Why does annie even have CD refund on her Q?

DropFill·Jul 4, 2015·10 votes·944 views

This is stupid because if you get countered by her, you don't have any open window to do any damage to her without taking even more damage.

27 Comments

Karen KujoJul 4, 20158 votes

You can't let Annie players lasthit with autoattacks, that would take too much skill for them

Solidair3Jul 4, 20155 votes

Originally they added that to help mid Annie when support Annie was getting nerfed.

bradJul 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Originally they added that to help mid Annie when support Annie was getting nerfed.

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WheatloafJul 4, 20155 votes

You weren't here around season 3 worlds, were you?

LoLKiruJul 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Originally they added that to help mid Annie when support Annie was getting nerfed.

This, the buff was mostly intended to help mid Annie farm easier.

IcyPepperJul 4, 20152 votes

Doesn't Urgot?

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons. Annie is the cheapest mage, and easy to learn, so I believe she's intended to help new players learn how to play mages. Her Q gets the cd refund to encourage players to farm with it, teaching them to farm with spells as well as last-hits. On the plus side, it will use up her passive if she gets too into it, so you have a window of time to attack her safely if you keep track of her passive.

And don't forget she's short-ranged. Yes, she can flash+tibbers, but anyone can flash combo. Try to pick someone like Ahri who outranges her if you're having trouble with Annie.

DropFillJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't Urgot?

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons. Annie is the cheapest mage, and easy to learn, so I believe she's intended to help new players learn how to play mages. Her Q gets the cd refund to encourage players to farm with it, teaching them to farm with spells as well as last-hits. On the plus side, it will use up her passive if she gets too into it, so you have a window of time to attack her safely if you keep track of her passive.

And don't forget she's short-ranged. Yes, she can flash+tibbers, but anyone can flash combo. Try to pick someone like Ahri who outranges her if you're having trouble with Annie.

As I said , countering annie is not a problem. Being countered by her is. You can't do shit

IcyPepperJul 4, 20151 votes

True, some counters are more difficult than others...

Can you give me a couple examples of champions who can't do shit against Annie in the mid lane (for the sake of simplicity, let's ignore support Annie for now. Maybe later)?

DropFillJul 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

True, some counters are more difficult than others...

Can you give me a couple examples of champions who can't do shit against Annie in the mid lane (for the sake of simplicity, let's ignore support Annie for now. Maybe later)?

Katarina is a good example. There is nothing you can do except cry for multiple ganks. But you still have to buy MR while she can rush luden's

IcyPepperJul 4, 20151 votes

... Can you give me a different example? :<

I'm a little biased against Katarina, tbh. She seems very feast/famine to me, and it feels like she can make comebacks easier than others if her laning is rough. Assassins in general have a weaker lane against utility or cc mages.

So... any others? :<

DropFillJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

... Can you give me a different example? :<

I'm a little biased against Katarina, tbh. She seems very feast/famine to me, and it feels like she can make comebacks easier than others if her laning is rough. Assassins in general have a weaker lane against utility or cc mages.

So... any others? :<

Karthus is another example. She can zone you hard and karthus doesn't have good synergy with mr items early on.

IcyPepperJul 4, 20153 votes

Hm...

According to this, Karthus actually counters Annie with a 54% win rate.

You don't necessarily have to build magic resist early. Starting with item 3027 , you can substitute your tear item for a item 3174 . Scaling hp seals instead of armor seals would help as well, especially if you get item 3157 on him. If you absolutely need some magic resist and health beyond that, you can opt for a sixth defensive item (or get it early, I guess) with item 3102 .

DropFillJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

... Can you give me a different example? :<

I'm a little biased against Katarina, tbh. She seems very feast/famine to me, and it feels like she can make comebacks easier than others if her laning is rough. Assassins in general have a weaker lane against utility or cc mages.

So... any others? :<

Also, any squishy mid laner that doesn't zone her hard from farm early on will be fucked up mid to late game because of flash tibbers

desertoflameJul 5, 20153 votes

Drop you sound like someone who isn't willing to adapt. Take time to think about what Annie is building, and build. I played a talon who i destroyed within 10 minutes 3/0 and instead of taking the full damage route he used the little gold he had to get Merc treds and a hex. I could no longer kill him and he was able to turn on me (who had build full damage because of my lead)

Sona PingJul 5, 20151 votes

True facts: "Countered by Annie" are three words that never belong together. There's a reason she is not considered a competitive choice for mid lane

DanofDemaciaJul 4, 20152 votes

So she has some fucking waveclear damn all you people do is qq

DropFillJul 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

So she has some fucking waveclear damn all you people do is qq

Good. Because a burst 0 counterplay mage should have easy waveclear right?

SaltyKrackaJul 4, 20151 votes

Dude, if she's wasting stun stacks on the wave, that's your opening.

Sir YamazukiJul 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Dude, if she's wasting stun stacks on the wave, that's your opening.

It doesn't take long to get it back.

SaltyKrackaJul 4, 20151 votes

It means you have an opening to either poke, farm, or go all-in. And it'll take at least 8 seconds, because if annie uses her normal rotation to try to get stacks up again, even in the fastest possible way, it'll still take at least 10 seconds for her to have another stun.

Sir YamazukiJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It means you have an opening to either poke, farm, or go all-in. And it'll take at least 8 seconds, because if annie uses her normal rotation to try to get stacks up again, even in the fastest possible way, it'll still take at least 10 seconds for her to have another stun.

She can get it back in half the time if she's mid lane, even lower if it's 6+. Not like she's really loses much to begin with-> http://champion.gg/champion/Annie/Middle

SaltyKrackaJul 4, 20151 votes

Yes, she has a high winrate. What I'm saying is that given the cooldowns on her abilities (Q is a minimum of 2, W is 8, E is 10) without CDR (which I don't see Annies building), if she farms with Q or W you have at least 10 seconds before her stun is up again unless she blows Tibbers without a stun.

IOW, if she blows stun on the wave, you have a window to act. How you use it depends on your champ and yourself.

Leaf of the lakeJul 4, 20152 votes

Any window in which her stun isn't up is a window in which you can fight her. Annie thrives off of WQ (or QW) stuns, then backing off. If you see her blow her stun on a minion, that's your opportunity to go in and do massive damage. It will not be up for that engage, no matter how short her Q CD is. It takes 5 abilities for her to stun you; even if she blows her ult, her full rotation isn't enough to get a stun after just using one.

3TWarriorJul 4, 20151 votes

does she even get that anymore?

The EllimiistJul 5, 20151 votes

cuz her waveclear is garbage? They can remove the refund on Q but then annie will be another forced support and mid annie will be dead ;p

Earl EulrichJul 5, 20151 votes

that really is the least of the problems of Annie...you can fall behind in lane easily with her, 1item later you´ll still delete any squishie in 1 rotation with zero counterplay. That 55%+ winrate mid certainly don´t come from her farming too easily.