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Can we allow Talon to cast spells mid-air[wall jump] already?

Wukong Airlines··17 votes·839 views

I don't understand why this isn't a thing yet. It was one of the most logically expected things he should be allowed to do.

Why can he cast R but not W for example? His Q range is a disaster, and I'd suggest it gets an ADDITIONAL range mid air since he's jumping from a higher place which should give him more range compared to a ground jump.

And speaking of wall jump, if you wanna consider the fact that irl you need to boost your speed to get the best out of your jump, shouldn't be Talon having the same mechanic? [A pre-wall jump or post wall jump movement speed steriod (post wall jump MS steroid is justified by the gravity and landing momentum)]

Here's my WISH LIST on how to make Talon's kit more interactive:-

  • Talon is able to cast all spells mid air
  • Talon's Q gains additional range mid air
  • Talon gains a MS boost just before he jumps/post landing.

Not all of the above should be applied through, that would make him overloaded, but I must say Talon still needs a Passive on his E anyways, it best fits the MS boost.

18 Comments

PopcornBunni13 votes

That isn't making his kit more interactive, it's just making him stronger.

Adding interaction would be adding power in ways that his opponent can engage with. Like I think he's fine, but with the goal of, say, adding more delayed burst into his assassin kit while giving him more to play around with, for example, he'd need changes that both add counterplay and shift power.

Passive: Blade's End Damage changed to true, base damage up but scaling down, bleed time slowed Damage 60-160 +200% Bonus AD ---> 80-200 +140% Bonus AD Damage type Physical -> True Bleed time 2 seconds -> 3 seconds NEW! Basic attacks now refresh wounds if the target has less than three NEW! Now stacks on epic monsters

Q: Noxian Diplomacy Base damage and scaling down, but now has an execute mechanic Damage: 60/85/110/135/160 -> 50/65/80/105/120 Damage scaling: 110% Bonus AD -> 90% Bonus AD NEW! Noxian Diplomacy deals 150% damage against targets below 30% of their max health (Stacks with enhanced damage for up to 225% damage) REMOVED: 50% Cooldown reduction on unit kill REMOVED: Heal for 20-71 health on unit kill NEW!: If Noxian Diplomacy kills its target, Talon recieves a shield for 20/40/60/80/100 (+100% Bonus AD) health that disapears after 2 seconds. This shield's strength and duration are doubled if the target is a champion.

R: Shadow Assault Slower to start to allow reaction, but with more total movement allowed throughout NEW! Talon becomes untargetable and intangible (but not invisible) for .75 seconds before the blades come out NEW! The spell can now be aimed preemtively. When Talon turns invisible he'll blink to the target location within 300 units after the .75 second channel

For the changes you propose, you add nothing for the opponent in compensation; just straight buffs. He'd need something like slower vault time or something with those changes, bare minimum.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

I don't like any of these tbh.

Passive is a short duration bleed because the long duration one just took too long and didn't make sense for someone trying to kill quick and get out to have their target burst them down for 5 more seconds. 2 is still meh honestly, 3 no thanks.

I like the heal and CD reset on Q. It's what let's him mid lane. I understand the shield could work similarly but I'd rather the perma health gain for when the enemy isn't harassing you.

R just sounds wonky.

Besides, I like the idea of casting stuff right out of wall hop more. Right now it definitely looks clunky when Talon hops over, sits in one spot for a moment then moves. Especially if your first cast is W, then he just looks ridiculous with the E+W cast times.

If damage/mobility takes a hit to compensate then so be it.

nm10101 votes

Ignoring the parts that are already on his kit these changes would make him much worse to play against when he is ahead and much worse to play as when he is behind.

Mordepool10 votes

What kinda of no counterplay Bullshit are you suggesting?

Wukong Airlines1 votes

The no counterplay award goes to Khazix JarvanIV J, unlike them, talon needs to hit 3 stacks passive + AA

Void Baboon RF9 votes

I like how this garbage is being upvoted. It's like going can we give MF 100 more range already. Sure buddy, lets do that.

Wukong Airlines1 votes

because im nearing 1mil with talon and i know what I'm saying. ty

ChuShoe6 votes

I can be nearing 1 mil with Nidalee (someone I still consider my main) and people would be outraged if I said "make it so she can W to leap to targets from ANY range as long as target is hit with any of her human abilities"

I'd even say that's broken. When you suggest something that reduces counterplay towards a champion you play it shows that you more or less don't know what you're talking about in terms of balance.

Salron4 votes

Talon doesn't need buffs

Pæan2 votes

Could see it working, but would require a trade-off. Q range being increased could work seeing as he could "push" off the wall, but maybe make it a straight line thing and makes him roll and be slowed IF he misses a target completely, thus adding counterplay if you can sidestep or flash.

W off a wall could be longer range because it's from a higher vantage point technically, but why not make him throw a longer kunai-esque knife as opposed to his normal shuriken triple throw.

E if held, can allow talon to perch on the wall and maybe allow him to jump directly to another wall or even wall run atop a wall for a few seconds ala Naruto. Possibly if he gets hit during this he can fall off and be slowed/stunned upon hitting the ground.

Teridax682 votes

I think the main tradeoff here is one of fluidity versus counterplay, where allowing casts to happen while dashing would make Talon more fluid, but would lower his opponent's window of reaction. Personally, I believe assassins should always be made as fluid as possible, and their counterplay should not rely on them being less responsive than they should be. In this respect, I'd like Talon to be able to cast while dashing, but I'd also want to make sure that he offers meaningful counterplay at all times to his victims. This could be something as simple as increasing the return delay on his W, for example. Beyond that, though, I'm not as enthusiastic at the thought of buffing his Q range mid-dash, unless he were more aggressively retuned all around to be more reliant on immediately ambushing targets from over walls.

ChuShoe2 votes

Please no, I despise talon's E so much already. To me he is literally viable yasuo WITH range and more mobility.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Please no, I despise talon's E so much already. To me he is literally viable yasuo WITH range and more mobility.

There is nothing about the two that is similar beyond them both being AD. Not even Melee is similar since Yas has very long auto range for a melee champ.

ChuShoe1 votes

they're both annoying as h*ck, they both have annoying dashes on their E.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

they're both annoying as h*ck, they both have annoying dashes on their E.

Thats it? I guess katarina is like Yasuo two them. Hell, by your metric, she is more like Yasuo than Talon since hers is actually used in lane unlike Talon.

ChuShoe1 votes

Yes but Katarina doesn't have a 25% first blood rate in any game she's in, and she doesn't have the most annoying level 2 powerspike.

Her E is on a significant cooldown at earlier levels, and doesn't grant her an almost unstoppable escape everytime she's in a dangerous spot.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Talon is fine and doesnt need buffs. The last thing i need is for my boi to get Yasuo'd with pointless buffs.

Akenero1 votes

Adding additional power to talking in this method is veeery poor choice. An experienced talking is already able to instantly burst someone and get out with no effort. The window where you can't act during a jump gives opponents the reaction time they need to react to him. The change you're suggesting would lead to a combo of e, w while the opponents are just noticing you exist, q and auto within a quarter of a second of the opponents even seeing you in the first place.

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