Swain's Problem and Easy Fix

Smitemuffin··1 votes·706 views

Swain needs tons of mana, 2 HP+AP items, maxed CDR, high AP, high mag pen, armor and mag res. These are his baseline necessities to function properly and He cannot do so without them. Granted, he can get all of that...at full build. But as any Swain player can tell you, he pops like a balloon at late game.

At late game, 145 armor (roughly 18 plus Zhonyas total) is NOTHING. Marksmen negate half of it anyway. 103 Mag Res (base+ME glyphs+Abyssal) is pitiful. Anything gets a void staff and you're done, nevermind Swain has to be in Abyssal range to do anything. 2700 HP (18+Liandry's+10-stack RoA) is just pathetic, especially on something with low resistances. By the time you get all that, it doesn't matter anymore. Observe:

  1. MAX CDR is absolutely necessary because his cooldowns are all high to the point of absurdity. 20% is practically nothing when the LOWEST his basic spells can get at max rank is 10 seconds. Even 30% is far too little.

  2. Void Staff is mandatory if any enemy builds a single MR item. PERIOD.

  3. Magic Resist is non-negotiable

  4. Zhonyas is a must-have

  5. Boots are a must-have

  6. RoA is only about half the necessary mana, even at full stacks

  7. RoA is only about 2/3 of the health he needs, even at full stacks

  8. He needs as much magic penetration as he can POSSIBLY have to help compensate for his low damage/mana efficiency

So that leaves us with a champ who needs at a bare minimum: 40% CDR, ~800 bonus hp, ~1000 bonus mana, at least 100 total magic resist, at least 120 total armor (and that's still very low), high mag pen, about 500 AP

That means you need: Morellonomicon, RoA, Zhonyas, Abyssal, Sorc Shoes and Liandry's just to get the mana, defenses, CDR and mag pen to kill carries. But it took a full 6 item build to hit the bare minimum needed stats.

There is an easy and obvious solution to most of this: Swain's ult needs to drain defensive stats in stacking increments on each hit of his ultimate. Torment should amplify that effect. Few mages can debuff stats, giving Swain a niche useful in any meta. It also lowers the efficiency of stacking resistances, which allows him to opt for more HP items. It also makes Lucidity boots less punishing to buy. To top it all off, if he has survivability, it leaves more room to tweak his damage, cc duration and mana costs so he isn't always on the line of always winning for his team when he's buffed and always winning for the enemy team when he isn't.

7 Comments

Silly Neeko1 votes

I do not claim to main Swain but I have played him enough to know that, although I do understand where you are coming from..... His build is just as situational as anything else. Magic pen is NOT a requirement because most of the time the enemy does not build quite as much magic resist (carries might get a GA but thats as far as their defences go) depending on how your team comp is set up. If your team has 3 magic damage champs, a tank, and an adc..... Ofcourse you will have troubles doing damage.

That said, I have found ROA, Spirit Visage, Swiftness boots, frozen heart, void staff, and the last item is really just up to you. I never pay enough attention to the stats enough to tell you what you would get from that build, but it is fairly versitile. Visage would give 10% cdr and increase the healing from his ulti, and Frozen heart will give 20% cdr and 100 armor, along with 400 mana (if i remember correctly), and would reduce attack speed of enemies in range, while swiftness boots give 60 move speed and reduce slows. All of this would still meet your "minimum" requirements for swain depending on what you choose for the last item except MABEY the ability power. It will also make him tankier and much more likely to get in and out of fights with kills. If you get the 2.5% damage to slowed targets mastery in the ferocity tree, and get a rylia's crystal scepter, you would be slowing with your ultimate while doing additional damage as well.

The thing about Swain is he is the Master Tactician, meaning you are needing to put a little strategy into your plays. His cooldowns are so long because he has two damage over time, single target spells. His ultimate is an AOE damage to things around him that also heals himself.... I feel the way you want to try and play him is like a burst mage, but he just simply is not going to be bursting anyone.

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's why your only Swain game on match history went 3/9

The fact that his spells are single-target DOT is WHY he needs low cooldowns. Look at how ridiculously low his DPS is.

Averaged over a 10-second increment and max spell ranks:

Q: 440+120%AP W: 240+70% AP E: 204+120% AP R: 900+200% AP

that works out to:

1786 + 310% AP = 179 +31% AP per second

That's it. At 500 AP, you only do 334 PER SECOND. Adjusting for Torment first, you only hit about 380 per second at a 500 AP full-damage build.

Even full tank champs can out-damage that easily. And a lot of them can do it while out sustaining, like Mundo or Garen

Silly Neeko1 votes

I also have never said I was the greatest with him, but i have played him more than once I can assure you. Try that build before trying to bring up match history which does not show exactly what happened to lead to each event. Do not try to write off someones suggestion to you just because you want him changed and so you will find even the most silly of things to sweep the suggestion under the rug.

That said, that 334 damage per second is still pretty gruesome, because as you said, thats with a full damage build (which isnt really full damage, seeing as you can easily get 700 ap and some hp, just not as much armor and magic resistance. With the 500 ap you are saying, that is still an 800 damage E, with a 1040 damage Q over the duration. That is not accounting for the damage increase from the E either. That 2 spell combo alone rivals most champion's 3-4 spell combos. Yes, it is damage over time, which means even if you leave, or they leave, they are still taking it. The only two champions i can think of that can rival that at all is malzahar, and brand.

While it can be out sustained, that is why you might grab a morello, if you add it to the build i had said, it would have a 10% cdr overlap that would be useless, but it would give you grevious wounds that would cut their sustain if they ever got under 40% hp, along with another 80 ap. The point here is still, if you look at what you said, you want him as a BURST mage. His kit is not made to burst like a leblanc. It is made to be along the same lines as singed.

Smitemuffin1 votes

334 damage per second is NOTHING. That's before Mag Res by the way, so you'll lose about 20% (66 or so) of that even against carries with little bonus MR.

Most ADC can out-DPS 334 with just two items and basic attacks. Thats fine...If everyone is 4 items behind you

Silly Neeko1 votes

{quoted}

334 damage per second is NOTHING. That's before Mag Res by the way, so you'll lose about 20% (66 or so) of that even against carries with little bonus MR.

Most ADC can out-DPS 334 with just two items and basic attacks. Thats fine...If everyone is 4 items behind you

Read the comment that was said. You are worried about dps, which should be worried about for BURST champions. Champions like leblanc that can BURST 2-3k damage in 3-4 spells. Swain is a dot SUSTAIN champion meaning he can do decent damage OVER TIME he can do 1.8k damage with 2 spells OVER TIME.

Stop trying to make Swain a burst champion and stop trying to play him as one. If you want a burst champion look for Brand for aoe burst, LeBlanc for mostly single target burst, Zed or Talon for AD burst, or theres even Annie for burst out of mid laners. Swain is a sustained damage champ not a burst damage champion.

If you need other examples they can be provided. I will repeat again for clarification though..... SWAIN IS SUSTAINED DAMAGE OVER TIME CHAMPION. So DPS is just about useless to compare with him.

Think of it along the same lines as a field of Teemo shrooms..... You want it to be more like the blinding dart for instant damage, but it is more along the lines of his toxic shot for sustained damage.

In fights if you even get the chance to fight their carry alone, you are BOTH in the wrong because that means you are BOTH seperated from your teams, and unless you are split pushing (which usually results in one enemy distraction, and then 2-4 enemies coming from behind you) you should not be too far from your team. Which means your DPS is going to be joined with your TEAMS DPS which means their people have a choice, target you, or target them. Any way you look at it, they will be taking heavy damage as long as you learn what your champion's kit is able to do. Swain's kit is NOT for DPS, it is for DOT.

jusho11 votes

how he has been changed now he is a drain life tank mage. when u get item 3010 anditem 3070 your ult dosnt drain your mana in a fight. what i do is get those and item 3116 to slow everyone near me and play chase the bird in fights. walking around slowing with my ult/item 3116 combo using my Q for slow and W to root with all the slowing and rooting while healing your self your a peal tank

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Swain just needs Q's size range increased and the delay removed from ulti otherwise he's fine as is.

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