Who the fuck asked for this?
Kha zix got a 40% damage increase on Q and now only has 40% of the cooldown if it hits an isolated target (The range of which is busted anway)
Also an insanely broken sstealth passive on bushes And Fizz got all around buffs
What the hell?
q fizz p2 votes
didn't get a buff
Hibeki1 votes[{quoted}](name=q fizz p,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dvGUBIA7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-02T23:41:56.607+0000)
What the fuck is this then
http://i.imgur.com/HVi8iKp.png
Also no surprise there, fizz main trying to defend a busted champ being buffed
q fizz p2 votesmaining him means i know better than you if it's a buff or a nerf and no it's not a buff, his playstyle changed a lot
Meep Man2 votesFizz isn't busted and that isn't a buff. His W is really strong but making maximum use of the damage now requires Fizz to put himself at risk unless he somehow manages to AA you before a fight then Q+W you (which is risk itself). Point blank R's (which is how you often used Fizz R) is also a lot weaker now (and R no longer provides 20% increased damage).
I don't even main Fizz and clearly see that this is at most a neutral change.
TeemoXNidalee2 votes**What the fuck is this then **
http://i.imgur.com/HVi8iKp.png
Also no surprise there, fizz main trying to defend a busted champ being buffed
Nerfs
Volcanuz2 votesTrue but he also didn't get balanced. The one champ who needed balance changes and didn't really see much work done. I hope they do something with him soon to make him better but also more skill needed for his insane payout because right now a total idiot can pick him up and play well with just 4 or so games played.
q fizz p2 votesthe new fizz is a lot harder to play, u need to wait 2 sec for his w active, u can't w q anymore, and you need to land your shark from max range for maximum damage
his laning phase is just a little bit easier
and he wasn't op at all, exept in bronze
Volcanuz1 votesIt isn't that he is OP. He is far from that. It is just his sustained burst which was the problem and still is the problem. In a team fight spanning over 30 seconds his damage output is so much higher than any other mage or assassin which is why he needed the W nerf and R change.
But harder to play is silly. Sure if you only play fizz it became harder, but if i were to pick him up he would feel much better to use and less spammy which is what people wanted. Because with the state lich and fizz were at it was too simple to pop even medium tanky targets.
CrazFight 2 votesThe only real fizz buff is his ult width and thats meh. Otherwise he was nerfed.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votescry its an adc meta and they are broken... assassins get a class rework
what counters adcs? ASSASSINS/BURST
what counters assassins? TANKS/CC
what counters tanks? ADCS
Volcanuz2 votesWhat counters ADC? Other ADC, Supports, Mid burst mages or CC mages, Assassins and Bruisers.
Even tanks destroy ADC unless kog or Vayne really.
People like you are the reason the game is why most think this game is full of morons.
The game isn't ADC meta at all. The only reason it seems that way is tower pushing is important and mid game is where ADC should be pushing the towers with team so they seem OP. Also people just don't understand focusing the ADC. If you just put 10% of your teams skills into the ADC it will die in seconds.
If you don't believe me, go play 30 games of ADC in ranked and tell me how powerful you feel as an ADC. Really if you or your team is struggling against an ADC it is your own damn fault for letting them farm or not focusing them in fights. ADC is the only role you 100% of the time need to be in position or have to have peel, so until ADC can peel and protect them self while doing absurd damage and CC'ing you are just talking shit mate.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votestanks dont do* sustain dps
edit thanks to VOLCANUZ
Volcanuz1 votesWtf kind of English is this.
Tanks can deal great amounts of DPS over time. Certainly enough to kill an ADC. All they need to do is keep them close and they can win, and most tanks have items and skills which can keep them close up. Take Naut for instance. By all means a tank, but the damage output with no AP on his skills is still enough with 1 combo to 70% health a ADC or more. Add thorn and sunfire. And you defiantly can take out most ADC who don't have an escape ability.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesdps means damage per second as in high volumes of damage per second
if you build 
ap yes he can do damage but wont be a tank...
Volcanuz1 votesDPS is in a couple forms. Sustain (which most ADC do), Burst (tanks and Mage AP do this, along with assassins) and poke (mages and supports do this form the most along with SOME ADC).
So DPS when calcuated for poke and burst will have a total in DPM which is damage per minute. Sustain if you have a 70% active time will still equal to that of a Burst DPS character.
Therefore the DPS of a tank and ADC are close to the same.
So AP naut will do roughly around the same amount as a tank naut.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesand my english is jacked cuz im sick i have strep throat and on tons of meds on top of fukin dyslexia
so i may think one thing and type another right now
Handy Sandy 2 votesWhat counters ADC? Other ADC, Supports, Mid burst mages or CC mages, Assassins and Bruisers.
...But supports don't have enough damage to kill them, and they normally don't have enough health to survive an adc autoattacking them for more than a couple seconds.
And don't adcs kite bruisers?
Meep Man1 votesADCs dont counter other ADCs (unless it's champion specific), Supports don't counter ADCs, and Bruisers are DEFINITELY not ADC counters (unless champion specific).
Volcanuz1 votesAll countering is champion or item specific.. wtf are you on about.
I never said ALL bruisers counter ADC. I was saying in general most can.
Also ADC certainly counter ADC. Forcing them out of lane, out CS'ing, or better positioning is how you counter. Which is player skill sure but also applys to the role. When it comes down to it, if you have lets say.. two doublelifts playing at the same skill level against each other, if it were a Vayne v Vayne either could win it is all down to the nitty gritty who fucked up first design of play. But if you take two doubles and you have a match up of lets say, Quinn V Vayne it is a different story. So technically ADC does Counter ADC as long as skill level is higher, lower or matched up you can win or counter anyone really with that role. Which is why you still need to take into account the ADC you are vsing as an ADC because depending on what they pick and their skill level with that champion depends on if you would counter or be countered in that lane.
So saying you can't counter ADC with ADC is so stupid and the reason why i flamed the first post.
People who think in a direct line and think this game is all ROCK PAPER SCISSORS annoy the fuck out of me because even the most unlikly choice can win or lose the game. This game isn't a 1v1 game. It is a team game and it really is TEAM countering TEAM more than one role countering it all. The amount of games i have seen without an assassin or tank, or full damage teams, which win is astonishing. The only time META REALLLLLLLY comes into play is seriously 5 man teams with full comms. When you play this game at that level you will understand why the meta is the META.
But until then there is no such thing as "tank meta" or "ADC meta". That shit is all moronic talk and should be shut down every time it is brought up.
Sona Ping1 votesThat depends on the support, the situation, the time in the game, etc. _ "And don't adcs kite bruisers?"_ Unless your name is Lucian, Kiting is just a delaying tactic 1v1 and what they are delaying is the enemy taking 80% of your health in a hit or two, past early game. Bruisers are the best duelists in the game and champions who are played as ADC populate the lowest move speed tiers while bruisers are in the highest, if that even matters because they have movement steroids, if not gap closers, to accompany the CC they usually have.
Handy Sandy 1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dvGUBIA7,comment-id=0001000000010001,timestamp=2016-11-03T01:09:35.734+0000)
That depends on the support, the situation, the time in the game, etc. _ "And don't adcs kite bruisers?"_ Unless your name is Lucian, Kiting is just a delaying tactic 1v1 and what they are delaying is the enemy taking 80% of your health in a hit or two, past early game. Bruisers are the best duelists in the game and champions who are played as ADC populate the lowest move speed tiers while bruisers are in the highest, if that even matters because they have movement steroids, if not gap closers, to accompany the CC they usually have.
can all kite. Keep in mind that every time a bruiser attacks an adc is doing like 2-3 hits and they prob gonna have lifesteal. And it's not like a bruiser is going to be having 80%+ health left after a couple hits from an adc anytime the adc is like level 12+
If bruisers are seriously a counter to adcs, why would adcs be such a huge problem in top lane? Yeah they have gapclosers, but the ones that don't are going to get kited and die. The ones that do have gapclosers can still die because lifesteal.
Volcanuz1 votes
If bruisers are seriously a counter to adcs, why would adcs be such a huge problem in top lane? Yeah they have gapclosers, but the ones that don't are going to get kited and die. The ones that do have gapclosers can still die because lifesteal.
Needs to land Q's and use his E which has a high CD.
Has no mobility so she relies on move speed items to maintain or keep up her kiting, and since her passive change ages back she can't kite without building heavy into crit to increase the slow. Also needs her ult which sucks at point blank to keep dashing bruisers off her.
Has no kiting ability over dash based champions of even those using ghost. Her traps take too long to arm and she has no slow other than her W which has a massive delay on it and can be dodged.
Netgun is her only kite skill, and trap use, but the animation slows down your movement and breaks your AA so unless you know how to trap between autos like i do (as i main her) you are shit out of luck. Also her E netgun is easy to dodge unless point blank.
His knock back is great sure. But he relies heavily on his autos and his push back can at times cause him to miss or break AA's. He is also one of the most difficult ADC in the game to learn let alone kite with.
If you think her E is enough to kite someone you are mental. It's cool down is massive, damage is crap, and once you exit the AOE it loses the slow instantly. The only way you can kite with her is to not take ANY damage at all and land the perfect E's so the difficulty rating of her Kiting is super huge.
Quinn doesn't kite. She out trades. Quinn is a solo goddess. She is all about her passive to beat people even bruisers, due to her insane damage output only and not 100% her kiting. Sure her abilities seem like you are kiting but overall you are using the skills to stack the Passive on the target over kiting. Most fights for her end in 5 seconds so she is defiantly not a kiter.
No. Unless you place traps before the fight kiting is fucking difficult with Jhin. He relies again on items to kite and it only seems like he is kiting because he doesn't auto like other ADC do. He has to keep moving while autoing due to the delay between shots and reloading. Kiting involves skills to actually do and isn't just normal movement like it is for Jhin. Maybe you can contest that he is a kiter due to his normal play style but really people just don't play him well which is why it doesn't seem common to most.
You're kidding right. She has two abilities for escape and kite sure. But her ability to kite disappears after she uses both of them. Level 1 W is 22 second CD. TWENTY TWO SECONDS. Most people either max Q or E first, i rather Q but this isn't a convo on that. W is her only escape, and if used improperly you have to run away. Kiting becomes impossible for her without it. She has one of the lower base move speeds which is why most rush boots after they get her first item. Kiting is freaking hard without your R up or W for trist so she certainly can't kite anyone who has a dash or flash up.
Yep the only one you got right here on that list. She can constantly Q if maxed and kite like a boss. But she is the only one really. Her and Lucian.
Please if you have very little experience with the ADC role please don't think you know what you are talking about. I have M5 on every ADC except Corki(because i dislike his playstyle). So i have SOME experience i would think on how these champions work. And i have also been playing with most since beta.
Volcanuz2 votesThiiiiiiiiiiiiis.
So much this.
The only bruisers who can't match an ADC and can be kited are all old champions. Ever since season 3 early, every top champion that is a bruiser has such huge mobility control it is near impossible for anything without a dash to kite them.
Vayne, Ez and Lucian are the only real strong kiters of bruisers and even then most can't output the damage to put them down before they get backup.
Can't tell you how many games i have had where i am fighting a bruiser get them past 50% and an ally comes and blows me up for them. Kiting these days is not worth it unless you have backup your self or are doing it to slow their pushing progression.
Volcanuz1 votesADC kiting bruisers these days is non-existent unless you are playing Ez, Lucian, Cait, Corki, vayne or Trist and even then they can use flash or force your flash then try again when its all off CD. Most bruisers used now totally shut down most ADC 1v1 unless they have no clue about the champion they are playing. Take Garen for instance, building his typical tanky damage he will every day destroy you in a 1v1 unless you are Ezreal/Vayne with just his Q. If he lands just his Q and a little bit of his spin a ult will finish you off in seconds, so even bruisers have enough burst to pop most ADC builds.
Lately i have been having to sub some items off my normal build to get some more survival compared to raw damage just to maintain my self in a fight. Some of my builds im going double LS items or Mallet/Sterak just to survive the burst most people are outputting these days.
Also the whole kiting thing only works if you aren't vs the INSANE amount of dash people get now, and having insane levels of sight on the map. Take Kha for instance. If i were to counter or stop a Kha in his current state on live server as an ADC EVEN WITH BACKUP (meaning 1 or 2 people with me) i would need to have 5 wards up on that side of the jungle to setup or prep for a fight against him. So to say Assassins are crap in this meta is absolutely absurd and they really don't need that much of a buff to balance or bring them in line with the current meta.
What assassins REALLY need is better item selection and options. As they don't 100% rely on auto attacking most times what they need are items which work better with skill use over auto. But RIOT are not only giving them more items and item changes BUT ON TOP OF THAT buffing their skills and giving them better stuff along with it and this is where things are getting out of hand for the class of champion.
ADC are certainly not the main role of this META at all. It is still the tank and hard CC which make up this meta and if you look over the WORLDS games find me one team makeup that doesn't have heavy peel or heavy CC that didn't win. Then find me games where the ADC won it out right for them and then compare the two. ADC is just a tool of the team to apply pushing power only and that is it. Gone are the days of ADC just out right soloing the team with their damage, it just doesn't exist anymore.
ALSO SUPPORTS. There are tons of supports who can crush a ADC in a solo fight. Blitz, Sona, Karma, Lux, Brand, Teemo, Shen, Naut, Zrya and some times Janna just to name a few. Sure you can't beat a fed to the teeth ADC 1v1 but not many can beat a fed anything 1v1 without being fed them self. Just because you are taking accounts where a losing support dies to a winning ADC doesn't mean it is 100% fact that Supports can't counter a ADC. Also i would like to state that when i said a support counters an ADC i mean as in picking that support can counter an ADC's early and late game. Which is why Janna is such a strong pick right now. Janna can mitigate damage in trades while increasing damage of her ADC in trades, slow the target if chase is possible, while buffing her ADC's move speed to dodge skill shots or run away from ganks. Her nado can peel while also CC'ing on the fly, and her ult just shuts down the enemy teams 6 once both sides get it which shuts down the lane she is in at all points of the game. That seriously is enough to counter an ADC. If i as an ADC can't trade or force the enemy ADC out of lane and we get equal farm it is more likely they will win the late game due to not needing to catch up to me. As someone who mains all-in ADC(Lucian, Jinx, Twitch and trist) this is a massive problem.
So it is possible for yes.. even the support to counter an ADC.
As much as people want to say this game isn't balanced, it is fucking incredibly balanced. Sure some CHAMPIONS may not be balanced fully or are just out of control but most are perfectly fine and have their weakness, people just are too stubborn to change how they play to COUNTER those champions.
Catastrop1 votesThe only assassins that got buffed are Kha'Zix and Rengar. Everyone else is just kind of.....iffy. Yes iffy, I couldn't think of a better word.
Volcanuz1 votesTalon got a huge buff. As someone who mained him but fell off playing him, his damage and usefulness shot through the moon and hit Jupiter.
