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Mobility Creep should be looked at during pre-season in addition to Damage

Nausicäa ··49 votes·14,392 views

Starting with mobility runes that should in my opinion be straight up deleted. Runes that give movespeed such as Predator, Relentless Hunter and Celerity. Regardless of how good or bad champions like Hecarim are in the current meta, should a build that involves running at you with 600+ movespeed and one shotting you really be supported? Giving already highly mobile champions more move speed serves only to remove counterplay and increase frustration.

Mobility Runes mainly benefit champions that are already highly mobile giving them insane move speed and engage potential on immobile champions. In the build up to last pre season Riot showcased Predator as something to be taken on champions like Talon. Why would you create a rune specifically to add more mobility to a champion who already has a dash, and movespeed increase and the ability to jump over walls???? This shows that the intent of this Rune was simply to make mobile champions more mobile. Talon as it turns out does not usually take Predator, and its uses are just a bunch of niche/abuse cases allowing for cheesey engages/one shots.

Mobility Runes are usually not taken by and considerably less effective on immobile champions(%move speed increase is lower with lower movespeed giving little benefit) so their existence is essentially just to make champions with gap closers stronger.

Second, some champions with high mobility need trade offs. Why do some high mobility champions sometimes have more damage,cc and more innate durability than immobile champions?

37 Comments

Melledoneus19 votes

Riot: We've decided to take a look at mobility creep. Our approach is targeting a few problem champions in order to bring down some of the outliers.

Community: Huh, that's actually a relly good idea. So, who-

Riot: Shen, Sejuani, Urgot, Ornn, and Lissandra no longer have dashes. There will be no compensation buffs.

Community: Oh god we're all screwed.

Beacon Academy1 votes

Bad for you.

Good for me.

Veigar

VG Crows12 votes

I'm with you on this 100%. Mobile champs don't pay nearly enough right now for having insane mobility in their kits comparing to immobile champions. It's most seen in comparison with mages/assassins,where the latter group doesn't get nerfs to compensate their ridiculous cheese. However,more than just rune deletion/changing would be required. As it stands,the game is already hugely revolved around mobility. There is more of it than ever before. You'd need to adjust mobile champions' kits as well as runes to put them on par with immobiles,or buff the latter. Right now,immobility is a huge drawback and I despise Riot for making the game revolve around dashes and blinks so heavily there is no way back from it. Especially because mobile cancer dominates this game and nothing is being done about it.

Axzarious3 votes

[{quoted}](name=TrueMortal v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePGyPEUl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-09-30T09:50:14.191+0000)

I'm with you on this 100%. Mobile champs don't pay nearly enough right now for having insane mobility in their kits comparing to immobile champions. It's most seen in comparison with mages/assassins,where the latter group doesn't get nerfs to compensate their ridiculous cheese. However,more than just rune deletion/changing would be required. As it stands,the game is already hugely revolved around mobility. There is more of it than ever before. You'd need to adjust mobile champions' kits as well as runes to put them on par with immobiles,or buff the latter. Right now,immobility is a huge drawback and I despise Riot for making the game revolve around dashes and blinks so heavily there is no way back from it. Especially because mobile cancer dominates this game and nothing is being done about it.

I'm not sure if it's a symptom of the huge amounts of damage we have flying around, but I don't think champions are really paying the price for mobility that they should be. Compare champions who have mobility to those who don't? They often have superior base damage, ratios, or resource costs. If an Assassin like Ekko can keep up or clear just as fast as a mage like Lux with a single skill that also has a lower cooldown, lower mana cost, and higher damage? Being able to wallhop is also pretty huge.

Some of these new champions like Camille make Riven look modest in comparison.

Beatrice falls9 votes

Adding the fact that there are some choices regarding mobility that don't even make sense Zoe using a summoner spell giving her a huge burst of movement speed, even if it's her own spell (why the fuck is this a thing) item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 item 3095 Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin Hail of blades, yeah "immobile marksman" my ass

HaIlMonitor4 votes

I get really annoyed when people say move speed isnt mobility. Look at hecrim, he isn't immobile, but by most peoples definition he is only immobile until level 6 and he gets his ult.... Same with Rammus

KnifeCat7 votes

They're not even looking at damage, they recently stated that they were now content with the state of damage, after the recent nerfs to electrocute.

So i doubt they'll even think about mobility creep.

ÈvilMorty7 votes

Look at it this way Anivia damage, cc. Trade off: immobile, squishy, mobility renders her kit almost useless Irelia damage, cc, durability, mobility, unique form of cc only she has (disarm) trade off: Almost none besides cc shuts her down but cc shuts down every champion.

Example 2: Brand Damage, cc. Trade off: Immobile, squishy, skill shot reliant , kited easily Camille damage, cc, invulnerability, mobility out the ass, more durable then she should be. Trade off: what fuckin trade off?

Example 3: Velkoz damage, true damage, cc trade off, immobile squishy, skill shot reliant, can be kited easily Ekko cc, damage, mobility, ult that not only is too forgiving but heals and does a fuck ton of damage. Trade off: Kinda squishy

Do you see the trend riot? Immobile champs have clear trade offs for their strengths which is how it should be but these champions are punished too much for it by newer or newer reworked champions that get everything in their kits while giving up very little to practically nothing in exchange.

Captain obvious conclusion: Mobile champs need to give up a little more of their kits plain and simple.

Allkh4 votes

You forgot the most obvious case of an immobile champion with way too much trade offs Mordekaiser . Strength: damage. Trade offs: Bad range, no mobility(+ worst base ms in the game), no cc, squishy, worst base stats in the game.

Technically he should have the highest damage output in the game but it's not even the case.

ÈvilMorty1 votes

I honestly forgot mord was even a champion because i never see him ever. However you forgot the one othe strength mord has, sustain

Allkh2 votes

Mord indeed has very good sustain but he lacks the tankiness of others juggernaut. Overall mord just feels like an outdated champ that doesn't belong in this game anymore and he hasn't seen any changes for 3y so he isn't really the best example for what you were trying to show. We'll see if riot finds out the problem about him for his rework i guess.

Blåbæret1 votes

You say that, but Morde mains have good win rates. The champion is pure cancer in lane anyway so let's not act as if the champ is healthy for the game in his current state.

RyzeTheSmurfMage1 votes

That's why Riot stated he'll get reworked in the next roadmap.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

I dont want to disagree or anything but , you cant compare irelia's and camille's cc with that of an average mage. Irelia's and camille's cc (stun) lasts for 0.75 second compared to anivia's 1.1-1.5 sec.

LTK KoRo2 votes

Also, there's one very important thing.

Irelia and Camille need to be on your face to deal any kind of damage.

Anivia and Brand can kill you from +600 range, while Vel'koz can kill you from a screen away.

I have no idea why mages and ADCs never take range as a strength, while range is most important strength in the game. There's a reason why Tristana or Kog are the hypercarries, while guys like Darius or Camille aren't.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Which is why irelia and camille are have more resistances than ranged champs, and their kits are equipped with tools to help them survive. And you are right, range is indeed a strength. However mages have a bit of unreliable range. So to be fair, as mage, your strength when it stems from your range is very unstable. Unreliable spells are the most common. Try landing lux's or zigg's q at max range. Its almost impossible. Even xerath's q is difficult to land if the enemy is constantly on guard. So yeah nowadays, mages having range means very little since they triple pay their range through no mobility (except ziggs for some flying reason) , squishyness and unreliable spells.

Ryusaether1 votes

You forgot to point out a thing though: every immobile you mentioned deals massive AoE dmg, not just single target, and have good zone controls and AoE CCs as well (except brand).

I know it's frustrating to see these champions dashing at you avoiding everything etc, but each champ has their tools and strenghts. In there is a proper engager, who do you think will thrive more in a good ex malphite/amumu ult? The sngle Target camille or the god of AoE Brand? Should they feel frustrated about not dealing as much AoE dmg as Bran/Vel can? I don't think so, it's the teadeoff. Same goes for AoE beasts not having insane mobility in most cases.

I know the feel, trust me. Pyke aside, I main only immobile champs, but that's because I like to dish out big chunks of dmg on a lot of targets and aim my skillshots for zone denial and things like that, instead of jumping on people.

Should mobile champs trade a bit more dmg? Maybe, maybe not, but keep in mind that their dmg is still mostly single target.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

{quoted}

Look at it this way Anivia damage, cc. Trade off: immobile, squishy, mobility renders her kit almost useless Irelia damage, cc, durability, mobility, unique form of cc only she has (disarm) trade off: Almost none besides cc shuts her down but cc shuts down every champion.

Example 2: Brand Damage, cc. Trade off: Immobile, squishy, skill shot reliant , kited easily Camille damage, cc, invulnerability, mobility out the ass, more durable then she should be. Trade off: what fuckin trade off?

Example 3: Velkoz damage, true damage, cc trade off, immobile squishy, skill shot reliant, can be kited easily Ekko cc, damage, mobility, ult that not only is too forgiving but heals and does a fuck ton of damage. Trade off: Kinda squishy

Do you see the trend riot? Immobile champs have clear trade offs for their strengths which is how it should be but these champions are punished too much for it by newer or newer reworked champions that get everything in their kits while giving up very little to practically nothing in exchange.

Captain obvious conclusion: Mobile champs need to give up a little more of their kits plain and simple.

Alright, Ekko is one of the slower Melee champs at a joke 340 MS. There are ranged mages that can walk away from him which is annoying to say the least. His CC is a reliable slow and a hard as hell stun to land and the fact he has to use his ult for offense or defense.

Wilyum3 votes

I like the mobility in the runes, gives some unique champions the ability to play off-meta roles, Urgot JG for example. But yes I think a Jhin shouldn't be able to out run a Yi or someone like that

Fízz v22 votes

Why do some high mobility champions sometimes have more damage and more innate durability than immobile champions?

well thats pretty vague

also Annie is immobile and often goes predator

Nausicäa 21 votes

Which is consistent with what i said about Predator mostly being used for cheesy abuse cases. The counterplay to Annie is basically stay away from her short range or get one shot, Predator basically allows her to circumvent that and engage people in a way they cant avoid. Its very similar for Vlad.

Fízz v22 votes

Yeah, but they are still immobile champs, or at least not very mobile ones. And personally, Im more worried about literally 95% of all new champs getting cc tbh

RyzeTheSmurfMage1 votes

I'm worried about both.

Bottom Laner1 votes

you could say she's a child predator

VoraciousX2 votes

I don't think anything should happen to Celerity personally. Currently it's only strong if you have a move speed buff. Predator could be looked at as it's generally only for abuse cases, but Celerity and Relentless Hunter aren't really useful as far as just taking them because you can are considered(I doubt Relentless Hunter is taken much at all over other runes in it's place).

Nausicäa 2 votes

You're actually agreeing with the point i made about these Runes. As you said Celerity is only strong when you already have a move speed buff or in other words it makes champions that already have mobility even stronger while being pretty much useless for immobile champions. Champions with mobility do not need custom tailored Runes that improve their mobility and make them stronger. the mobility itself is already a huge advantage.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nausicäa ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePGyPEUl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-09-30T11:20:25.200+0000)

You're actually agreeing with the point i made about these Runes. As you said Celerity is only strong when you already have a move speed buff or in other words it makes champions that already have mobility even stronger while being pretty much useless for immobile champions. Champions with mobility do not need custom tailored Runes that improve their mobility and make them stronger. the mobility itself is already a huge advantage.

I didn't mean strong as in "overpowered" I meant strong as in good.

LOLOL2 votes

Why are some champions base MS such garbage, for seemingly no reason, while others are so good? Graves is fast as fuck for no good reason. Pantheon is basically in a constant Master Yi R MS for some reason. Mordekaiser for no reason has gggggarbage MS. You find this across the champion cast almost at random. Relentless hunter gives way too much power for one rune. All you need are assists and you get titloads of roaming speed. The rune rework in general has really screwed the game up.

This game makes no sense anymore. Why is Garen basically an indestructible assassin who now beats everyone in lane by maxing and pressing Q.

FurriesAreHot1 votes

Morde is slow because if he catches someone and sticks to them they're dead. As a juggernaut, he is slow but hits like a truck.

SwiftKitten881 votes

while i do think this is nesscary,, it would very negatively affect Nidalee 's clear.. so should we need some sort of base hp buff, hp per lvl buff and base armor . if she lost the AP from celerity which is an absolute necessity for her first clear.

obvoiusly the IDEAL solution would to just give her base AP but i dont see how that can be done, unless the fix the base stat system.

HaIlMonitor3 votes

That is simply not true. Nidalee's two highest winrate builds in high elo don't even use Sorcery at all.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/runes/nidalee/diamond

The one you are talking about is super popular, but it isn't like she would go from the best in D+ to worthless from the change.

GodlyBane1 votes

Talon is the only person in the game with infinite mobility. Mobility creep is a stupid circle jerk that i THOUGHT died down last month but oh too bad u have to put it back up again. Just stop circle jerking mobility. Its cringy

Shablagoo1 votes

Because you are completely looking at it at a lens of immobile vs mobile, of course its going to look unfair, when you compare immobile to mobile champions you just see the fact that one champion has something that another doesnt. Should I also complain about melee vs ranged, how about when I play Darius and have to face against heim in lane. But the fact of the matter it is just the way the game works, I dont believe this mobile champions deal more dmg then me. When I look at darius I dont see it, neither do I see it when i see vel in my games. It is up to you to play with the skill set your given and win. It isnt riots job to make it easier for you.

Nausicäa 2 votes

So ranged vs melee is a problem because you have problems on Darius with a single match up in which the only thing you're losing is some CS and heim has no chance of killing you unless you're bad?

Ranged vs melee doesnt completely invalidate your entire kit the way mobile vs immobile does. Try playing against Irelia or Yasuo on an immobile skillshot mage and watch as they dodge all your abilities with their mobility.

Playing as Darius vs Heim if you walk up to minions you take a little bit of poke damage and miss some CS. Playing as a skillshot mage vs Yasuo and Irelia you walk up to minions and you risk getting cap closed on and instantly dying. Pretty huge difference.

Shablagoo1 votes

It isnt just minons he takes your tower, along with literally chipping your health down repeatedly and maybe eventually killing you. It goes both ways too, if you play well and strategically go in you can kill heim. The same with a immobile mage facing a mobile champion you just have to play smarter. And in some cases ranged vs melee does, kayle vs darius, along with many other ranged champions can completely shut you down and poke you out of lane. The thing is they dont invalidate your kit if you play smart, for example placing your own skillshots properly for one, waiting until there mobility is down.

Also using yas as a example is just pointless because the games have counters. Yasuo is designed to beat out skillshot mages, not immobile mages. He doesnt win against anivia, malz, and sometimes veig. http://na.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/mid , mobile vs immobile it isnt the bases of mobility its player skill. Ranged vs melee isnt a problem, neither is moblie vs immobile, it is just a added challenge. It comes down to player skill if you want to use it as an excuse go ahead but it isnt a problem man.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Cannot upvote this enough!

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