Champions who absolutely need to be toned down next patch

FalconPawwwwnch·Dec 6, 2016·30 votes·2,858 views

Vi Lee Sin Hecarim Shyvana Zac

Notice something funny about these champs

116 Comments

Lux HDDec 6, 201616 votes

Anytime the jungle is strong, those champions stick out. Just be glad we don't see Elise and Nidalee on that list anymore.

RexSaurDec 6, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eLwzhOIL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-06T19:03:29.314+0000)

Anytime the jungle is strong, those champions stick out. Just be glad we don't see Elise and Nidalee on that list anymore.

So basically everytime, when was the last time that the jungle wasant the strongest role in the game? season 4? or was it season 2?

Sure it has never been as ridiculous as it is right now (junglers having more gold/exp than solo laners while having access to cheese ganks on lvl 1 laners), but still.

AstôlfoDec 6, 20169 votes

ADCs and mages would like to have a word with you.

RexSaurDec 6, 20165 votes

{quoted}

ADCs and mages would like to have a word with you.

Adcs do literally nothing outside of challenger/master, and even there the jungler is the one who decides the games usually.

AstôlfoDec 6, 20169 votes

"literally nothing"

pfffffFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

FalconPawwwwnchDec 6, 20166 votes

The problem isn't that if bot lane wins the game is probably over

The problem is that bot lane has very little control over who wins the lane because of how busted junglers are lmao

It's not just bot lane, it's every lane; junglers dictate every single lane

DepressedAhriDec 6, 20161 votes

But if you ward, the jungler can't gank, so bot lane does choose who wins B)

FaieDec 6, 20166 votes

No, because as an ADC, I have no control over which team does the 4-5 man gank botlane. And it doesn't matter if I can see the gank coming or not. If the jungler comes down to bot, I have to respect that pressure and back off, which loses lane priority and shifts pressure to their botlane.

DepressedAhriDec 6, 20161 votes

You have a fair point there, but at least you know it's coming and don't hand them kills on a tray.

FaieDec 6, 20165 votes

See, but this is what was meant by "have no control over the game". If you're not dominating your lane as an ADC, you have no impact on what happens. The problem is that ADC's only provide damage to the team, and they can't set up their own plays. So either they have SO much damage that they can one shot people (which is why Vayne is popular), or they have to rely on their team to do anything.

IcyPepperDec 7, 20161 votes

or they have to rely on their team to do anything.

Aren't they supposed to be a tad more reliant on their team, though, compared to other roles?

I mean, in the laning phase they get another dude dedicated to helping them lane.

FaieDec 7, 20161 votes

Sure, by design ADCs are supposed to be very team reliant, but that's what makes the person playing ADC not impactful. In games where people understand the game and group and fight properly, the ADC has little impact on what happens.

From a design standpoint, there's nothing with that, but it creates a really frustrating experience.

ForgiveColourDec 6, 20163 votes

Junglers can win the game in 5 minutes I want you to tell me how mid lane mages and bot lane adc can do that

Akali is SO HOTDec 6, 20164 votes

Mages win the game in champ select

ArakadiaDec 7, 20162 votes

Then why aren't they dominating with 60%+ winratess.

AstôlfoDec 6, 20163 votes

Yes anyone can win against idiots. Now, you were saying?

ForgiveColourDec 7, 20161 votes

So you have nothing better to say? LUL Keep your worthless opinion to yourself

AstôlfoDec 7, 20163 votes

I was hoping for an intelligent response. Alas, I expected too much from Boards.

RivuoDec 6, 20164 votes

{quoted}

ADCs and mages would like to have a word with you.

Adcs are extremely weak right now except like 2....

dominusxDec 7, 20163 votes

Vayne Twitch Caitlyn broken not strong. Ezreal Draven MissFortune Tristana Jhin Jinx stop spouting crap adc isnt aweak role never was.

RivuoDec 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

broken not strong. stop spouting crap adc isnt aweak role never was.

The only adcs worth playing right now

Are vayne twitch jhin

The rest are in the dumpster. Adcs have no impact on the game as of right now besides those 3.

If you are past silver, this should be common sense to you. Jungle and top/mid are the deciding factors in a game

dominusxDec 7, 20162 votes

nah i'm diamond. and diamond 1 in flex que ( aka i play mostly d1's and master tiers ) adc have big ass impact just like in every season it is not a weak role itis an obnoxious role.

RivuoDec 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

nah i'm diamond. and diamond 1 in flex que ( aka i play mostly d1's and master tiers ) adc have big ass impact just like in every season it is not a weak role itis an obnoxious role.

What a load of horse shit.

FalconPawwwwnchDec 6, 20164 votes

Amen, junglers get to keepup with top lane in EXP, influence the map, farm without chance of being denied as easily, and have a combat summoner if they want to because of smite upgrades

Meanwhile top lane gets one chance to influence the game and if they don't they lose tons of XP and gold for wasting a TP

Kirius DarkDec 6, 201610 votes

So you want every champ who can jungle to be crap? Theres literally champs in every role which could use some "toning down" but you totally neglect them and only target jungle champs. Sounds like youre salty about getting ganked

LostFr0stDec 6, 20167 votes

Yeah, the jungle itself is over-tuned. Those champs are just a very obvious symptom of that.

ForgiveColourDec 6, 20169 votes

Jungle has been overtuned for like 4 years now LUL

zlumpyDec 6, 20167 votes

Whats wrong with Zac? Look for a shadow then dodge his engage BOOM gank averted.

Also I think the game would benefit more from buffing underperforming champs more. Too many nerfs over the years we need buffs. Not just slight ones either I'm talking major things like adding 15 damage a rank to some character skills or lowering mana costs on some skills so they can be used as more of a constant threat.

ApocylipticDec 6, 20163 votes

You've clearly never faced a good Zac.

SwaggyMcGhee420Dec 6, 20167 votes

Yeah, nerf Zac because good Zac players are doing well with a champion they're good with.

Malicious MetalDec 6, 20166 votes

That's unacceptable! Meddler even said Morde's borderline busted because his mains are good with him!

Spice POWAHDec 7, 20161 votes

The jungle's really strong right now, so there's only one solution.

Nerf Irelia.

ApocylipticDec 6, 20162 votes

No, you nerf a clearly overtuned champion at the moment. Not only does he thrive in the meta, he's been a top tier jungler for quite a few patches. Couple this with CoC and he should have been touched long ago.

Contrary to the OP's original statement, you don't just, "dodge his shadow," and boom gank avoided. In order to dodge his shadow, unless he misplaces it (i.e the statement about good Zac's) you have to flash if it's aimed correctly. Believe it or not, there's also someone you're laning against, so lets say Zac puts its lightly behind you, just a little behind center (the optimal placement). This gives you three options: Run into Zac's CC, Run the opposite direction of your turret and thus safety, or flash premtively.

Couple this with the fact that he can gank from such a distance that defeats most ward placements, his early ganks are extremely potent and his lategame just the same.

No matter the hard on these boards have for low DPS tanks, Zac needs to be tuned down.

SwaggyMcGhee420Dec 7, 20161 votes

He's not overtuned, doesn't thrive in the meta, and he's not top teir. He's decent. Courage isnt much better on him than strength of the ages was, because there's no reason to want to fight through his shield after he already used his cc. The area of his e isn't very difficult to dodge, especially given the warning. It's true that he can sandwich you and force you to make a decision, but so can many other junglers if you're out of position or pushed. The range of his e starts out relatively small, and scales with level, so it's not like his early game ganks are on the same level as Lee Sin's. His late game requires follow up, as he's terrible with any ap in his build, and won't be doing much damage at all. I hate tanks as much as the next assassin player, but Zac isn't broken by any means, he's decent, and strong at best when played by a competent player.

HazyCloud7Dec 7, 20161 votes

Dodge? The AoE of his slingshot is so big its practically impossible for the Zac player to miss it unless the enemy burns flash or utilizes a an escape ability. And the range is huuuge.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 7, 20165 votes

Lowering the Q ratio by 20% on Vayne's Q doesn't fix her problems. She will 'only' be critting you for 375% AD instead of 425%......

xBushxDec 6, 20163 votes

Fizz....needs to be toned down too. Right now he is busted.

AstôlfoDec 6, 20163 votes

PFFFT. He's trash.

ShaolinToiletDec 6, 20163 votes

Darius is too strong right now.

Troll for TrumpDec 6, 20162 votes

They.. shouldn't have reworked him

VivaLaKittenDec 7, 20161 votes

too strong? Too strong?!?!?!1 yeah just building a black cleaver then going full tank yet still doing as much damage as a fighter (cough Garen cough) isn't busted at all