Matchmaking just isn't fair (Grandmasters+ in normal games)

Śhunpo··2 votes·1,894 views

So on average I face Plat 3s to D3s, but then I have these stupid outlier games which just aren't fair for anyone as seen....here:

https://imgur.com/a/hXusGwX

In the game with the Challenger there was also a Master smurf, a D3+D4 and another D3 smurf. So you'd think that would be fair.....until you consider that I'm Plat 4 and my friends are Silver 1 and Gold 1 respectively. My Gold 1 friend was forced to play against a Challenger Jinx+D3 Yuumi (both of which were players who have played together extensively), while he had some random support who had zero synergy with him.

Case 2, Challenger Sylas with numerous Diamonds, again with my Silver 1 friend.

Case 3, Master Aatrox against my Silver 1 friend.


On average my friends have to face at least Plat 1s due to me, and even on secondary accounts they have to face high elo smurf accounts due to my inflated win rate (I'm really not all that great).

Now, don't get me wrong, matchmaking has its moments where it's nearly perfect, but on average it just ruins the gameplay experience for my friends which just isn't right. Silver 1s and Gold 1s SHOULD NOT be matched against Grandmaster+ players, let alone high Diamond players or even high Plat players. Legitimately this means that both they and I have zero breathing room to have fun as the game turns into a sweat-fest, wherein, if you don't pick a champ you're good at you just insta-lose, borderline feed and cannot have fun.

Rito needs to look into this, as normal games should be a fun, fair and casual experience for everyone involved.

7 Comments

HP Crookshanks3 votes

Normal games are terrible because they have their own mmr which is really silly. You can't even try new champions because you have to play against 1 million mastery points Yasuos and Zeds.

Śhunpo3 votes

No truer words have ever been spoken.....

Kai Guy1 votes

Eh. Ideally riot would splash some mmr from ranked over to alleviate some of the mmr gaps normal inactivity makes. Thing is trying to determine the right class interval for a bottom line is difficult and premades with 0 ristrictions create some stupidly 1 sided mismatches. At the end of it all players will wanna play with friends even if they have skill gaps and mm has to make a game when players are.

Haveing its own mmr is kinda necessary. Issue is there's a lot of uncertainty in skill gaps between trying a New champion and someone try Harding in normals on their best pick.

I don't have a solution here for ya on how to make a que for " learning" champs and roles that won't be easily abusable by players.

Śhunpo3 votes

Is it fair that I have to face one of the top 1000 players in normal games?

Kai Guy1 votes

Its inherently made to be a less competitive gamemode. So "fair" is not the main metric used for normal. If your assumption is normal are going to be fair matches your in for a bad time.

Far as improvement for normal experience. I don't really know of any that work effectively or wouldent punish players for being good at the game or just wanting to play with friends who have a skill gap.

I will take some time here. Lets go over it, Is there a better option?

Here are the ways I can think up and some of the issues/gains.

Splash MMR from Ranked to normal. I did bring up Splashing MMR over but theres issues with that if you don't have a good class interval estimate for some ones assumed skill trying something new. With out replacing it with something like teambuilder or Quickplay HOTS you don't have the ability to run MMR by champion. So... normal Blind might be improvable via reworking it, adding a estimation spash of MMR for a base line expectation built around recoarded data points on player performances on new champions. It wont ever be very accurate thou... I expect the returns for effort would be fairly low. It might lower the fringe case games you run into the top skill players but I doubt it would ever remove that owning to premade MMR values impact on MM when the skill gaps massive between the group.

So possibly viable improvement to overall match accuracy and quality, I lack data required to really try and gauge how healthy it would be,

MM Values Experience higher In normal Ques. You could put more weight on MM for Experience. Have it spend a bit more time or value # of games/uncertainty more when building games. That might lower smurfs in dedicated normal que players due to them traditionally being higher uncertainty due to lower # matches. It wont help with Premade issues on MM much. It also makes basically no impact on tryhard vs learning new skill caps.

Remove MMR From normals The removal of any kind of MM metric from normal would still result in you having to face that challenger player. So 0 MM is unfair especial as premade challenger players could just go pub stomp games and smurfs become eternally locked at their rank regardless of wins due to the removal of MMR.

We can rule this one out as just a bad option right? ** Ranked MMR = NORMALS MMR. AKA The Full splash.** Making it identical to Ranked MMR is pointless because it creates unfair matches at higher frequency's. Effectively current Normals MMR separates Try hard normal mains or higher MMR players who want to stomp on their mains into higher Skill brackets, In Elo's system they are called class intervals.

You just end up with a ranked que that's even more lopsided because any game some ones not being competitive they harm their team. And duo has a massively wider range and MM has to compensate for that. Just makes worse games. So its a net loss of match quality rather then any gains for players. Far as I can tell.

This is accurate to reality right?

break up friendships. ould prevent the class intervals you expect 9 to 1 odds to win from queing in normals under the assumption its to protect your "average" player. Something like that would look like Players above Diamond are unallowed to play normal. That will slow them down all of the time it takes to make 1 smurf. You know, like The Flex que does when theres to big of a gap in premades.

Then we just have a funky duo/flex hybrid with players completely RNG how well and how much effort they are putting into the que. I don't think it makes any quality gains overall... also smurfs sneak right by it.

So... Those are options I can think up. Only 2 of them might make any positive impact imo.

You got any ideas on the topic?

Śhunpo1 votes

I do have ideas, and they're simple.

Idea 1: Make it so that 2 divisions is the maximum amount of difference allowed for both teams. Example, I queue up with Silvers as a Plat and I face Silver to Plats, nothing lower, nothing higher.

Idea 2: Diamond+ players have their own MMR, thus giving them some incentive to make a smurf with a slightly lower rank to actually try to learn champions instead of steamroll playing their main champion(s) every game.

Side Idea: Fix queueing solo and queueing with more than 1 person. 5 mans should face 5 mans, duos should face duos, solos should face ONLY solos. It's simply not fair to get into game by yourself only to be matched against a premade Diamond+ 5 man who are all in comms practicing for the goddamn LCS in normal games.


I do think that Splashing MMR is almost a necessity now, or at least some experimentation with it, since normal games are atrocious right now and ALWAYS feel unbalanced.

Kai Guy1 votes

@1. And if Population at any given moment of the day does not support this. How long do you have people wait in a que? No games getting made is unlikely to be a viable option from a dev standpoint because the players whos skill results in them being unable to play the game is gonna be a frustration. How many people do you think are online any given hour in 1 given que on a server? You get that the Smaller the Server size lower normal quality is gonna be right?

@2. I don't understand this. Diamond+ Players already have their own MMR values, Are you talking about a separate Que for them? They already can just make a new account and learn champions or play their mains for funnies to pub stomp. Again... you don't seem to be accounting for MM job. Making matches, Its not a good system if it cant build a game. Like... If a D+ dude learning a new champion in your match is an issue for your games, that same player on a smurf doing the exact same thing would still be an issue? If a D+ player try Harding on a champ Is an issue for you in a game, that same player doing the same thing on a smurf would still remain an issue? I don't quite understand what your asking for here, I don't see any change in quality from how I think you meant it.

@3 Again.. Player population. Come one man, try a bit harder. Where exactly in your suggestions are you accounting for the fact we have a finite # of players at any given time.

Do you just want to close and shut down Ques if population size is to low to support quality? What's your solution, Provide some numbers. Do some math, think about the problems that your system faces and account for their solutions.

Were do you address the impact giant skill gap premade make, potently game endingly impact, depending on role matchups with your suggestions?

What do you do for your MM in relation to player population? Do you feel normal NEEDS to have hard caps on premade for it to ever see reasonable quality for "fairness"?

How do you fix the impact that Tryharding a main vs learning new stuff makes for equally skilled Players?

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