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So i talked with a master tier ADC main

Ahristocats··50 votes·4,387 views

he stopped playing adc and now only playing Talyah mid why?

https://gyazo.com/8de201a1fd701e03b5c0038d52005a74 https://gyazo.com/71b13db29dbee34b0c3dc87d5507ef57

So i'm asking: WHEN exactly are we going to fixe this? wanna know the problem?

the problem is THE FUCKING JUNGLE. Why aren't they ganking top but bot? because if you gank bot you can have: -2 kills instead of 1, this means putting behind 2 PEOPLE instead of 1 not only this but one is the column of the team doing 80% of its damage, but the other is the one that helps him/protects him and CAN'T have xp/gold meanwhile enemy support is getting xp/gold from kills -Dragon, which is just stronger than the older dragon since the older dragon gave gold which could have been reverted by the enemy team if they farmed more, new dragon gives stats that you lost forever and you can't do anything to get it back -Pushing the tower that has no fortification before 5 min making it 1/2 of it's hp then giving an advantage to FIRST TOWER that gives massive gold

Top:- ganking the most useless lane ever, and unless it's Camille, riven or yasuo(basically hyper mobile high damage champs) ganking top will have no impact against malphite/poppy/maokai -rift herald is useless except on people like trynd, and is incredibly hard to do in early game -fortification makes the tower taking like 10% of it's hp if you push -you only gank one target

how can we fixe it? The only way to fixe it is either making top laners having a bigger impact, by multiple ways (like first tower, or fixing rift herald)

or making botlane NOT THE ONLY LANE with 2 people, i think it's time to focus on making the jungle not mandatory Every single moba that exists can play without a jungler, but in league picking a support top lane with smite for objectives isn't possible the problem i think is that in league the jungler is an other lane they gain as much xp and gold as laners AND they have pressure

if we focus on giving them less pressure by making the jungle hard (meaning that ganking will be hard since you're low) or decreasing XP/gold to make them trade global pressure against ressources, i think we will have the 2/1/2 meta possible and move the polarisation of botlane into botlane+toplane (and midlane to an extend)

110 Comments

paperbIade26 votes

this meta is now snowball the bot lane or lose

ChíckenDaddy23 votes

The last thing I want to happen is make duo top ever happen under any circumstance.

Ralanr11 votes

Herald could just give a teamwide buff.

Best princess EU53 votes

defensive buff please, we have already a lot of offensive buffs

Melledoneus3 votes

Reduced damage team buff that gets a bonus if you're alone.

50000000000000001 votes

Some sort of anti-pick buff? That's interesting.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's actually an awesome idea. I have never heard that suggested.

Asayake 5150glow5 votes

{quoted}

Herald could just give a teamwide buff.

Loooool, they made it singular so people would go top more, anyone remember that? Guess it failed.

Ralanr3 votes

Yeah. Hence why I'm suggesting a team wide buff.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Hence why I'm suggesting a team wide buff.

Would be nice, although it'd have to be a bit niche-y to set it apart from the elemental drakes.

DarkRitual3 votes

Every third wave, a Voidling Minion is spawned in addition to that wave's normal minions. Looks different from Zz'Rot/Malz voidlings. Acts like a normal melee minion. Worth half the normal melee minion gold.

It's effecitvely offensive, and defensive. If left alone, your waves will push in automatically. This protects you from passively losing lanes while focusing objectives crossmap. This is also a small boost to splitpusing strategies, since you get an extra minion every few waves. Making it every 3rd instead of 2nd removes the ability to stack it early onto canon minion waves.

50000000000000001 votes

Going off of this idea, what if Rift Herald spawned multiple times, with a short duration of that buff? Stronger and/or more minions for 2 waves, maybe?

DarkRitual1 votes

Herald used to spawn multiple times before Baron with a lower duration buff. It was definately weaker, and still not taken over Dragon.

What might work a little, would be if Herald being taken previously gives some sort of buff as part of Elder Drake's bonus. Perhaps it grants the same buff but teamwide (possible losing the clause of not having allies near as well).

Glory ln Death9 votes

It should give a buff only to those who assisted in killing it. It would be a major team objective, since sneaking it would be ineffective.

It would actually give the ADC a reason to leave bot lane. Maybe turn the meta into duo-mid instead of duo-bot.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Or atleast a buff that stays usefull then grouping with the team...

Hige9 votes

the solution is simple, make the game 6v6 because there is no way that after making the jungle the 4th lane they'll take importance away from it

RavenMagus9 votes

Botlane also has the bonus of being where the ADC is, and ADCs are so incredibly powerful lategame that if you get yours snowballing and put the other ADC in the dirt, then you just plain win the game off of them alone.

Gregor Gysi9 votes

YEAH HOW ABOUT WE MAKE TOPLANE NOT BE THE LEAST IMPACTFUL ROLE IN THE WHOLE GAME FOR ABOUT 3 SEASONS?!!

Really, you make me so angry OP. There has been a post on reddit how toplane is the least common main role among challengers and it's generally known that toplane has the least impact. So you rightfully realized the problem and THEN DECIDED TO SAY THAT IT'S OK FOR TOPLANE TO BE THE WORTHLESS PILE OF TRASH THAT MIGHT ASWELLsaddsdasdasfasd

JESUS! MAKE TOPLANE GREAT AGAIN! SPREAD THE MESSAGE AND TAKE DOWN THOSE FILTHY OTHER ROLES IN THE SOUTH!

DarkRitual8 votes

"In an effort to stop top lane from being the least impotant, we have decided to remove the top lane from the map completely, expand the jungle above mid lane, and move the dragon spawn up there."

TeCoolMage8 votes

move tower vulnerability from bot lane to top lane

Lane swaps don't happen as the map is still asymmetrical

Top lane actually has a use in the map

Bot lane is no longer the #1 lane

Investing too much on first blood gold for top lane sacrifices dragon and vice versa. No more 4 man diving bot lane to eat your cake and have it too

Automated Riven4 votes

Thats probably a good Idea but I would like to see a buff to rift harold that acutally feels impactful. Maybe allowing it to be used if You play with your team instead of being relegated to splitpushing if you do take it

Sire Hippington7 votes

you forgot one more important reason for ganking bot: Getting your marksmen ahead while setting the opposing one behind. Getting your adc fed(unless he REALLY is a moron) is still the best way to win a game as they still scale better than any other class in the game, so getting aditional resources for your adc gives you a pretty high advantage as a team(provided you actually play as team, which sadly isn't given)

Also, fortification is quite overrated. Few gangbangs happen befor the 5 min mark, and post that, all towers take the same damage.

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

I've only played 3 mobas LOL, SMITE, and HOTS. SMITE has a mandatory jg. HOTS doesn't. HOTS is also shit.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

I've only played 3 mobas LOL, SMITE, and HOTS. SMITE has a mandatory jg. HOTS doesn't. HOTS is also shit.

Played DotA (The real one) , HoN, Strife, LoL and another that could barely be classified as MOBA (Solstice Arena).

They all had jungles except the last one, you are right, I never noticed that all the MOBAs that are even decently designed have jungle.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

I really don't don't know what OP is thinking. No jg is completely absurd if you think about it for more than a few seconds. League will always have a jg. just like it will always have a top mid and bot lane. riot would have to make a completely different map and then re balanced ALL the champs around said map. Omg i'm getting annoyed making these points cause how obvious they are lol

Ahristocats2 votes

you don't know what i'm talking about, because you didn't play other mobas

{quoted}

League will always have a jg.

Yes, if riot continues to make it mandatory then yes we will always have a "jg"

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

i really don't wanna have to make these arguments because how obvious they are, but if there is no jg the what is gonna happen to the 50% of the map that makes up the jg? Of the top 4 mobas (LOL, DOTA 2, SMITE, and HOTS) 3 of the 4 have a jg(Hots is a casual shit storm that is played by almost 100% different rules than other mobas). i've played all of them, but only a little bit of DOTA 2(didn't like it and quit almost right away). The jg role is a catalyst for plays to be made. without a jg the game becomes static, almost separate games in the lanes. If lanes don't have to worry about jg then it becomes just about the 1v1 or 2v2. removing makes about as much sence as removing mid, top, or bot lanes. like seriously! how is riot "continuing to make it mandatory"?! ffs there is gold and exp in the jg so if someone doesn't get it then the team will ALWAYS be behind against a team that does. It's almost the exact same as if you didn't send anyone mid. aside from the tower, its a ton of exp and gold that is being wasted.

Ahristocats2 votes

I'm sorry but Dota and HoN have 90% of the time 2 supports and a carry, making a trilane working

this works because they have deny

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eWAmVf0g,comment-id=001000000001,timestamp=2016-12-31T09:22:24.140+0000)

I'm sorry but Dota and HoN have 90% of the time 2 supports and a carry, making a trilane working

It's been awhile since I've played HoN or DotA but I remember trilaning was pretty shit even at the best of times.

Unless you are running a super hyper carry and are extremely confident that you won't get steamrolled early, it almost always failed.

Ahristocats1 votes

it all makes sens now

cause trilane is the most played meta, the 2nd support either, gank the hard lane, or pull the creep of the easy camp into the lane to deny creeps.

there is only one jungler currently in the competition and his name is Axe

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eWAmVf0g,comment-id=00100000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-31T10:18:50.861+0000)

cause trilane is the most played meta

Well things have certainly changed.

I'm glad I abandoned such terrible games.

FourVsFive3 votes

First blood tower needs to be removed I think. It does nothing good for the game. Considering how fast they fall now.

AtheosisX3 votes

The issue to me is that Dragon is too good and Rift Herald is trash. That alone heavily shifts the balance of the game to bot. There's just too much incentive to hang out in the lower half of the jungle right now.

Leetri2 votes

Have people decided on if ADCs are OP or worthless yet? One day they're so OP they win the game on their own, the other they're so useless they don't matter until 50 minutes into the game. It's kinda amazing how much the boards flip back and forth on that. At least on the subreddit (from what I've seen at least) they all agree that ADCs are bad.

Ahristocats1 votes

adc are strong, and that's why diving bot is a thing

Cosmic Warper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eWAmVf0g,comment-id=00290000,timestamp=2016-12-31T22:09:16.338+0000)

adc are strong, and that's why diving bot is a thing

No, that's not why diving bot is a thing. Diving bot is a thing because of first tower gold and due to the fact that if you succeed a dive bot lane you get twice the gold over a solo lane gank and can get dragon after. It's not because of the power of marksmen...

PyroLux1 votes

I might be a little biased because im a jungle main, and yes the jg is pretty broken atm, but why should the jungler be forced to be 2 levels down everyone else? Why aren't we allowed to carry, much like how the other lanes can carry?

Treyhova3 votes

Im not saying you have to be below everyone in levels, but a choice between farming or ganking so the jungler isn't 2 levels ahead of everyone would be nice, while also not hurting the jungle at the moment. The jungler should never be able to outlevel the midlaner on a regular basis.

Vexus2 votes

because you are the jungle, you have little to no pressure when farming and can just go anywhere at your leisure. you should NOT be as powerful as you are at the moment

Keti1 votes

ADCs complain when they can't carry every single one of their games with minimal the enemy team can do about them.

The jungle is in a pretty bad state though, the high reward/high respawn timer camps mean that failed ganks just aren't as punishing as they used to be, especially for high early dmg jgs. Lee sin can fail ganks repeatedly early and not fall behind, then snowball off of gank 5 which finall works.

Vexus1 votes

adc is the carry tho , it's literally in their name

All Skillzz5 votes

{quoted}

adc is the carry tho , it's literally in their name

it would Hecarim be a shame ifVi That fed adc could do anything.

Hige1 votes

this is the second post I make in this thread, sorry about that.

In Paragon, a game that's more similar to smite, there's a chance to have 2 junglers because each quadrant of the map is a full jungle on itself, of course this would inquire in heavy changes to the map or... increasing the difficulty on each quadrant, imagine current red buff with 4 mini surrounding it, you would indeed gain more experience but you would also take a lot longer to kill them, pretty much the way raptors are, they hurt a lot but they also give tons of experience.

If all the camps were like that, there would be space for a second jungler and no support, which would be weird and probably not good for the real support mains but what if they could still play their champions on the "second" jungle?

Best princess EU1 votes

you're going to destroy marksmen if you do this, they can't lane in 1v1.

statelesskiller2 votes

why not?

Treyhova1 votes

Mostly due to the long term balancing of the marksmen kit around the fact that they have a support.

Also, Paragon is a game where you have to aim.

statelesskiller1 votes

but then if neither of them have a support, they are both at the same disadvantage, which then opens up the game to be either "okay so since both ADC's are still like that its balanced," or even better if you ask me, adc in bot lane will for once stop being a required meta pick

it works either way just fine

Aptest1 votes

the marksmen and support "together" game-play basically takes agency from two players, but only one of them is rewarded for the loss of agency with power. if marksmen no longer need support babysitting than support is free to do more interesting things in the game which is positive: and the same is true for the marksman player.

the only real loss is for the various players who like to play champions designed to beat the living daylights out of adcs which is more or less 70% of the player base from assassins to bruisers and divers and "tanks" (hecarim baby? what are you?).

whereas in the absence of a "cripple" class that they could zerg and kill they will have to be re balanced to be in an environment where every opponent potentially fights them as an equal and defeats them.

Umbra Ionia1 votes

And this sh*t happens when you balance the game around some player in LCS. I pref the lane swap in LCS less snowball in SoloQ.

GigaPube2 votes

i legit developed an aneurysm from this cringe. then i read your name and it ruptured and im dead

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