I understand the Rek'Sai nerfs from a competitive stand point but I can't help but wonder

HateDaddy··10 votes·1,464 views

Is Rek'Sai really unhealthy for the game, both competitively and in solo queue? She's certainly not an issue in solo queue, I've never heard anyone really complain about her in solo queue. I certainly haven't.

But even in competitive, is she really that much of a problem? Consider what you ask of these junglers in competitive play. Aside from farm heavy junglers who can simultaneously apply tons of pressure on the map (Nidalee), most junglers surrender a lot of their farm and Exp to their teams. Rek'Sai is one of the few junglers who functions decently without gold because of her tremor senses and ult, giving her a ton of power in an organized setting. Can she be blamed for that? The game barely allows diversity in the jungle pool in competitive play and I'm not see butchering a champion to open up room for more junglers is a good idea, especially when the champion has really healthy gameplay.

I understand Rek'Sai and Gragas are both receiving pretty substantial nerfs but if I'm being honest, Gragas's gameplay isn't nearly as healthy as Reksais gameplay is. His ult can win games alone, he's innately one of the tankiest champions in the game while having the ability to solo kill squishies at all points in the game without ever buying a single damage item. Through all of this, he can actually clear both the jungle and lanes very well. His highs are incredibly high and his lows aren't really that low minus a bad ultimate, but considering the rest of his kit that's not a bad trade off. Reksais lows aren't terribly low either but her highs aren't overbearingly high like many junglers are.

You should really be looking at designing more junglers to function like Rek'Sai where they are consistently good but never overbearing and so game changing just by existing that when they become decent, they become that overwhelming force where you feel you can do little to effectively combat them - good examples of this are junglers like Hecarim and Lee Sin.

I ge it from a spectator standpoint and opening diversity in the jungler pool for worlds but I'm really turned off to this game by these nerfs, I think Rek'Sai is by far the healthiest Meta jungler this game has ever seen. Your inability to fix the jungle (which you've improved each season admttedly) and some of the disastrous jungler kits that dominate it for months at a time (Elise, Gragas, Lee Sin and Jarvan) and crowd everything else out while being unhealthy designs, i think it's totally unfair to punish a healthy design like Rek'Sai for that. And before you flip out, I don't think champs like Lee, Elise and J4 are even good at the moment because I don't think they are but when they are good, they have some of the most oppressive and overwhelming kits of any jungler in this game and they are examples of what junglers shouldn't be.

In short, you should be trying to make the jungler function around kits like Reksais and have her set the bar for what a healthy jungler is. I know she has tons of power in competitive and she does present some balance issues in that regard but it pales in comparison to the issues that other long time jungle champs in the past have done to this game. Don't kill Rek'Sai, actually balance your champions kits.

17 Comments

2nd Chance7 votes

Gragas is without a doubt more unhealthy for the game than Rek'sai right now

Honestly, Gragas shouldn't be able to flash + body slam

Yet if they removed that, they'd have to remove that sort of ability from other champs too like Vi and whatnot

IRyzeForNidalee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=2nd Chance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eXvYaJQM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-16T21:51:22.315+0000)

Gragas is without a doubt more unhealthy for the game than Rek'sai right now

Honestly, Gragas shouldn't be able to flash + body slam

Yet if they removed that, they'd have to remove that sort of ability from other champs too like Vi and whatnot

Good. I'm sick of Shen flashing into my general area from half a screen away and me getting magically taunted.

Poske1 votes

While I Do agree that Gragas is easly the best jungler atm and has been best tank jungler for a while (2nd best is zac for those who are wondering) Lets not remove mechanics from him

Gragas is the only tank in the game which actually requires mechanics

CaptnJakSparrow5 votes

Riot doesn't balance.

They power rotate. Don't worry though. Warwick will be game breakingly OP in like two months, and then Nidalee/Elise will be pick ban for another 7 months come December until they get decapitated around June again.

The trends never end.

MonkeyMadness2 votes

The reason rek'sai is fine in solo queue and op in pros is solely due to communication. In soloQ, no one really talks so talks, so when rek spots someone with tremor sense, usually only rek knows about it (unless someone happens to be watching her). In pros though, every time someone pops up on the tremor sense, pings will go down and everyone will know where that enemy is, and you can coordinate ganks, tower pushes/dives, and global objectives based on that information very easily. So ya, she's a problem in LCS play, and because riot doesn't give a fuck about non-LC$ games, we suffer for their issues.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

The reason rek'sai is fine in solo queue and op in pros is solely due to communication. In soloQ, no one really talks so talks, so when rek spots someone with tremor sense, usually only rek knows about it (unless someone happens to be watching her). In pros though, every time someone pops up on the tremor sense, pings will go down and everyone will know where that enemy is, and you can coordinate ganks, tower pushes/dives, and global objectives based on that information very easily. So ya, she's a problem in LCS play, and because riot doesn't give a fuck about non-LC$ games, we suffer for their issues.

I understand this, I didn't say there wasn't issues with her competitively. But honestly, in competitive play you always have a fairly good idea of where the enemies are based several different factors that experienced top tier level players pick up on.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

you always have a fairly good idea of where the enemies are

True, but with rek'sai you have don't just have a good idea, you have exact position with 0 guesswork/prediction required.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Is rek'sia a problem in competitive? Yeah I would saying literally never being out of meta since her release has made her an issue. Since she is as overloaded as she is and not many other junglers can provide everything she can.

Her ult and vision isn't the only reason she is picked. She is manaless and has sustain which makes for quick and healthy clears. She also has a gap closer as well as CC early which makes her good for early ganking. She also does decent damage early despite building full tank. But according to these boards literally non of that is good enough for her to be ok in Solo queue. Even though she has a 6% play rate and a 50% win rate she still isn't good enough becasue she isn't out right over powered. And every bodies solution seems to be give her more damage while letting her remain as over loaded as she is which is what made her a problem on release.

So no Rek'sai really isn't a good and healthy design when she is so overloaded that pro players have never had a reason to not pick her no matter what the meta and having the stats of a balanced champion is perceived as weak.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Is rek'sia a problem in competitive? Yeah I would saying literally never being out of meta since her release has made her an issue. Since she is as overloaded as she is and not many other junglers can provide everything she can.

Her ult and vision isn't the only reason she is picked. She is manaless and has sustain which makes for quick and healthy clears. She also has a gap closer as well as CC early which makes her good for early ganking. She also does decent damage early despite building full tank. But according to these boards literally non of that is good enough for her to be ok in Solo queue. Even though she has a 6% play rate and a 50% win rate she still isn't good enough becasue she isn't out right over powered. And every bodies solution seems to be give her more damage while letting her remain as over loaded as she is which is what made her a problem on release.

So no Rek'sai really isn't a good and healthy design when she is so overloaded that pro players have never had a reason to not pick her no matter what the meta and having the stats of a balanced champion is perceived as weak.

How the hell is she overloaded lol

God, do you just choose to use buzzwords because you think they make you sound smart? Almost every jungle has innate sustain in the jungle. Almost every jungler has hard CC. Almost every jungler does decent damage. Her passive is strong and her ult is good. This isn't overloaded. She literally has the same thing the majority of the junglers have in this game and it's nowhere near as good. Is her gap closer better than Gragas? No. Is her knock up better than Gragas body slam/ult? No. Jarvans? No. Elise's? No. Lees? No.

a 6% playrate with a 50% winrate suggests a champion is balanced by the way.

Everything you've said is garbage, it's honestly not worth responding too. Typical gameplay "argh overloaded urhhh strong early game ARRRGH." Just stop.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Wow between this emotional comment and the fact that you are clearly jumping on the rek'sai circle jerk becasue you want up votes I shouldn't even bother.

Rek'sai has what a majority of junglers have in the game and is just as proficient as them, even though you say she isn't. She also has a unique passive and a strong global ultimate that currently no other junglers can match and yet you say she isn't overloaded.

I don't even get the point of this thread, well actually I do "rek'sai healthy up vote me please." But the fact that she has been a consistent meta pick in pro play for two years now is proof she is unhealthy. Pro players only play what is strong at the moment and can be abused and for rek'sai that has been since her release. They haven't found a reason yet not to pick her and there hasn't been an LCS split or Major tournament that she wasn't top 3.

The fact that there are also post on the front page of these boards saying what makes rek'sai good in pro play can't be done in solo queue is even further proof she isn't a healthy design. There is no other champion who could be a meta pick in pro play for this long while also being more relevant at that stage of play that would be called healthy.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Wow between this emotional comment and the fact that you are clearly jumping on the rek'sai circle jerk becasue you want up votes I shouldn't even bother.

Rek'sai has what a majority of junglers have in the game and is just as proficient as them, even though you say she isn't. She also has a unique passive and a strong global ultimate that currently no other junglers can match and yet you say she isn't overloaded.

I don't even get the point of this thread, well actually I do "rek'sai healthy up vote me please." But the fact that she has been a consistent meta pick in pro play for two years now is proof she is unhealthy. Pro players only play what is strong at the moment and can be abused and for rek'sai that has been since her release. They haven't found a reason yet not to pick her and there hasn't been an LCS split or Major tournament that she wasn't top 3.

The fact that there are also post on the front page of these boards saying what makes rek'sai good in pro play can't be done in solo queue is even further proof she isn't a healthy design. There is no other champion who could be a meta pick in pro play for this long while also being more relevant at that stage of play that would be called healthy.

Literally nothing youre offering up as proof for your claims that Rek'Sai is unhealthy is actually proof lol.

I'm not denying she's strong and one of the best jungler, if you read my original post you would know that. Being very strong doesn't mean it's unhealthy, you're equating it as if it does, another common foolish misconception.

And you wrote 3 paragraphs of garbage that is basically "well they circle jerk so I'm anti circle jerk!!" Explain to me how Rek'Sai is overloaded. Every champion has a unique passive just like every champion is a strong ultimate. Rek'Sai doesn't have good initiation. Gragas does, Hecarim does, Sejuani does. Kits have different strengths and Rek'Sai has basic strengths and basic weaknesses. After she knocks a target up, her kit is basically on cooldown. She makes up for that with global pressure, which is conditioned on her tunnels that can be destroyed by the way, and a strong passive.

You've yet to actually make a legitimate case that is backed by facts or truths as to how she's overloaded or unhealthy. Until you can come up with something that has some substance behind it, don't waste my time responding please.

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

Well if you wouldn't make comments in your own threads complaining about getting downvoted I wouldn't call your threads circle jerk threads.

And I'm offering proof you just don't want to here it. For example 7 out of the 9 patches she has received changes in are nerfs, and more are on the way. That isn't a healthy champion. When a champion can remain a top contested pick in professional play despite a patch history full of nerfs because of their kit alone, That isn't a healthy champion. And when you have a champion who's player base is constantly calling her weak despite her professional play and saying that these things can't be done in solo queue, that isn't a healthy champion.

Rek'sai has everything you can ask for and then more in the jungle role. She has three forms of mobility. Two vision mechanics one of which can be used through the fog of war, and the other coming off of a poke spell that will grant sight. She has sustain and hard CC. She is manaless., Fuck she even has a true damage spell and immunity to unit collision thrown into her kit for shits and giggles. I mean what reason is their not to pick Rek'sai, what can't she do in the jungle role? She has for the longest time been basically a required pick not only in pro play but in Master and Challenger as well. The best players haven't found a reason not to pick her yet, despite soon to be eight nerfs.

Again I get it, you got mad you got downvoted the other day and tried to hop on the circle jerk but its basically a joke to call Rek'sai a healthy design. A healthy design doesn't receive that many nerfs and can only be used efficiently by the smallest fraction of the player base.

HateDaddy1 votes

Wow don't downvote me Marc Merrill

Linna Excel1 votes

Maybe she's getting nerfed because her tremor sense is too good in worlds and will prevent interesting things from happening. If rekkers is on the other team, you'll probably play a lot safer than you would otherwise and that would just make for a boring show on the big stage.

Also, for the sake of argument, you've said that reksai is healthy but riot clearly disagrees. What makes you correct and them wrong? Maybe there's something overbearing about her in the world stage that soloqueue players never really see so they can't accurately comment on those aspects of her kit.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eXvYaJQM,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-16T22:40:33.624+0000)

Maybe she's getting nerfed because her tremor sense is too good in worlds and will prevent interesting things from happening. If rekkers is on the other team, you'll probably play a lot safer than you would otherwise and that would just make for a boring show on the big stage.

Yeah but majority of the time, in competitive play the whereabouts of champions by both teams is generally known which in itself makes the games very boring and stale. I don't think Reksais tremor senses adds to that a TON.

Also, for the sake of argument, you've said that reksai is healthy but riot clearly disagrees. What makes you correct and them wrong? Maybe there's something overbearing about her in the world stage that soloqueue players never really see so they can't accurately comment on those aspects of her kit.

As far as I know, they haven't come out and said she's unhealthy

jaymc11301 votes

Agreed.

PPPPPPPPPPPP2701 votes

I didn't think much of Gragas until mid season 5 and realize he's a problem. He went under the rug because of stuff like Tank Ekko. Gragas still have the insane mobility and damage that's easy to underestimate.

Rek'Sai beat the list of most overrated junglers in their prime IMO as a non LCS pick. at least. She beat Elise jungle with her release. She was OP on release for sure but the damage nerfs really forced her to only have her niche of tremor sense and good map pressure. Will ranked players ever see her true power utilized? Probably in high diamond but anywhere else no. Rek'Sai is not overloaded as her CC is fairly limited, damage is below average, and her mobility is best as escape than initiation.

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