And my reward for my masterful positioning to pull off such a feat? I lose 20% of my health to minions and another 10% from a few enemy autos as I furiously retreat to a bush or out of minion aggro range. I was definitely outplayed.
Knight Devout42 votesBaited and outsmarted.
HateDaddy12 votes{quoted} Baited and outsmarted.
I beat her in ranked once
No I could not resist myself, I spammed it at least 50 times
Knight Devout10 votesThat quote will haunt her for life.
Pikmints13 votesEven though I know it's a quote, that one always irks me. Baiting is a subset of outsmarting. That would be like someone saying "I want you to both eat this food and chew it", or even "I want you assassinate that guy, and I also want you to kill him".
Lt Cuddles3 votesThis^, thank you...so much...+1
DeynaTaggerung1 voteshehe that's the reason it's quoted, because it's so stupid
HateDaddy4 votesHaha. "I'm going to kill you to death, bro."
Talamare13 votesThe thing that gave Melee champions a decent fighting chance was the fact that they had around 550600 HP at level 1, while Ranged champions had 400450
If ranged champions were caught at level 1, they would more or less be dead
Now Melee have around 550600 while Ranged have 500550
Junkο10 votesRiot hates melee, except for Lee.
It's really obvious
ImHerVoice7 votesriot changed base leveling. Now ranged top lanes are tanky AND auto win lane. YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY-falls off cliff-
Nicktoons6 votesThe fact that you could take on a ranged champion as a melee with out applying any kind of tatic just makes me cringe. So you just tried to step over every minion to get to your opponent and ended up being low when you got to them. This is the equivalent of bringing a knife to a gun fight and walking over a path of legos to get to them.
I hope this is just satire and you're making fun of someone else right?
metaworldpeace1012 votes{quoted} The fact that you could take on a ranged champion as a melee with out applying any kind of tatic just makes me cringe. So you just tried to step over every minion to get to your opponent and ended up being low when you got to them. This is the equivalent of bringing a knife to a gun fight and walking over a path of legos to get to them.
I hope this is just satire and you're making fun of someone else right?
Right now, especially in top lane, its virtually impossible for a melee champion to lane against a ranged top laner. Very few melee champions can survive and sustain through the poke. I recently played a Kayle top game vs shyvana. I felt so bad for her, I don't think she was able to auto me the whole laning phase.
Konidias8 votes{quoted} Right now, especially in top lane, its virtually impossible for a melee champion to lane against a ranged top laner. Very few melee champions can survive and sustain through the poke. I recently played a Kayle top game vs shyvana. I felt so bad for her, I don't think she was able to auto me the whole laning phase.
Getting real tired of hearing melee tops complain about ranged tops... Like the game needs to be balanced around top melee champs. Just because you think the meta is "tanky melee top" does not mean Riot needs to nerf all ranged champs or buff all melee champs.
The trade off is that most ranged champs in top are super squishy and can have a negative impact on the team comp (too much AD, not enough tank, etc) So all you have to do as a tanky melee is just farm and not bother trying to engage a ranged champ. Mid/late game you will be too tanky for a ranged to solo you anyway. As long as you didn't feed them 5 kills prior.
Melee top is literally the most brainless grind role I've ever witnessed. You just literally farm for 20 minutes and then walk through the enemy team like a diamond skinned potato.
You wanna know how you beat ranged vs melee? You get jungler to gank, then you have free farm and you're ahead in kills/assists.
But no, you want to be able to walk through all the AAs and go right up to the ranged champ and then pound them with your fists until they are dead and you are the greatest potato of all time. What you really want is to not even have any sort of challenge against ranged champs... You just want another potato melee top laner to lane against so you can both farm in peace and occasionally slap fight each other for 30 seconds before walking away to heal.
Talamare5 votes{quoted} Getting real tired of hearing melee tops complain about ranged tops... Like the game needs to be balanced around top melee champs. Just because you think the meta is "tanky melee top" does not mean Riot needs to nerf all ranged champs or buff all melee champs.
The trade off is that most ranged champs in top are super squishy and can have a negative impact on the team comp (too much AD, not enough tank, etc) So all you have to do as a tanky melee is just farm and not bother trying to engage a ranged champ. Mid/late game you will be too tanky for a ranged to solo you anyway. As long as you didn't feed them 5 kills prior.
Melee top is literally the most brainless grind role I've ever witnessed. You just literally farm for 20 minutes and then walk through the enemy team like a diamond skinned potato.
You wanna know how you beat ranged vs melee? You get jungler to gank, then you have free farm and you're ahead in kills/assists.
But no, you want to be able to walk through all the AAs and go right up to the ranged champ and then pound them with your fists until they are dead and you are the greatest potato of all time. What you really want is to not even have any sort of challenge against ranged champs... You just want another potato melee top laner to lane against so you can both farm in peace and occasionally slap fight each other for 30 seconds before walking away to heal.
I agree that the game should not be balanced around designing specific lanes
However, I also feel that Melee should have higher base health to compensate them being Melee
I would really appreciate a global +100 Health to more or less every Melee Champion
MrSexyHobo2 votesmelees do have higher base stats. garens walkin around with crazy stats at lvl 1 because he needs them to stand any kind of chance in lane
Talamare9 votesmelees do have higher base stats. garens walkin around with crazy stats at lvl 1 because he needs them to stand any kind of chance in lane
Oh, you really believe that?
I am going to list the base stats of 4 different champions, guess which 2 are the melee and which 2 are the ADC
578 HP, 50 AD 558 HP. 56 AD 551 HP, 54 AD 518 HP, 55 AD
Give up?
578 HP, 50 AD < ADC 558 HP. 56 AD < Melee 551 HP, 54 AD < ADC 518 HP, 55 AD < Melee
The lines are pretty damn blurry huh. The hard truth is, ranged base stats are right up there with melee fighters. Only like Mages and Supports tend to have below average base stats.
HateDaddy3 votesOh, you really believe that?
I am going to list the base stats of 4 different champions, guess which 2 are the melee and which 2 are the ADC
578 HP, 50 AD 558 HP. 56 AD 551 HP, 54 AD 518 HP, 55 AD
Give up?
578 HP, 50 AD < ADC 558 HP. 56 AD < Melee 551 HP, 54 AD < ADC 518 HP, 55 AD < Melee
The lines are pretty damn blurry huh. The hard truth is, ranged base stats are right up there with melee fighters. Only like Mages and Supports tend to have below average base stats.
When people say melees coast off of base stats, they refer to bruisers. Because bruisers no matter how you slice it are pseudo casters, even Jax and Irelia fit that bill. They don't pure DPS with crit and armor pen, so naturally the base damage on their abilities are higher because they depend on those abilities more than they do their auto attacks. Ranged adcs typically have lower base damages on abilities or simply lack rotation in spells (thus lower based damages on abilities) because of how they tend to build. So yes, of course bruisers will rely more on base damages. And when people who play squishy champions complain about base damage bruisers killing them, my reply is simple: base offense is beating base defense because we know adcs aren't itemizing past 1 defensive item. I would say the same for mages but they randomly get mr, armor and health galore thrown into their items with amazing utility and CDR. I better slow down, holy malvolene will come in here and tell me double ap should be the standard and that ap items suck
Bodkins Odds1 votes{quoted} I would really appreciate a global +100 Health to more or less every Melee Champion
Especially Mundo. 
/jk
metaworldpeace105 votes{quoted} Getting real tired of hearing melee tops complain about ranged tops... Like the game needs to be balanced around top melee champs. Just because you think the meta is "tanky melee top" does not mean Riot needs to nerf all ranged champs or buff all melee champs.
The trade off is that most ranged champs in top are super squishy and can have a negative impact on the team comp (too much AD, not enough tank, etc) So all you have to do as a tanky melee is just farm and not bother trying to engage a ranged champ. Mid/late game you will be too tanky for a ranged to solo you anyway. As long as you didn't feed them 5 kills prior.
Melee top is literally the most brainless grind role I've ever witnessed. You just literally farm for 20 minutes and then walk through the enemy team like a diamond skinned potato.
You wanna know how you beat ranged vs melee? You get jungler to gank, then you have free farm and you're ahead in kills/assists.
But no, you want to be able to walk through all the AAs and go right up to the ranged champ and then pound them with your fists until they are dead and you are the greatest potato of all time. What you really want is to not even have any sort of challenge against ranged champs... You just want another potato melee top laner to lane against so you can both farm in peace and occasionally slap fight each other for 30 seconds before walking away to heal.
Okay, I'll call my jungler to gank, meanwhile the enemy jungler goes bot, gets a kill or forces a back from my adc/supp, then takes dragon. good trade.
BlackRaven4 votes{quoted} Okay, I'll call my jungler to gank, meanwhile the enemy jungler goes bot, gets a kill or forces a back from my adc/supp, then takes dragon. good trade.
or the enemy jungler camsp me as well making sure i cant farm and there we go. a 4v5 simply because the enemy team picked a ranged top, and the jungler and her/him are smart enough to know how to get an easy win just because melees are melees.
AHeroNamedHawke4 votes{quoted} Getting real tired of hearing melee tops complain about ranged tops... Like the game needs to be balanced around top melee champs. Just because you think the meta is "tanky melee top" does not mean Riot needs to nerf all ranged champs or buff all melee champs.
The trade off is that most ranged champs in top are super squishy and can have a negative impact on the team comp (too much AD, not enough tank, etc) So all you have to do as a tanky melee is just farm and not bother trying to engage a ranged champ. Mid/late game you will be too tanky for a ranged to solo you anyway. As long as you didn't feed them 5 kills prior.
Melee top is literally the most brainless grind role I've ever witnessed. You just literally farm for 20 minutes and then walk through the enemy team like a diamond skinned potato.
You wanna know how you beat ranged vs melee? You get jungler to gank, then you have free farm and you're ahead in kills/assists.
But no, you want to be able to walk through all the AAs and go right up to the ranged champ and then pound them with your fists until they are dead and you are the greatest potato of all time. What you really want is to not even have any sort of challenge against ranged champs... You just want another potato melee top laner to lane against so you can both farm in peace and occasionally slap fight each other for 30 seconds before walking away to heal.
So melee tops are cancer because they just farm but melee tops are fine because against range they just farm
Are you ghostcrawler?
Oh and every game is Liss/Gnar/Mao/Irelia for a reason
Konidias3 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eYQolhtV,comment-id=0001000000000004,timestamp=2014-12-15T20:18:47.877+0000) So melee tops are cancer because they just farm but melee tops are fine because against range they just farm
Are you ghostcrawler?
Oh and every game is Liss/Gnar/Mao/Irelia for a reason
For one, I never call things "cancer". Are we in middle school?
Secondly... I'm saying top melee is boring and grindy because all you do is farm and tank damage. Armor items are cheaper than Damage items, so it's easier to just sit like a rock up in top lane and slowly grind for armor items. Being ranged at least means you need to be aware of your surroundings because you are squishy and WILL get destroyed if you don't always have an escape plan ready.
It's why I really dislike tanky champs... I mean how hard is it to just walk back to your turret when you get engaged on? You literally just right click the ground near your turret... what a great fight that was! Much skill!
What OP wants is to have great damage, the most tanking power in the game, and also somehow be able to trade evenly with squishy ranged champs. It's such a troll request.
Plus we have summoner spells that can help melee to close the gap. If you know ranged has burned their flash, you now can just flash on top of them and deal all your crazy damage and tank everything.
Or maybe use ghost and run right through minions no problem?
AHeroNamedHawke4 votes{quoted} For one, I never call things "cancer". Are we in middle school?
Secondly... I'm saying top melee is boring and grindy because all you do is farm and tank damage. Armor items are cheaper than Damage items, so it's easier to just sit like a rock up in top lane and slowly grind for armor items. Being ranged at least means you need to be aware of your surroundings because you are squishy and WILL get destroyed if you don't always have an escape plan ready.
It's why I really dislike tanky champs... I mean how hard is it to just walk back to your turret when you get engaged on? You literally just right click the ground near your turret... what a great fight that was! Much skill!
What OP wants is to have great damage, the most tanking power in the game, and also somehow be able to trade evenly with squishy ranged champs. It's such a troll request.
Plus we have summoner spells that can help melee to close the gap. If you know ranged has burned their flash, you now can just flash on top of them and deal all your crazy damage and tank everything.
Or maybe use ghost and run right through minions no problem?
And why do you think every top lane is a farm fest now? Fighter itemization is garbage so everyone but Irelia builds full tank and theres no point in going aggro because of teleport
Even if you manage to whittle down Maokai as Darius and maybe even kill him, he'll just keep teleporting back to lane, farming and outscaling you without doing shit
Then in a teamfight you get kited and he sits in the enemy team soaking damage far better than you
And you don't seem to understand ranged matchups at all so Ill spell it out for you
Why do ranged champs auto win lane matchups that arent Irelia while also outscaling them?
And no, you don't walk through the wave. You get crushed by the wave and peeled/dashed away from by the ranged top laner
crippler381 votes
never lose laning phase again, although this isn't exactly a fair solution it's very viable, he can out poke and sustain, as well as push the lane so far they can't do anything, if you're smart with wards you can evade ganks and if you're REALLY lucky you might be able to score a double kill due to the jungler or laner coming in when your ult is up, just pop one and be immortal for the other.
ApplyForAGrant6 votesI think it depends on what melee you are playing. Irelia and Maokai usually have no trouble against ranged.
Frikgeek6 votesIt's not like all melee champs get stomped by ranged ones. Riven, Irelia, Fiora, and Renekton are good examples of melees that can deal with ranged champions, even mobile ones. Seriously, have you ever tried to lane a squishy ranged champion vs Irelia? Once she gets a few levels it's almost impossible to stay out of her effective engagement zone. And with someone like Riven even if you get into range with 20% remaining health you'll just smash their face in with your burst, same with Fiora except that she can actually heal back up with her ult. It's your fault if you blind picked a slow and kitable slugger like Darius, Nasus, or the new Sion. It's obvious that you're going to get counterpicked by a ranged champion because almost no melee will be able to outfight you with all the free damage and stats you get.
Rinky Dinky2 votesRanged champs bringing you down? Xin Zhao says hello!
StuffedTurkey0076 votesUnit collision is way too OP right now. That's part of the problem.
asdbnmrty5 votesDid you forget to utilize your plethora of dashes or activate your loaded defense steroids?
FluxBound6 votes
the dashes and defense is unreal
not a starburst1 votesforgot ur 
and 
and .
Kobila20003 votesSo any older top laner that isn't overloaded with mobility should just disappear into oblivion?
Narasimha4 votesI mean, who were you playing as? Such things hardly bother 
or 
or even 
.
BastionKross3 votesThey were making some adjustments to 
to help melee champs not get poked down so much by ranged attackers, but I don't think anything came of that.
An item that has an active that makes your champion immune to ranged autos for a second or two would be pretty handy. Or maybe one that grants increased health regen if struck by a ranged attack similar to 
.
Madra2 votes{quoted} They were making some adjustments to
An item that has an active that makes your champion immune to ranged autos for a second or two would be pretty handy. Or maybe one that grants increased health regen if struck by a ranged attack similar to
It's doubtful that an item that makes you immune to ranged autos would be so cheap that it could be completed successfully while still in the laning phase... unless you were out CSing and/or getting kills... which would then just help you snowball faster.
Airmez3 votesOnly lose 10% of your health to enemy autos?
lol as if
Carniverous2 votesSome melee champs have enough poke to feel like a ranged champ. Gangplank and Panth both just chug potions all day and spam 4 second cooldown abilities. It can be a bother.
Tenrath2 votesIt's almost like they picked a champion (ranged) to exploit your weakness (melee). That's the way the game works, champs have strengths and weaknesses. If they pick Quinn first to go top lane, don't be dumb and pick Master Yi. Instead pick a burst mage and go to town.
"Top" is just a location it is not a class of champion. Have your support be Leona or have Jungle Nautilus or something if a tanky melee top isn't going to go well.
HateDaddy24 votes{quoted} It's almost like they picked a champion (ranged) to exploit your weakness (melee). That's the way the game works, champs have strengths and weaknesses. If they pick Quinn first to go top lane, don't be dumb and pick Master Yi. Instead pick a burst mage and go to town.
"Top" is just a location it is not a class of champion. Have your support be Leona or have Jungle Nautilus or something if a tanky melee top isn't going to go well.
I would be okay with this if mages didn't cry about talon and yasuo making their lanes hard. Because I'd say "hey pick a bruiser and auto win lane." Then I'd get "but no HateDaddy mages should always be viable and a small group of champions shouldn't have an inherent advantage over others by existing!" So why is that allowed to exist for shit like Gnar top? And yeah, I can use my plethora of dashes and gap closers to get to them, then they'll use their plethora of dashes and gap closers and random hard cc to stop me and we are back to square one. Being ranged vs melee is an advantage. Being ranged vs melee with mobility and spammable cc, welp. Shit. Outplayed son.
AHeroNamedHawke12 votes{quoted} It's almost like they picked a champion (ranged) to exploit your weakness (melee). That's the way the game works, champs have strengths and weaknesses. If they pick Quinn first to go top lane, don't be dumb and pick Master Yi. Instead pick a burst mage and go to town.
"Top" is just a location it is not a class of champion. Have your support be Leona or have Jungle Nautilus or something if a tanky melee top isn't going to go well.
Top is Gnar vs Liss Jungle is Lee/WW/Fiddle/J4/Panth Mid is too short for bruisers to fight in and they're outscaled by mages here as well Bot is obviously taken
Where do I get to play Aatrox/Darius/Trundle/Renekton/Garen/Shen/Olaf/Mundo/Gragas? Most can't jungle for shit and the ones that can are sub par compared to the ones listed above
I just get to go fuck myself right?
HateDaddy5 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eYQolhtV,comment-id=00110001,timestamp=2014-12-16T00:09:25.550+0000)
Top is Gnar vs Liss Jungle is Lee/WW/Fiddle/J4/Panth Mid is too short for bruisers to fight in and they're outscaled by mages here as well Bot is obviously taken
Where do I get to play Aatrox/Darius/Trundle/Renekton/Garen/Shen/Olaf/Mundo/Gragas? Most can't jungle for shit and the ones that can are sub par compared to the ones listed above
I just get to go fuck myself right?
The sad thing about this list is the truth to it - we consider Renekton, Trundle and Shen bad laners when their design is to sustain and lane forever. Part of it is scaling, the other part of it is who gives a shit about you after 20 minutes.
Even great scaling top laners like Jax, Nasus and Tryndamere never want to leave lane because the moment they try to team fight, a support presses one button on them and makes them useless. So if this is the fate of a hard scaling top laner in team fights, why bother playing anything else at all? And if these guys suck at team fighting as hard scaling champions, why bother picking them? Lissandra and Gnar are just two examples, there's several champions who can go top as a ranged laner and scale like a fucking God and no melee can fuck with them.
Knight Devout3 votesWell, at least Riot is trying to add ranged toplaners champion to that list.
Buffing renekton early (because at this point either you pick a ranged vs him or he'll eat your face ), nerfing Jayce w.
Lategame nothing changes, both will be trash and it will be a "beat the adf first" game.
Old Man Teeto1 votesI've actually found Gragas jungle works okay this season.
Only problem is you need your first blue buff so if they invade and you can't get a blue trade your boned.
AbodyHUN6661 votesReally? What runes and masteries did you use? I really loved him last season, but I was afraid to try him since he got beaten by mobs last jungle too.
Old Man Teeto2 votesFlat armor yellows, flat AP blues, flat AP Quints, and magic pen marks.
Fairly standard page if you were mage vs AD mid lane.
Start Q, place it at 1:51 (1:56 next patch) and detonate it when blue spawns, throw a second as soon as you can and detonate it when it turns RED. Repeat until dead.
Get W second, and remember to time your passive and spells for sustain. Use smite on Red buff for the heal and you can get both buffs without backing, but a little downtime to "heal".
9/21/0 Semi-bruiser, the Tank jungle item into Iceborn or Morello's then whatever.
AbodyHUN6661 votesThanks. Looks pretty similar to the one I was using. Gotta try it :D
