The Mordekaiser rework shows you how absurd the ADC class is

HateDaddy··7 votes·1,495 views

It shows you what melees need in order to ever properly lane against ranged ADCs:

•Absurd Sustain

•Natural defensive steroid to help deal with constant poke and minion aggro since a ranged ADC never has to deal with extreme amounts of minion aggro whereas anytime a melee gets on top of you, they're eating tons of minion aggro, which is huge in early laning

•Ridiculous upfront damage - obviously his Q isn't completely upfront, he needs to charge it but he trades typically with a charged Q. This is essentially mandatory because you won't stay in range of them for long where you just get kited into oblivion

•Mobility - morde does not have this obviously. But this has been the generic answer in the past for melees to deal with ranged champions, especially in a game where so many ranged champions have hard CC. Morde does make up for this with his W and the fact he has a support that will likely have some sort of hard CC.

•Having some sort of CC - again, morde doesn't have this. However, typically a combination of mobility + CC is required for a melee to fight a ranged champion because otherwise they jump to them and get kited, it's the only successful method that's shown any consistency for melees vs ranged champions, which is why so many melees are loaded with it.

These are just general cases for what is required for melees to be able to have any sort of hope to deal with ranged champions in lane. This is compounded significantly when you have 2v2 lanes with a support, where very few melees (if any not named morde) can actually successfully 2v2 with a support vs an ADC.

In the past, you'd basically have to run a kill lane to win, but the burden is on the melee + support kill lane to actually get kills or they just slowly get outscaled and their team comp falls apart 20 minutes in if it hasn't snowballed to absurd levels.

This has never been considered a viable strategy in pro play, just pick one ADC and another and have safe scaling in tact. It's also why ADCs are rarely pick/ban in pro play or solo queue, the class is so generic in its design that there's no point in banning one right click bot when you'll just get another. It's an inefficient ban considering that. The only exception is when it's something absurdly overpowered or overtuned, or a case of inevitability where the ADC in question gets 1-2 items and the game is basically over (classic protect the Kog comps in s2; Vayne fotm etc).

But what's even further proof is how riot had to add unique mechanics to the game to help a melee botland carry make up for their lack of ability to siege - Mordes drafon ghost is aimed at helping siege, not to mention other objective controlling. His duo lane W that grants him and his support sustain, which is unique because it's AOE sustain placed on a NON-support champion.

This is why it's going to be months before we know if the morde rework was even a success. There are so many tendencies and metas that this approach is attempting to break and shatter, ancient things like ranged ADCs being mandatory, and we need to see if you ever actually see a morde bot lane in competitive or if it's having unprecedented success in high elo.

My short guess is it won't be and that's not a knock on Riots rework for Morde, I think it's fucking awesome that they went way outside the box to try and make something other than ranged ADCs go bot. But the issue is that I doubt they can ever make a change to a champion that will make people ever find it compelling to take over a ranged ADC bot lane because of how ranged ADC + supports have powered creeped everything else out of the lane. Simply put, I think the task is too tall for them to tackle it.

You'd have to make some serious changes to ADCs directly and their itemization, otherwise you'll never see anything other than ADC be optimal for the bot lane carry role.

12 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes

it would be almost funny if it wasnt so sad. the class was supposed to be all lategame, with a weak early game to compensate. well, they got the lategame down.

but the reality is, if theyre not laning against other ranged champions, theyre just bullying the shit out of their lane opponent. im still waiting for riot to fix the early melee/ranged matchup.

item 1054 this item right here is what needs to change to have an increased effect against ranged auto attacks. imo it should work like a mini thornmail against ranged attacks with a "melee only" condition slapped onto it.

we also need a lvl 1 mr option that can compte with item 1029 + item 2003 x 5

Chuck Charles2 votes

Adds are banned quite often in LCS. In fact Kalista has been a priority first pick if left open nearly constantly. Sivir is prioritized for team fight utility, as is Tristana for tower taking. Despite how you feel adcs are not right click bots. Sure melees cannot lane against them, but they trade that for the fact that later unless that adc can kite perfectly or gets tons of peels the melds will typically explode them

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eB1IJWPs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-10T00:55:03.603+0000)

Adds are banned quite often in LCS. In fact Kalista has been a priority first pick if left open nearly constantly. Sivir is prioritized for team fight utility, as is Tristana for tower taking. Despite how you feel adcs are not right click bots. Sure melees cannot lane against them, but they trade that for the fact that later unless that adc can kite perfectly or gets tons of peels the melds will typically explode them

ADCs have never been a priority to ban out in competitive or solo queue as a class compared to other classes, minus exceotions that I mentioned above.

And I'm aware that ADCs can bring more to the table than just sustained ranged damage that scales the best but ask yourself this, if the class wasn't mandatory, why run Sivir bot lane when you want utility? Why not run Jayce and his gate? Why not run Orianna? Why not any utility oriented champion that isn't also an ADC? It's because they are still ADCs that siege significantly better than any other class and still have the safest ranged sustain damage.

Also, I'm not saying ranged ADCs are this unkillable or undivable class, they can easily be killed in game. But the class as a whole power creeps the living shit out of any other class in the game when it comes to bot lane because of how much they bring to the table in safe damage, siege, lane prowess and scaling. It's never at any point aside from s1 up until s1 worlds, been effective to take anything else bot lane in the carry role. This is a clear cut sign of how overpowered or another phrase you could use, ridiculously safe, the ADC class is. There has never been any other class that's been mandatory to have in a game.

Don't say jungle or support because those aren't classes, those are roles that can be filled by a multitude of different classes. But nothing has ever been able to replace the bot lane carry role over a ranged ADC. Nothing.

Chuck Charles1 votes

{quoted}

ADCs have never been a priority to ban out in competitive or solo queue as a class compared to other classes, minus exceotions that I mentioned above.

And I'm aware that ADCs can bring more to the table than just sustained ranged damage that scales the best but ask yourself this, if the class wasn't mandatory, why run Sivir bot lane when you want utility? Why not run Jayce and his gate? Why not run Orianna? Why not any utility oriented champion that isn't also an ADC? It's because they are still ADCs that siege significantly better than any other class and still have the safest ranged sustain damage.

Also, I'm not saying ranged ADCs are this unkillable or undivable class, they can easily be killed in game. But the class as a whole power creeps the living shit out of any other class in the game when it comes to bot lane because of how much they bring to the table in safe damage, siege, lane prowess and scaling. It's never at any point aside from s1 up until s1 worlds, been effective to take anything else bot lane in the carry role. This is a clear cut sign of how overpowered or another phrase you could use, ridiculously safe, the ADC class is. There has never been any other class that's been mandatory to have in a game.

Don't say jungle or support because those aren't classes, those are roles that can be filled by a multitude of different classes. But nothing has ever been able to replace the bot lane carry role over a ranged ADC. Nothing.

have never been a priority in competitive play to be banned....right. thats why kalista is perma banned for the team that gets 2nd/3rd pick. and thats why teams build their entire comp around hyper carries like tristana or around the utility like I said of sivir. ADCs are meta because of their ability to take objectives faster than just about any other role in the game. There are people who dish out similar DPS in Azir, Cassiopeia, etc...but ADCs in general are the fastest at securing objectives and pushing to win come late game. not to mention their general DPS is something that forces teams to build armor in the first place. The reason you don't see Jayce, or any other "ADC" that isnt a pure DPS marksman is because they aren't effective against tanks. can you imagine a team of 2 or 3 tanks against no adc? they would win nearly be default. please man. I understand that ADCs feel safe...but they aren't. they don't even have good early games. put them in a solo lane and they will just be ganked into oblivion.

cagaman2 votes

lol youre talking like the reason morde wins bot is because of his great rework design if you give double exp to almost any champ in game, the champ will be able to win bot lane easy... just imagine xin, riven or darius bot with double exp...

HateDaddy1 votes

Cleaned it up a bit, didn't realize it was such an eye sore to read while I was writing it up

Meep Man1 votes

Really, if this game was based entirely on the early game, you could bring an ADC into every lane and probably win unless the enemy picked an Assassin or Control Mage to every lane. The only reason the meta is set up the way it is is to fight how stupid the ADCs scale into late game. If you don't have a character that can dive in head first Top, you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have an initiator or niche Assassin/Fighter in the Jungle, you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have a long range Mage or mobile Assassin middle (or Galio), you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have an ADC, YOU ARE DEFINITELY AT A DISADVANTAGE! If you don't have a Support, your ADC is probably gonna die a lot, so you will likely lose. Notice how out of all those, ADC is the only one that you absolutely must have only one way. You must have a Marksman because they are so valuable that you to a team, not picking one might instantly spell GG. With Mordekaiser, they had to make an immobile, crowd control-less melee champion match the power of the Marksman. This is what Mordekaiser is.

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eB1IJWPs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-09-10T01:22:04.033+0000)

Really, if this game was based entirely on the early game, you could bring an ADC into every lane and probably win unless the enemy picked an Assassin or Control Mage to every lane. The only reason the meta is set up the way it is is to fight how stupid the ADCs scale into late game. If you don't have a character that can dive in head first Top, you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have an initiator or niche Assassin/Fighter in the Jungle, you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have a long range Mage or mobile Assassin middle (or Galio), you are at a disadvantage. If you don't have an ADC, YOU ARE DEFINITELY AT A DISADVANTAGE! If you don't have a Support, your ADC is probably gonna die a lot, so you will likely lose. Notice how out of all those, ADC is the only one that you absolutely must have only one way. You must have a Marksman because they are so valuable that you to a team, not picking one might instantly spell GG. With Mordekaiser, they had to make an immobile, crowd control-less melee champion match the power of the Marksman. This is what Mordekaiser is.

But morde still gets outscaled ridiculously hard by an ADC.

This is how I've seen Morde bot lane work when it does work. He wins lane super hard, takes tower early. Gets dragon, with every dragon you siege mid. By 20 minutes you're knocking on inhib towers and attempting to take them before the enemy carry gets any items, naturally this can be offset by an extremely fed opposing solo Laner, which can stall long enough for their ADC to get items. If morde does not win by 25 minutes, he just gets hella outscaled and basically loses the game because he can't offer the same, safe sustained damage from range the enemy ADC can once it gets items. And this is why it's pointless to ever run anything other than ADCs bot because you can't rely on snowballing/winning hard as your only path to victory.

Punkkee1 votes

Diamond said so, so upvoted good cryin and hatin hatedaddy

The Yetii Rider1 votes

AOE sustain on a non support isn't unique. Grand Challenge.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

AOE sustain on a non support isn't unique. Grand Challenge.

Well prior to that addition I should say, which was released, what? One patch before the morde rework. Two maybe? Regardless, it is unique. 2 carry champions having AoE sustain for teammates is still pretty unique.

HateDaddy1 votes

So do any of you silent downvoters care to chime in?

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