

there is so much wrong with this statement...

first off even at max cdr 30 spears would take 2 min to throw... and if she thew spears on cooldown she would be out of mana in 30 seconds. since you say "assassin" i assume you are talking post rework so after 4.10 and there was no way fer nidalee to have infinite mana when building assassin until they introduced ocean drag

as in order to NOT run out of mana, you woudl need either 2 oceans and to never enter combat (aka never HIT a spear) or one ocean and a blue buff

the only other way to not run out of mana on her would be her mid lane build she would need to have a item 3070

which as an early game jungler nid doesn't get because she doesn't scale, therefore any scaling items are not cost effective on her as they would give up your strongest point in the game in order to be just "ok" in the late game

also now would be even worse because it now require mana expenditure.. which sops her stacking it with pounce

so your whole "30 spears until one hits" is bullshit

Actually I never said that she threw the 30 spears one after the other, but during the lane phase, waiting to fish out for a land while ganking here and there, between base backs and so, the idea that she can actually get to throw up to 30 spears in 2 minutes is actually frightening, even with the mana gating, mana band should be really scary on something like that

{quoted}

next.. even if a spear does hit... she cant just pounce in in a 1v5.. nidalee is good at cleanup, at chasing down people who are low (similar to Warwick ) . not only does nidalee need to land the spear she needs to be in a position to jump in

No assassin should EVER be able to pounce in 1 vs 5 and come out alive. Nidalee is also good to escape after poking with the nuclear spear in late game, as she can easily jump walls in cougar form in a somewhat short timer thanks to cooldown reduction.

Literally thats what most high mastery nidalee do, at least in the matches i have been playing against those (that are almost extinct)

{quoted}

which is the reason why losing the % hp on her traps make them pretty much worthless for anything but vision. because the chances of an enemy walking on a trap.. WHILE you are in pounce range.. and WHILE they are low and alone.. happens about once every 100 nid games.. and that is being absurdly generous.. seeing as i with over 1000 nid games i have seen it happen a grand total of about 3 times since season 5...

also nidalee is a jungler (now) and unlike every other jungle in the game if nidalee misses a spear... the gank is over..

its 6 more seconds until she can engage again by that time there is it highly unlikely that she will have an opportunity to get a kill.

That depends, your traps also allow you to pounce, as far as i remember, and if your laner has a root or so, you can use that time to set it under them, but that requires a teamwork and timing a bit hard to achieve if you are going solo, so lets not count that and just say about the spear landing

{quoted}

if you are trying to tell me that ww is more versatile becuase he has to "commit" the then clearly have no understand of why nidalee was reworked.

pre-4.10 nidalee WAS an long range artillery mage and NOT an assassin. and yes she had no reason to commit..

and was pretty much Zoe , expect with no CC and with a heal, and wihout the ability to hit somoen with minion blocking them.

but the point is.. why was rework becuase have a champion like old nidalee, or even worse.. Zoe HAD no commitment to a fight

that is WHY nidalee was reworked into an assassin.. because all she did pre-rework was throw spears from range

the enitre point of nidalee rework was to force her to commit

and yes nid spears still do a decent chunk of damage, but more than 50% of the damage her spears did has been moved to her kitty form takedown.. and she was given the ability to pounce directly to the target at extended range.. this IS commiting to the kill this IS going in as a squishy ap champ with less than 2k hp and diving in with no defense.. and sure if u get the kill and get out you can heal up.. but that does you no good in the middle of a bunch of enemy champion.. she has no damage reduction

nidalee has to commit to a kill just as warwick does. thats WHY she was reworked

So, you say that Warwick's comitment and nidalees are the same? I mean, Warwick is expected to tank the enemy, and his most used build is bruiser-tankish, while nidalee isn't expected to tank, as a good assassin/artillery mage, she is expected to throw lances to weaken the enemy until she sees a real oportunity to go in and assassinate (like most assassin do), until the rework, she was able to go any lane, as you just said yourself, and be completelly safe, just throwing spears and farming until the enemy have to go back to base or she is out of mana, so no wonder she got nerfed, they overdid it after the jungle nerfs, i agree, but she had it coming, as she was really infuriating to face in any lane, just imagine Zoe healing herself over and over and with waveclear.

{quoted}

also saying Warwick has no way of escape.. neither does Nidalee . you are as hell of a lot more likely to die diving as nidalee than you are as warwick, and warwick ulti sint even very good as an escape tool.. as even if the enemy is behind you your ulti will still hit them if you try to jump away if even a pixel of your models overlap.

Yes, there are better ways to escape that Warwick's ult, but in a pinch, if correctly used, it can save your life, in that regard nidalee's pounce is way better to move around

{quoted}

both Warwick and Nidalee have to dive in to commit to thier kills, the difference is that WW has a much better channce of living and still getting a kill or 2 before he dies if commiting was the WRONG idea.. where as nidalee just dies the instant she goes in.

Thats why Warwick is built tanky, to be able to initiate if necessary, but if Nidalee choose to initiate going assassin or full ap, thats more or less what being glass cannon means, she is blown up in seconds, it would be too unfair for her to be able to damage from that range, deal that much damage and still being able to tank or get away so easily (Leblanc complex), there would be no counterplay for her

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