"Tank shaco is too strong, how are we going to balance it?"

Ahristocats·Mar 24, 2017·19 votes·2,669 views

"just force shaco players to play ap lul"

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kJwirJk2Krc/WNWJZ3cLVrI/AAAAAAAAgvg/-iM3RLXGqfsjZcVGVAn1nJHtlBK9w0SAwCLcB/s640/shacop.jpg

well thank you riot, i mean you're right ap shaco is so fun to play

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

48 Comments

RalanrMar 24, 20176 votes

Well it does stop him from building tank.

In theory.

AhristocatsMar 24, 20177 votes

and ruin the fun of the champ

not touching shaco ever again, ap shaco is fcking aids to play

Papa AndreiMar 24, 20172 votes

I enjoy ap shaco ;-; boxboxbox

Wind WhistlerMar 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpvHjNFx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-24T21:26:37.579+0000)

and ruin the fun of the champ

not touching shaco ever again, ap shaco is fcking aids to play

Riot ruins a lot of fun champs. Look at Yorick and Galio.

Fisher No ChainsMar 25, 20173 votes

Well honestly, they're for sure better now, at least kit-wise.

Old Yorick was just a E W Q W Q W Q and was Kalista-disgust-tier.

Old Galio had... 0.7% playrate? It means that not a lot of people enjoyed playing him. So Riot decided to rework him, just like they did with Karma.

Wind WhistlerMar 25, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Well honestly, they're for sure better now, at least kit-wise.

Old Yorick was just a E W Q W Q W Q and was Kalista-disgust-tier.

Old Galio had... 0.7% playrate? It means that not a lot of people enjoyed playing him. So Riot decided to rework him, just like they did with Karma.

E W Q? I usually started my combo with W, or sometimes Q, if I was close enough to them. It really depended on the situation. Honestly, I disagree. I can tell that his kit was put together pretty quickly, but it was put together well for the short amount of time they had to work on it. Overall, his kit design may have been rather poor, but he was still very fun to play.

Also, no. Galio's old kit was better designed than his new one. The new one is just generic. All of his abilities are things that you see on other champions now.

Fisher No ChainsMar 25, 20174 votes

I played him like 3 times in 3 years so I don't really remember how I laned as Yorick.

His kit was pretty much like Singed's or Tryndamere's. They're not fun per se (at least for a majority of people), you just have fun in pissing your opponent off.

For Galio, I agree he wasn't as bad as other champions, but he suffered from the "Karma syndrome". Even though he could succeed with his previous kit, no one played him so Riot said "let's make him another Shen-like tank". For Karma, it was "let's make her another random enchanter".

Wind WhistlerMar 25, 20171 votes

He's not as brain dead in lane as people thought he was. You can't just spam abilities- You have to conserve them and use them well, because of his mana issues early game. If you spammed, you'd run out of mana and the enemy laner would jump on you and kick your sorry green ass.

Also, I disagree. The only one of those champions that you mentioned that I find to actually piss me off is Singed, and even then, not that much. The counterplay to Yorick was simple- Just walk away from his ghouls. They're slower than you, I'm pretty sure. Even still, Yorick did better in longer trades, since his ghouls could rack up damage as well as his E's ghoul healing him. He really wasn't that oppressive, or even annoying, in lane. I've shit on my fair share of Yoricks in lane before.

Riot should have just made a new champion and let the few people that enjoyed Galio to continue to play him. To be honest, for such an early champion, his kit was pretty damn well designed, especially when you look at champions like Sion (who I loved, but I admit had some pretty bad problems).

noxus is opMar 25, 20172 votes

actually i know for a fact thats a dam lie. i remember the few times i laned against a yorick. everytime i went near farm he would just spell check my ass. "u want this minion? nope" thats how laning against old yorick was, he was cancer to face and generic asf once he left lane. now new yorick doesnt have to depend on his ult to be useful and has good dueling that isnt cancerous a little utility and options in general.

Wind WhistlerMar 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=noxus is op,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpvHjNFx,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T11:53:25.902+0000)

actually i know for a fact thats a dam lie. i remember the few times i laned against a yorick. everytime i went near farm he would just spell check my ass. "u want this minion? nope" thats how laning against old yorick was, he was cancer to face and generic asf once he left lane. now new yorick doesnt have to depend on his ult to be useful and has good dueling that isnt cancerous a little utility and options in general.

Then he ran out of mana and had to recall, or else you'd jump on him and destroy him. Also, have you ever thought about, I don't know, making a bunch of short trades with him? Also, he didn't depend on his ult to be useful. He did a shit ton of damage late game.

New Yorick also depends on his ult to do anything outside of his lane. Also, I don't think pressing two buttons to make you lose 60% of your HP in lane is "healthy" gameplay.

Fine, maybe the New Yorick is actually healthier than the Old, but it's REALLY not by that much.

noxus is opMar 26, 20171 votes

no for some reason the yoricks i laned against were pretty good at whittling me down b4 i could fight back but yeah i agree with you old and new yorick are still really similar other than thematics and slight gameplay tuning to modernize his kit. he still kinda relies on his ult to do stuff for sure but he doesnt really on it also he looks kinda cool when he does stuff lol.

Wind WhistlerMar 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=noxus is op,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpvHjNFx,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-26T16:00:44.278+0000)

no for some reason the yoricks i laned against were pretty good at whittling me down b4 i could fight back but yeah i agree with you old and new yorick are still really similar other than thematics and slight gameplay tuning to modernize his kit. he still kinda relies on his ult to do stuff for sure but he doesnt really on it also he looks kinda cool when he does stuff lol.

As I said, short trades. In order to win a trade, he'd have to dump all three of his abilities out in order to rack up ghoul damage and get that 15% damage reduction from his passive, and early game, before he could max his abilities, they were on rather long cooldowns. Even if he used all three abilities, he wouldn't have won the trade by much unless you stood there and allowed his ghouls to auto attack the shit out of you. After his abilities were down, you would have time to farm, and after a few more trades, he would have to recall to get more mana, or risk being killed. Even when he got a tear for mana sustain, he would be missing out on getting that 10 or 7 (depending on which item you bought) bonus AD from a Long Sword or Doran's blade. This was the main reason he wasn't as good of a lane bully as people said he was. He'd have to put himself slightly behind you stat-wise in order to survive. But once late game hit, where all his abilities were maxed out and he had 40% CDR, along with a lot of AD and some armor and magic resist, he was an absolute monster. He would just mow down anyone who got in his way. His ultimate was insurance in case you did focus him down hard enough to kill him. If you kill the new Yorick when he has his ult out, then it's over. He's dead and you don't have to worry about him anymore.

LadyRenlyMar 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Riot ruins a lot of fun champs. Look at Yorick and Galio.

downvoted by all the nonexistent Yorick players. Lol nobody plays that boring trash.

Leaf on BushMar 25, 20171 votes

I like the new Yorick, he is 10 times better than the old one. So take my downvote.

Wind WhistlerMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

downvoted by all the nonexistent Yorick players. Lol nobody plays that boring trash.

I'm surprised your comment actually got downvoted.

Also, a lot of my friends played Yorick, and I did, too. That's at least 11 people. I'm sure there are several hundred people who mained Yorick. That may seem like not a lot, because millions of people play this game, but a hundred people is still a hundred people. A hundred is a pretty big number.

Sire HippingtonMar 25, 20171 votes

And it's even more aids to play against...

Leaf on BushMar 25, 20173 votes

I this pbe? If so it would be nice if you could give more context.

Also it doesn't look like it would affect tank or AD shaco, it just helps AP shaco to get more consistent damage.

They added some AP scaling to the backstab... I mean how can you misinterpret this change so hard? lul

Big LincolnMar 24, 20172 votes

fuckin riot

Golden Tager XMar 25, 20172 votes

Shaco item 3146 item 3089 item 3031

I see nothing wrong here.

MunchCrunchLunchMar 25, 20172 votes

one shot out of invis with titanic was getting too old.

BisaknospMar 25, 20171 votes

'hardest champ in the game'

xddddd

Sire HippingtonMar 25, 20171 votes

yea, one shot from out of invis with gunblade is much better...

AhristocatsMar 26, 20171 votes

he isn't tanking damage if he gets gunblade

Sire HippingtonMar 26, 20171 votes

nor is titanic shaco actually oneshoting people unless really ahead. No matter what way shaco builts, whenever he's strong he's pretty bullshit to deal with. That's the case since i started playing in preseason 1 and never changed a bit...

Illâoi Evê SiônMar 24, 20171 votes

More importantly, why is the number still white when it no longer scales with level?

LyingOnLineMar 24, 20171 votes

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/927/720/cb6.png

RalanrMar 24, 20171 votes

That looks like a Jojo reference. Part 8 grandfather Stand.

LyingOnLineMar 24, 20171 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/200/399/7cb.jpg

CrossbowRangerMar 24, 20171 votes

Don't tank items have CDR anyway?

AhristocatsMar 24, 20173 votes

it's not about CDR

tank shaco abuses titanic hydra that procs on his ult also abuses the durability of the build to proc the passive a lot of time to deal 145% bonus damage

and now riot nerfed it to 130% but added an ap ratio

Fisher No ChainsMar 25, 20175 votes

Actually it's a buff for the early game, and a nerf for late... It used to be 120% at early levels.

His lv 2/3 gank is gonna be even more annoying I'm afraid. :(

AhristocatsMar 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

His lv 2/3 gank is gonna be even worse I'm afraid. :(

he actually doesn't do that much in early game because of his Q invisibility duration, and E base damage that aren't good in early lvls

Leaf on BushMar 25, 20171 votes

And a level 2/3 gank is not early game? What am I reading here?

Fisher No ChainsMar 25, 20171 votes

Fixed.

I meant that it's worse for the guy who gets ganked. Shaco was already annoying with his bs stealth, now that he'll deal 10% more damage I just feel the urge to ban him even more.

Leaf on BushMar 25, 20171 votes

And you didn't think it would be reasonable to mention how they changed the crit damage? If you want to slaughter pbe changes that are not final anway with your extremely biased attitude AT LEAST be thorough and don't create such a half assed topics.

On tank Shaco, a lot of his damage comes from red smite, cinder, ignite, hydra and he gains most of his presence just by TANKING. A few percent less backstab damage will barely make a diffrence especially if you use titanic hydra and do additional damage with every hit.

It's also a buff in early game and i think that's more important for any kind of Shaco build, since they all start with pretty much the same stats.

doodlebob666Mar 24, 20171 votes

isn't crit shaco fine with this tho, since crits just ignore the passive if it rolls one

the boogey manMar 25, 20171 votes

crit shaco would not be happy with this because they lost the damage off there q. RIP

Supreme Senpai69Mar 25, 20171 votes

Maybe it'd be too strong with an AD ratio? Seems like they're supporting either AD or AP. If it crits for 130% then well, that scales with AD. But if you're building AP Shaco then isn't that passive useless? Now it's not imo

Could be wrong don't really play Shaco. Just what it seems like by looking at this single picture you posted

AhristocatsMar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpvHjNFx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-03-25T09:54:06.244+0000)

Maybe it'd be too strong with an AD ratio?

it would do the same thing: stop him from playing tank with titanic hydra but with an ad ratio he would be played as an ad champ

would it be too strong? you can lower the ratio enough for it to be balanced

Supreme Senpai69Mar 25, 20171 votes

Like I said I'unno things I'm more of an idea guy. But why lower the ratio and add an AD bonus when you can raise the ratio and add an AP bonus?

AhristocatsMar 25, 20171 votes

the ratio wasn't raised, it's a buff for early game (not goanna change too much he can't really do things in early game because of his Q duration and E rank 1 damage) and a nerf to mid/late game since the ratio went from 120-145% to 130% at all ranks

in exchange they added an ap ratio, so if shaco wants to do damage he has to go full AP the reason they did this is because ap shaco is way more balanced than ad shaco, he's gated by cooldowns, by the placement of boxes and ult timer, his damage is single target, unlike AD shaco can kill multiple people if he isn't behind just with auto-attacks and ult auto-attacks

but AP shaco isn't fun like i said, if you don't believe me try it

SpecterVonBarenMar 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpvHjNFx,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T10:14:16.486+0000)

the ratio wasn't raised, it's a buff for early game (not goanna change too much he can't really do things in early game because of his Q duration and E rank 1 damage)

I.... "Shaco can't do things in the early game"... what even is....

Dominick DestineMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I.... "Shaco can't do things in the early game"... what even is....

This.

I can't believe OP was a member of Diamond Pride.....

Wet DrymanMar 25, 20171 votes

AD Shaco builds Infinity Edge anyway so I don't think it will be much of a problem.

the boogey manMar 25, 20171 votes

I'm just going to say as a Shaco main, this is a def nerf. realistically both ap, ad, and tank shaco lose damage from (q) so it does look like there is going to be 1 optimal build now, where as, even ap shaco is viable (thought not the best) current game. He does now, however; get the (q) where timer is shorter, and when he hits a target, the CD is even lower, so he's going to be able to pop in and out really well. I could possibly see all off this working, if maybe they put actually poison* damage on his shiv (DoT). Not looking forward to the change, but id still play it, and prob run gunblade, lichbane, lucidity-tabi-mobo, hourglass, deathcap core, and frozen fist, void staff, abyssal scepter, or if lead is strong enough, IE as 6th item.

RexSaurMar 26, 20171 votes

AP shaco is aids to play against too.

SwiftKitten88Mar 26, 20171 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiGzXEL7T8w

WarHero54Mar 27, 20171 votes

This is a nerf as shaco's Q damage is removed entirely. To even get the same damage as Q as late game shaco, even as a full ap shaco, you need 2 backstabs to make up for the Q damage (good luck trying that late game as you will die if your not anything else but the stupid bruiser build) which is a really bad nerf. In short this gutted every build of shaco but the stupid op bruiser build which should have been nerfed