Okay, is anyone playing bot lane anymore?

Aimléss·Jun 17, 2018·20 votes·12,609 views

That role has gotta be even more dead than support. I have que'd mid/bot 10 times in a row, and I have literally gotten bot 7/10 times as a secondary. Role might be dead lol.

95 Comments

OtterlyLostJun 17, 201823 votes

As an ADC main, I'm not playing it. I'm barely playing at all. That's what happens when you alienate an entire portion of players.

MoldyCheese1Jun 17, 20186 votes

well i mean that was top for like a year, same with supports but now there absolute bullshit and no ones really too happy.

idk [sg-janna]

OtterlyLostJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

well i mean that was top for like a year, same with supports but now there absolute bullshit and no ones really too happy.

idk [sg-janna]

Top was never like this unless you were a tank.

MoldyCheese1Jun 17, 20181 votes

the role being auto-filled and just auto pick tank is not a prime example of what your trying to say in this post? [sg-ahri-1]

OtterlyLostJun 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the role being auto-filled and just auto pick tank is not a prime example of what your trying to say in this post? [sg-ahri-1]

No? I'm saying top was never high on autofill and the only class of champs I ever felt unviable top were tanks. If I was ever autofilled when i was playing ADC it was usually to jungle or support or even, sometimes, mid. Never went to top because, despite their whinging, top mains still like to be top even though it literally puts them away from all of the action. They'll complain top has the least amount of influence but then still go top. :shrugs: Top players are weird.

Dont Quit ILY Jun 17, 20182 votes

Hashinshin displays top lane mentality well in his statement regarding how all he wants to do is murder his laner and split push, When I mained top lane that was exactly what I wanted to do. Yorick was bae back then and I still have a spot in my heart for that little pusher.

ankoanko19Jun 17, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Top was never like this unless you were a tank.

lmao top was literally the least picked role by a mile before 8.9. The only server where top was actually contested was in Vietnam

GayFluffyUnicornJun 17, 20181 votes

Even now ranking up my new main account from gold 5 to now high plat i havent been autofilled once in 45 games. Qing top/mid. Last game yesterday i got my secondary role mid for the first time. Even in low elo noone plays top anymore.

charge attackJun 17, 20186 votes

Even Riot showed that Top lane is played equal to support ONLY in very high elo. Besides that Top was picked more than JG/support and less than adc/mid.

Also they showed that people usually get their main role 85% of games, so that’s not really a measure of shit. If you’re queuing top/mid you’ll almost always get top. Same is true for sup/mid, adc/mid, JG/mid.

Stop making up bullshit to fit your narrative.

HyquiemJun 19, 20181 votes

Did you everyone just forget the midlane drama of assasins. Or do you all think when they roam they aren’t junglers?

Sewer SideJun 17, 20187 votes

“B-But adcs are really good with 5 items and two dedicated supports at 45 minutes”

- Boards

OtterlyLostJun 17, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dgNgV3Ah,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-06-17T15:22:11.743+0000)

“B-But adcs are really good with 5 items and two dedicated supports at 45 minutes”

- Boards

Yeah! :D they're not terrible or unfun to play; its enjoyable for them to get rolled over by mages and bruisers who have cheaper item spikes.

CeazaruJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

As an ADC main, I'm not playing it. I'm barely playing at all. That's what happens when you alienate an entire portion of players.

Aw, is the adc main sad because he finally has to deal with what bruiser,mage,assassins,tanks mains have been going threw for years. Sure maybe marksman was over nerfed but that doesn't exclude the fact that you have literally dominated the game for years and now that you have to adapt and get better like you guys have been telling every other class main for years you start whining. God forbid that marksmen can't invalidate entire classes that people have been maining for years anymore.

OtterlyLostJun 17, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Aw, is the adc main sad because he finally has to deal with what bruiser,mage,assassins,tanks mains have been going threw for years. Sure maybe marksman was over nerfed but that doesn't exclude the fact that you have literally dominated the game for years and now that you have to adapt and get better like you guys have been telling every other class main for years you start whining. God forbid that marksmen can't invalidate entire classes that people have been maining for years anymore.

I never told other players to just adapt when their picks were bad. I've never seen the word "adapt" thrown around from anyone before the nerfs to ADC which means the only people saying it now are top and mid mains who have no idea how bad the champions in this class are and have no idea how vastly different the playstyles these champions have are from every other champion in the game. In fact, when jungle got nerfed into the state it was, no one told junglers to adapt and stop whining; everyone was upset for junglers. Maybe everyone should get over the dumbass double standard.
Marksmen have not dominated the game. They have the least agency over their own games and the three roles that have the biggest impact, at the end of the day, are jungle, mid, and support. This has always been true but its particularly bad for the last few seasons. A fed marksmen literally means nothing if their team are a bunch of apes who pick bad fights. They can't solo push; they're weak and squishy so they fall prey to everything else in the game so they're literally at the mercy of whether their support is smart enough and good enough to keep them alive. They dont get to solo carry like other roles; too many games have I left bot lane 5/0 but the rest of the map had already inted 20 kills and the strength of the bruiser top or the mage mid or the assassin jungler on the enemy team matters a million times more than my own strength. Its demoralizing and extremely frustrating and obviously not my fault that the enemy mid is two levels higher than me and can one shot me with the same amount of items and gold. Marksmen have always had next to zero solo carry potential and are so dependent on how skillful their support is its painful. How many games have I lost bot because my support can't land skillshots or dodge a hook and is 0/3 before I'm even level 6? And then it turns around and is my fault somehow that the enemy ADC has a full item and I have only half of one, despite 0 deaths and the same number of farm. How many lanes have I lost because the jungler tucked up a gank or chose a terrible time to come? Or how many times has there been four people in my lane and even if I don't die, it doesn't matter because they just got first turret and the rest of the team is just jacking off?
Marksmen have always been a staple of the game and have always been bot but so have mages, assassins, and bruisers, just with every single other position in the game. People still played mages to great success in Assassin metas, bruisers were still decent picks in tank metas, and assassins have always had a niche as well. And all of these classes have had multiple positions and places by which they could actually go. Mages could go mid and top, assassins and bruisers could go jungle, mid, and top. Marksmen, however, weren't ever allowed to go anywhere beyond bot. Yet everyone is crying for diversity diversity diversity while shoving marksmen out of the one position they've been balanced for. And riot is literally making no moves this season to rebalance marksmen so that they could go to solo lanes and play somewhere else. So apparently diversity only matters for bruisers, mages, and assassins. Marksmen aren't allowed to wish for equal lane diversity. Instead they have to sit bot and keep relying on their team.
Marksmen have never invalidated any class in the game.That would imply that they were ever on equal footing with any of the other classes or that they were ever allowed to other lanes. Marksmen have never prevented people from being able to play assassins, mages, and bruisers. Assassins have invalidated mages but no one talks about that. And bruisers have invalidated tanks but no, that's not worth talking about either. Marksmen have never invalidated any other role; instead, I'd hazard that they have been the ones completely invalidated by this asinine and lazy patch from riot.
Even if any of your points were ever true, they dont make the fact that marksmen are garbage now okay. You openly admit that they were over nerfed and that isn't okay, no matter what bullshit circle jerking you made up in your head might tell you. It is never okay to alienate groups of people from a game or social event just because you have some personal, unsupported prejudice against them. Marksmen are garbage and its not acceptable that riot has done this to them nor that they have 0 intention of fixing them nor that they seem to have no intention of opening up lane diversity for these champions or providing them with any form of ability to solo carry like all of the other champions in this game. This is all unacceptable and screams intense laziness on the part of the balance team.

In short, its intense bullshit what they've done to the class and playstyle of champions I enjoy and if I'm opting not to play because I'm unsatsified as a customer then that's my prerogative. I did, afterall, spend money on this game and have every right to expect the devs to make it enjoyable for me.

CeazaruJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Marksmen have never invalidated any class in the game.That would imply that they were ever on equal footing with any of the other classes or that they were ever allowed to other lanes. Marksmen have never prevented people from being able to play assassins, mages, and bruisers. Assassins have invalidated mages but no one talks about that. And bruisers have invalidated tanks but no, that's not worth talking about either. Marksmen have never invalidated any other role; instead, I'd hazard that they have been the ones completely invalidated by this asinine and lazy patch from riot.

Oh really then tell me why have marksmen until now made every other classes nonviable in the bot lane. Marksmen were literally mandatory to play in bot lane because literally every other class couldn't compete. Now that there is more bot diversity marksmen mains don't like the game. No, you guys like going against the same thing and building the same thing all season that's why you guys are now in full panic mode because now you finally have to learn how to play against other classes than just marksmen. Every lane has had other than bot has had to deal with multiple classes being able to play in their lane. Top lane has tanks, bruiser,mages,assassins and even some marksmen. Jungle has Tanks, assassins and bruisers. Mid lane has Assassins, Mages and even some marksmen. What has been able to be played bot until now? nothing but marksmen. Marksmen forced every other class out of bot lane because they couldn't compete with the safe poke, consistent damage and scaling of marksmen.

Triumphant MindJun 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Oh really then tell me why have marksmen until now made every other classes nonviable in the bot lane. Marksmen were literally mandatory to play in bot lane because literally every other class couldn't compete. Now that there is more bot diversity marksmen mains don't like the game. No, you guys like going against the same thing and building the same thing all season that's why you guys are now in full panic mode because now you finally have to learn how to play against other classes than just marksmen. Every lane has had other than bot has had to deal with multiple classes being able to play in their lane. Top lane has tanks, bruiser,mages,assassins and even some marksmen. Jungle has Tanks, assassins and bruisers. Mid lane has Assassins, Mages and even some marksmen. What has been able to be played bot until now? nothing but marksmen. Marksmen forced every other class out of bot lane because they couldn't compete with the safe poke, consistent damage and scaling of marksmen.

you know you couldve done any of that before the nerfs ex swain adc,lulu no one was stopping any one from playing these things

CeazaruJun 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triumphant Mind,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dgNgV3Ah,comment-id=00000004000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-18T00:24:32.722+0000)

you know you couldve done any of that before the nerfs ex swain adc,lulu no one was stopping any one from playing these things

I love how you conveniently forgot that marksmen has been absolutely mandatory to have on your team till now.

Triumphant MindJun 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I love how you conveniently forgot that marksmen has been absolutely mandatory to have on your team till now.

lol well i haven't been playing that long so how am i supposed to know Ceazru

OmegaNITROJun 18, 20184 votes

The reason most other champs didn't go bot before was because most other classes value experience more, gold less, and do not need a lane partner to survive being engaged on.

So it actually made no sense for them to sacrifice solo exp for a support.

The other champs were not weaker laners than marksmen, marksmen did better with sacrificing level advantage for item advantage, and worked optimally with a support that could help them sustain and zone their lane.

That style isn't optimal for other classes.

The reason those other classes are in a lane that doesn't suit them NOW is because even with less exp and an enemy support they still shit on marksmen and can power spike and end the game before marksmen can do anything about it.

If other classes couldn't compete with marksmen in lane, marksmen would be good in solo lanes. Most of them lose to every other type of champ in solo lanes since well before these nerfs, and they still do.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

CeazaruJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The reason most other champs didn't go bot before was because most other classes value experience more, gold less, and do not need a lane partner to survive being engaged on.

So it actually made no sense for them to sacrifice solo exp for a support.

The other champs were not weaker laners than marksmen, marksmen did better with sacrificing level advantage for item advantage, and worked optimally with a support that could help them sustain and zone their lane.

That style isn't optimal for other classes.

The reason those other classes are in a lane that doesn't suit them NOW is because even with less exp and an enemy support they still shit on marksmen and can power spike and end the game before marksmen can do anything about it.

If other classes couldn't compete with marksmen in lane, marksmen would be good in solo lanes. Most of them lose to every other type of champ in solo lanes since well before these nerfs, and they still do.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you denying that marksmen used to and still do out scale every other carry class and are you forgetting that for almost the majority of this season marksmen were able to reach their late status before any other carry class had the chance to be effective because of item cost and marksmen scaling they would out perform every other class at 2 items. Marksmen are still playable and you can still win with them. They just don't scale as fast as they used to or have you not played a season 8 game till 8.12?

OtterlyLostJun 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Are you denying that marksmen used to and still do out scale every other carry class and are you forgetting that for almost the majority of this season marksmen were able to reach their late status before any other carry class had the chance to be effective because of item cost and marksmen scaling they would out perform every other class at 2 items. Marksmen are still playable and you can still win with them. They just don't scale as fast as they used to or have you not played a season 8 game till 8.12?

I didn't misunderstand you. I countered it with were you able to play all of these champions somewhere else? If the answer is yes, I really fail to understand what the hell the issue is of allowing marksmen to have one lane that they are specifically created and balanced around going to. I never understood why mages, assassins, fighters, and tanks get to have the entirety of the map and then expect to get to have bot too. Its greedy as shit considering they have far more control over their games and outcomes than marksmen do, they require far less team cooperation than marksmen do, they get strong power spikes while still scaling decently well, they all can 1v1 and win against a marksmen as long as they dont majorly screw it up. Why do they need to own bot lane as well when they already own top, mid, and jungle and even sometimes support? In what universe is it okay for people who dont even play bot lane to decide what should be viable in it? Clearly there are players who play marksmen who dont want diversity, who are happy playing just marksmen bot lane. This is supported by the fact the role overall is just played less and more people are getting autofilled into it. Bot lane players are abandoning it in droves. Not only that but, as so many people have pointed out, marksmen are still the primary champions being picked bot; you can choose to take this as a symptom of them being "viable." Or you could also take it as an equally likely option that marksmen players still prefer to play marksmen over other champions; that they aren't interested in the other classes and that they took and still take marksmen bot specifically because that is just who they want to play.

And sure, marksmen are playable but the difference between playable and enjoyable. I dont enjoy playing unrewarding champions. They are intended the outscale most things in the game but the sacrifices they make are fucking massive. If a yi or a jax gets fed and makes it to late game, guess what? They actually have the ability to solo carry. They aren't tied down to a support and they dont have to pray their team will protect them adequately. Do you understand or even comprehend how rewarding that feels or how satisfactory that is? Marksmen flatly do not have that.

The basic fact is that Marksmen. Cant. Solo. Carry. They scale the best in the game because they're so undeniably weak solo that they require an entire team to help them. And all these changes have done is exacerbate this problem while pushing their necessary power spikes ridiculously far back. The only enjoyable thing about marksmen was eventually getting to teamfights where your major DPS would make you feel amazing and you'd finally feel impactful. And now you dont even get that because the item build paths suck, the game is unfairly short, and you honestly spend most of the game feeling like a slightly buffed caster minion. Its fucking shit and horrendously unfun and makes an already fairly unfulfilling role even worse.

And this isn't even taking into account how fucking bullshit it was that they decided marksmen shouldn't spike so early. How fun and fair it is to be the "late game carry" class that cant even carry and currently gets its power spikes slower than other late game champions. Jax and yi both only need one to two items to be unstoppable and both are intended as "late game carries."

No, marksmen are playable but they aren't fun or enjoyable. You don't get rewarded anymore by playing them. Even if you leave your lane fed, it doesn't matter if they have an assassin or bruiser that is already fed in another lane. Because they already have their powerspikes; you dont.

CeazaruJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I didn't misunderstand you. I countered it with were you able to play all of these champions somewhere else? If the answer is yes, I really fail to understand what the hell the issue is of allowing marksmen to have one lane that they are specifically created and balanced around going to. I never understood why mages, assassins, fighters, and tanks get to have the entirety of the map and then expect to get to have bot too. Its greedy as shit considering they have far more control over their games and outcomes than marksmen do, they require far less team cooperation than marksmen do, they get strong power spikes while still scaling decently well, they all can 1v1 and win against a marksmen as long as they dont majorly screw it up. Why do they need to own bot lane as well when they already own top, mid, and jungle and even sometimes support? In what universe is it okay for people who dont even play bot lane to decide what should be viable in it? Clearly there are players who play marksmen who dont want diversity, who are happy playing just marksmen bot lane. This is supported by the fact the role overall is just played less and more people are getting autofilled into it. Bot lane players are abandoning it in droves. Not only that but, as so many people have pointed out, marksmen are still the primary champions being picked bot; you can choose to take this as a symptom of them being "viable." Or you could also take it as an equally likely option that marksmen players still prefer to play marksmen over other champions; that they aren't interested in the other classes and that they took and still take marksmen bot specifically because that is just who they want to play.

And sure, marksmen are playable but the difference between playable and enjoyable. I dont enjoy playing unrewarding champions. They are intended the outscale most things in the game but the sacrifices they make are fucking massive. If a yi or a jax gets fed and makes it to late game, guess what? They actually have the ability to solo carry. They aren't tied down to a support and they dont have to pray their team will protect them adequately. Do you understand or even comprehend how rewarding that feels or how satisfactory that is? Marksmen flatly do not have that.

The basic fact is that Marksmen. Cant. Solo. Carry. They scale the best in the game because they're so undeniably weak solo that they require an entire team to help them. And all these changes have done is exacerbate this problem while pushing their necessary power spikes ridiculously far back. The only enjoyable thing about marksmen was eventually getting to teamfights where your major DPS would make you feel amazing and you'd finally feel impactful. And now you dont even get that because the item build paths suck, the game is unfairly short, and you honestly spend most of the game feeling like a slightly buffed caster minion. Its fucking shit and horrendously unfun and makes an already fairly unfulfilling role even worse.

And this isn't even taking into account how fucking bullshit it was that they decided marksmen shouldn't spike so early. How fun and fair it is to be the "late game carry" class that cant even carry and currently gets its power spikes slower than other late game champions. Jax and yi both only need one to two items to be unstoppable and both are intended as "late game carries."

No, marksmen are playable but they aren't fun or enjoyable. You don't get rewarded anymore by playing them. Even if you leave your lane fed, it doesn't matter if they have an assassin or bruiser that is already fed in another lane. Because they already have their powerspikes; you dont.

So basically your argument is essentially the same argument that every other class has had when talking about marksman this season. Do you remember that literally when adc were able to 2 shot squisies and melt tankier champs at 2 items. What this sounds like to me is that adcs are extremely oppressive when strong and “trash” when they finally get nerfed. Sounds like a class rework is needed to me. maybe it’s a bad thing to have a class that out scales everything and has unavoidable damage because it’s primarily through ranged auto attacks or point and click abilities and no other classes do not out scale marksmen they just power spike sooner a lot of these bruisers, Assassins and mages are at their peak strength during the mid game but marksmen totally out scale them in the late game. So essentially it’s the same as every season before season 8 when you had to stall the game till the marksman was fed enough to be effective only difference now is that they have to deal the classes that power spike before them. To that I say it’s about time marksman learn how to play around the other classes just like every other role other than marksman/support has had to do for years because no other lane was class exclusive.

Yes this was copied and pasted because I saw a similar argument from another person who I replied to.

OtterlyLostJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So basically your argument is essentially the same argument that every other class has had when talking about marksman this season. Do you remember that literally when adc were able to 2 shot squisies and melt tankier champs at 2 items. What this sounds like to me is that adcs are extremely oppressive when strong and “trash” when they finally get nerfed. Sounds like a class rework is needed to me. maybe it’s a bad thing to have a class that out scales everything and has unavoidable damage because it’s primarily through ranged auto attacks or point and click abilities and no other classes do not out scale marksmen they just power spike sooner a lot of these bruisers, Assassins and mages are at their peak strength during the mid game but marksmen totally out scale them in the late game. So essentially it’s the same as every season before season 8 when you had to stall the game till the marksman was fed enough to be effective only difference now is that they have to deal the classes that power spike before them. To that I say it’s about time marksman learn how to play around the other classes just like every other role other than marksman/support has had to do for years because no other lane was class exclusive.

Yes this was copied and pasted because I saw a similar argument from another person who I replied to.

No, my argument is essentially that Marksmen are the weakest late game carries with the least possible solo carry potential in the game and in order to feel impactful, need already several factors outside of their control making the current shit powerspike feel terrible. You'd know that if you'd read and responded to my post specifically instead of just assuming everything I had to say was the exact same as someone else's.

What the boards likes to ignore and fails to realize is that right now, in these games, 20 minutes is considered late game. This is supported by other late game carries such as Jax, Yi, Irelia, and Fiora getting their power spikes at 1 to 2 items. It baffles me that the boards thinks its fair for these right clicking late game carries to be strong at 1 to 2 items while getting to 1 shot squishies and melting tanks but not for ADCs who are more team reliant, squishier, and give up far more for their power than these other carries.

ADCs are full damage, glass cannon champions; they don't have the luxury of sacrificing their damage for tankiness and anytime they find a way around this particular weakness, Riot guts it and forces them back to a full build of squishy items. Any class of champions that gives up their own safety and well being to build full damage should be doing substantial damage at the relative late game stage(which is, again, 20 minutes right now; games aren't lasting to 30-35 minutes anymore). And even then, I have never seen an ADC 2 shot a squishy with just AA's unless it was extremely late game and they were full build or if they were extremely fed and had a full item or two over said Squishy. In both cases, I don't see an issue; they have earned the right to do the damage they're doing and it makes perfect sense for them to be doing the damage they're doing.

And, as my post said, they literally give up all of their agency and all of their control over the game for their builds. An ADC can be fed but it won't matter in teamfights if their team isn't doing things to keep them alive. Even an 0/5 Assassin can 1v1 an ADC if the Assassin has at least one completed item. Or they can't do anything if their team is too far behind and can't stand up to the enemy team. They can be kiting beasts, they can orbwalk perfectly, and position perfectly and keep their CS up to an LCS standard and even not die themselves in teamfights while putting out as much DPS as possible but at the end of the day, that won't matter if their team is too far behind and dies every teamfight. Because as a class, unless the enemy majorly screws up, they can't solo fight.

And also, there's that fucking argument; just ADAPT. No. That's a bullshit argument and the board knows it. Especially since none of them can answer why Mages/Assassins/Tanks/Fighters should be allowed to go bot lane when ADCs aren't allowed to go to other lanes and be solo laners. Why should ADCs have to share the one lane that they're allowed to go into? Every other class literally owns the rest of the map and ADCs have this one goddamn corner that is theirs because Riot can't get off their lazy ass and give them lane diversity.

"Adapting" is what top laners should have had to do the few times there were ADC's going top lane; yet they didn't and they still, to this day, come onto this board and whine about the one time they got "oppressed" by a Vayne top without even mentioning that they probably still won the game by tower diving her over and over again.

Why does no one have to "adapt" for crit ADCs but crit ADCs are magically intended to adapt for everyone else? Get that nonsense out of here and, honestly, until Riot "adapts" the marksmen class for solo lanes, get your Mages/Tanks/Assassins/Fighters out of bot lane. Because no, that's the only lane that many marksmen can go to; they shouldn't have to share it with every other champion under the sun just because every other champion under the sun isn't satisfied enough with having Top, Mid, and Jungle.

"Diversity" my ass. Its "diversity" when Crit Marksmen aren't the only class that have just one lane.

CeazaruJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, my argument is essentially that Marksmen are the weakest late game carries with the least possible solo carry potential in the game and in order to feel impactful, need already several factors outside of their control making the current shit powerspike feel terrible. You'd know that if you'd read and responded to my post specifically instead of just assuming everything I had to say was the exact same as someone else's.

What the boards likes to ignore and fails to realize is that right now, in these games, 20 minutes is considered late game. This is supported by other late game carries such as Jax, Yi, Irelia, and Fiora getting their power spikes at 1 to 2 items. It baffles me that the boards thinks its fair for these right clicking late game carries to be strong at 1 to 2 items while getting to 1 shot squishies and melting tanks but not for ADCs who are more team reliant, squishier, and give up far more for their power than these other carries.

ADCs are full damage, glass cannon champions; they don't have the luxury of sacrificing their damage for tankiness and anytime they find a way around this particular weakness, Riot guts it and forces them back to a full build of squishy items. Any class of champions that gives up their own safety and well being to build full damage should be doing substantial damage at the relative late game stage(which is, again, 20 minutes right now; games aren't lasting to 30-35 minutes anymore). And even then, I have never seen an ADC 2 shot a squishy with just AA's unless it was extremely late game and they were full build or if they were extremely fed and had a full item or two over said Squishy. In both cases, I don't see an issue; they have earned the right to do the damage they're doing and it makes perfect sense for them to be doing the damage they're doing.

And, as my post said, they literally give up all of their agency and all of their control over the game for their builds. An ADC can be fed but it won't matter in teamfights if their team isn't doing things to keep them alive. Even an 0/5 Assassin can 1v1 an ADC if the Assassin has at least one completed item. Or they can't do anything if their team is too far behind and can't stand up to the enemy team. They can be kiting beasts, they can orbwalk perfectly, and position perfectly and keep their CS up to an LCS standard and even not die themselves in teamfights while putting out as much DPS as possible but at the end of the day, that won't matter if their team is too far behind and dies every teamfight. Because as a class, unless the enemy majorly screws up, they can't solo fight.

And also, there's that fucking argument; just ADAPT. No. That's a bullshit argument and the board knows it. Especially since none of them can answer why Mages/Assassins/Tanks/Fighters should be allowed to go bot lane when ADCs aren't allowed to go to other lanes and be solo laners. Why should ADCs have to share the one lane that they're allowed to go into? Every other class literally owns the rest of the map and ADCs have this one goddamn corner that is theirs because Riot can't get off their lazy ass and give them lane diversity.

"Adapting" is what top laners should have had to do the few times there were ADC's going top lane; yet they didn't and they still, to this day, come onto this board and whine about the one time they got "oppressed" by a Vayne top without even mentioning that they probably still won the game by tower diving her over and over again.

Why does no one have to "adapt" for crit ADCs but crit ADCs are magically intended to adapt for everyone else? Get that nonsense out of here and, honestly, until Riot "adapts" the marksmen class for solo lanes, get your Mages/Tanks/Assassins/Fighters out of bot lane. Because no, that's the only lane that many marksmen can go to; they shouldn't have to share it with every other champion under the sun just because every other champion under the sun isn't satisfied enough with having Top, Mid, and Jungle.

"Diversity" my ass. Its "diversity" when Crit Marksmen aren't the only class that have just one lane.

I will admit that some of the fighters, Assassins and mages are a bit over tuned but that doesn't exclude the fact that marksmen have been in a better place than them for the majority of season. Fighters were uselesss didn't have a keystone for months until conqueror came out. It's like marks men needed to build defenses because all you guys need was a Janna, Lulu, Karma etc to click on you and place a giant shield on you when an assassins engaged on them. Mages and assassins have been getting blown up by marksmen for months with no way of countering it. You complain about getting one shot by an assassin/mage/fighter combo let me tell you these classes have to take risk to even think about doing their damage, Fighters have to deal with diving into the middle of the enemy team with no real great way of escaping and if you getting cc'ed to death, Assassins are squishy burst damage dealers who have to get in and get out fast or they just die. Mages are completely useless if they can't land all their skill shits and abilities. What risk do marksmen take? oh right the risk of having to nothing but stand behind 2 or more tanks who cc anything that tries to kill you and a shield the nullifies your weaknesses and any damage done to you so you can just stand still and 2 shot anything that moves. That's some really high risk game play, yeah no. I find it funny that you just admitted that you don't like champ diversity and having to adapt meta changes or new champs. You just like same boring meta that we've had for 3+ seasons where you can just pick Caitlyn Tristana Jinx Ashe Sivir etc and do nothing but farm for 30+min then just be able to kill anything effortlessly while standing behind some tanks and an shield support while having the entire game decided by you because everyone else has no choice but to pick some that can protect the adc. I know tough it's having to deal with the fact that you aren't needed to even have a chance at winning anymore. Your going to have to get used to it because no other subclass has been mandatory to have a chance accept marksmen and if you refuse will then go ahead quit it's not our or riots fault that you can diversify your play style and can only play one type of champ while everyone else has to rotate their champs because they become viable and nonviable with every change. Riot doesn't have build their game to accommodate for entitled crit marksmen mains who thinks their champs should always be meta because they have been for 7 seasons.

OtterlyLostJun 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I will admit that some of the fighters, Assassins and mages are a bit over tuned but that doesn't exclude the fact that marksmen have been in a better place than them for the majority of season. Fighters were uselesss didn't have a keystone for months until conqueror came out. It's like marks men needed to build defenses because all you guys need was a Janna, Lulu, Karma etc to click on you and place a giant shield on you when an assassins engaged on them. Mages and assassins have been getting blown up by marksmen for months with no way of countering it. You complain about getting one shot by an assassin/mage/fighter combo let me tell you these classes have to take risk to even think about doing their damage, Fighters have to deal with diving into the middle of the enemy team with no real great way of escaping and if you getting cc'ed to death, Assassins are squishy burst damage dealers who have to get in and get out fast or they just die. Mages are completely useless if they can't land all their skill shits and abilities. What risk do marksmen take? oh right the risk of having to nothing but stand behind 2 or more tanks who cc anything that tries to kill you and a shield the nullifies your weaknesses and any damage done to you so you can just stand still and 2 shot anything that moves. That's some really high risk game play, yeah no. I find it funny that you just admitted that you don't like champ diversity and having to adapt meta changes or new champs. You just like same boring meta that we've had for 3+ seasons where you can just pick etc and do nothing but farm for 30+min then just be able to kill anything effortlessly while standing behind some tanks and an shield support while having the entire game decided by you because everyone else has no choice but to pick some that can protect the adc. I know tough it's having to deal with the fact that you aren't needed to even have a chance at winning anymore. Your going to have to get used to it because no other subclass has been mandatory to have a chance accept marksmen and if you refuse will then go ahead quit it's not our or riots fault that you can diversify your play style and can only play one type of champ while everyone else has to rotate their champs because they become viable and nonviable with every change. Riot doesn't have build their game to accommodate for entitled crit marksmen mains who thinks their champs should always be meta because they have been for 7 seasons.

You have reading comprehension problems. But before I address that, I will address your statement that fighters were "useless" for the for months, which is bullshit. They didn't have a keystone but they still saw plenty of play. I saw Jax, Yi, Yasuo, Fiora, GP, and J4 very regularly; the fact that they just moved from top lane to the jungle is irrelevant in the face of they were played and still viable. There was also Kled, Gnar, Kayn, Olaf, Rengar, Warwick, Wukong, Lee Sin, Camille; they were all viable and played regularly and they are all listed under the "fighter" classification. So clearly, they weren't as useless as you seem to believe. I agree that they did go months without a good keystone but now they have one of the best keystones in the game and they're the only class that can affectively make use of it. :/ And as a result of this keystone, they have completely neutered tanks and made the class nonexistent in either top lane or jungle.

As for mages and assassins getting blown up for months, that's also BS as I pointed out in my previous post that if an ADC was "blowing" anyone up, it was because they were ridiculously fed and had a full item or two over the individual getting blown up or they were late game and full build; in either case, they have earned the right to be blowing up champions. You can't expect a class that literally can only build full damage to not randomly do damage to a group of champions just because they're squishy. Why shouldn't they be doing lots of damage if their entire build is full damage. Assassins can buy into health, have extreme mobility, and have items that give them resistances; they should, by all rights, lose some damage for getting to be marginally tankier. Mages get a lot of health and have access to some of the best defensive items in the game(Zhonya's and Banshees?); they should also lose some damage for getting over all more utility than either Assassins or Marksmen get and also having access to more CDR and defensive options.

And Assassins and Fighters taking risks to get their target is literally their own draw back and they usually either get tankier or have some kind of durability spell in their kit(fighters) or have extreme mobility and burst damage(assassins) that greatly reduces these "risks." Just to name a few examples: Irelia has a damage reduction in her kit and extreme mobility. Yi has his Alpha Strike that lets him become invulnerable and an ult that prevents him from being slowed in either MS or AS. WW has a damage reduction ability that transitions into a fear so he not only takes less damage when he dives but he also CC's people after that period of damage reduction is gone. Kled has a second health bar that after a certain amount of time fighting will reappear and give him a huge heal. Gnar can stack up his rage and mega gnar out for a huge boon of health and resists. Fiora has extreme mobility, in built heals, an ultimate that AoE heals, and a reposte that blocks CC and damage coming in. GP doesn't even have to dive; he can stack up barrels and do massive amounts of damage from a range that I feel is longer than most ADC's and he has a free cleanse and heal with his orange.

Need I go on? The risks that fighters take when they dive is honestly pretty goddamn minimal if they're not diving stupidly and they haven't fed their ass off the entirety of the game. Or if they're Irelia. Because Irelia can feed and then turn around and pop off.

As far as what risks do marksmen have to take, just being in the fight at all is a risk. Have you ever looked at the range of most champions dashes? Most champions have a dash range longer than ADC's AA range. If they don't position perfectly in a fight, they will literally get jumped on and blown up because they don't get all these nice resistances or health items that other classes get. Tristana at level 18 has the longest AA range in the game at 661. That's only at level 18 and this is in a meta and game where going past 20 minutes is rare; she usually finishes games at level 13 to 15, which means her range maxes out most games at 645.

That is tiny compared to some of the dash ranges that certain bruisers or assassins have access to. Diana isn't a great example as she is in a terrible spot but even with her awful position in the meta, her ultimate has a range of 825. At Rank 1. Her Q has a range of 900. She literally can land a random Q on a Tristana at the back of her team, Dash, and then dash again when Tristana tries to jump away. Or even interrupt said jump midair with her own E and the dash a second time if Tristana tries to flash or ult her away. And this is with Tristana at the back of her team behind those two currently nonexistent tanks(because really? no one is playing tanks right now). And if this Diana isn't grossly behind, she's likely going to kill the Tristana before the tanks or the support will be able to do anything.

And this isn't just Diana. ALL of the biggest and strongest fighters currently have extreme mobility and reach with their dashes. Irelia's Q is 625, Jax's 700, Yi's is 600, Zed's 650...

So yes, I don't know what risk Marksmen would ever have with so many champions with dashes that literally out range their AA's as champions who generally have no escapes and are extremely squishy without rushable defensive items.

Now finally to your extreme lack of reading comprehension. I never said I didn't like diversity or that I hated it. I did, however, say I hated fake diversity. And that's what this current meta is. Its fake diversity. Its not any champion going to any position they want. Its Marksmen going bot lane while bruisers/mages/assassins/tanks get to go any position they want. I admitted to feeling like Riot was fucking lazy as shit with 8.11 and instead of making it one big patch where they rebalanced lots of champions to open up lane and positional diversity for ALL champions, marksmen included, they just murdered the marksmen class all together and still expected them to go bot lane.

Expecting me to adapt and be okay with this is like expect me to be okay with the military coming in, breaking my legs, and then giving my house to some random strangers with no promise appropriate health care or even to find me a new house. No one would be okay with that.

CeazaruJun 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You have reading comprehension problems. But before I address that, I will address your statement that fighters were "useless" for the for months, which is bullshit. They didn't have a keystone but they still saw plenty of play. I saw Jax, Yi, Yasuo, Fiora, GP, and J4 very regularly; the fact that they just moved from top lane to the jungle is irrelevant in the face of they were played and still viable. There was also Kled, Gnar, Kayn, Olaf, Rengar, Warwick, Wukong, Lee Sin, Camille; they were all viable and played regularly and they are all listed under the "fighter" classification. So clearly, they weren't as useless as you seem to believe. I agree that they did go months without a good keystone but now they have one of the best keystones in the game and they're the only class that can affectively make use of it. :/ And as a result of this keystone, they have completely neutered tanks and made the class nonexistent in either top lane or jungle.

As for mages and assassins getting blown up for months, that's also BS as I pointed out in my previous post that if an ADC was "blowing" anyone up, it was because they were ridiculously fed and had a full item or two over the individual getting blown up or they were late game and full build; in either case, they have earned the right to be blowing up champions. You can't expect a class that literally can only build full damage to not randomly do damage to a group of champions just because they're squishy. Why shouldn't they be doing lots of damage if their entire build is full damage. Assassins can buy into health, have extreme mobility, and have items that give them resistances; they should, by all rights, lose some damage for getting to be marginally tankier. Mages get a lot of health and have access to some of the best defensive items in the game(Zhonya's and Banshees?); they should also lose some damage for getting over all more utility than either Assassins or Marksmen get and also having access to more CDR and defensive options.

And Assassins and Fighters taking risks to get their target is literally their own draw back and they usually either get tankier or have some kind of durability spell in their kit(fighters) or have extreme mobility and burst damage(assassins) that greatly reduces these "risks." Just to name a few examples: Irelia has a damage reduction in her kit and extreme mobility. Yi has his Alpha Strike that lets him become invulnerable and an ult that prevents him from being slowed in either MS or AS. WW has a damage reduction ability that transitions into a fear so he not only takes less damage when he dives but he also CC's people after that period of damage reduction is gone. Kled has a second health bar that after a certain amount of time fighting will reappear and give him a huge heal. Gnar can stack up his rage and mega gnar out for a huge boon of health and resists. Fiora has extreme mobility, in built heals, an ultimate that AoE heals, and a reposte that blocks CC and damage coming in. GP doesn't even have to dive; he can stack up barrels and do massive amounts of damage from a range that I feel is longer than most ADC's and he has a free cleanse and heal with his orange.

Need I go on? The risks that fighters take when they dive is honestly pretty goddamn minimal if they're not diving stupidly and they haven't fed their ass off the entirety of the game. Or if they're Irelia. Because Irelia can feed and then turn around and pop off.

As far as what risks do marksmen have to take, just being in the fight at all is a risk. Have you ever looked at the range of most champions dashes? Most champions have a dash range longer than ADC's AA range. If they don't position perfectly in a fight, they will literally get jumped on and blown up because they don't get all these nice resistances or health items that other classes get. Tristana at level 18 has the longest AA range in the game at 661. That's only at level 18 and this is in a meta and game where going past 20 minutes is rare; she usually finishes games at level 13 to 15, which means her range maxes out most games at 645.

That is tiny compared to some of the dash ranges that certain bruisers or assassins have access to. Diana isn't a great example as she is in a terrible spot but even with her awful position in the meta, her ultimate has a range of 825. At Rank 1. Her Q has a range of 900. She literally can land a random Q on a Tristana at the back of her team, Dash, and then dash again when Tristana tries to jump away. Or even interrupt said jump midair with her own E and the dash a second time if Tristana tries to flash or ult her away. And this is with Tristana at the back of her team behind those two currently nonexistent tanks(because really? no one is playing tanks right now). And if this Diana isn't grossly behind, she's likely going to kill the Tristana before the tanks or the support will be able to do anything.

And this isn't just Diana. ALL of the biggest and strongest fighters currently have extreme mobility and reach with their dashes. Irelia's Q is 625, Jax's 700, Yi's is 600, Zed's 650...

So yes, I don't know what risk Marksmen would ever have with so many champions with dashes that literally out range their AA's as champions who generally have no escapes and are extremely squishy without rushable defensive items.

Now finally to your extreme lack of reading comprehension. I never said I didn't like diversity or that I hated it. I did, however, say I hated fake diversity. And that's what this current meta is. Its fake diversity. Its not any champion going to any position they want. Its Marksmen going bot lane while bruisers/mages/assassins/tanks get to go any position they want. I admitted to feeling like Riot was fucking lazy as shit with 8.11 and instead of making it one big patch where they rebalanced lots of champions to open up lane and positional diversity for ALL champions, marksmen included, they just murdered the marksmen class all together and still expected them to go bot lane.

Expecting me to adapt and be okay with this is like expect me to be okay with the military coming in, breaking my legs, and then giving my house to some random strangers with no promise appropriate health care or even to find me a new house. No one would be okay with that.

whatever man we'll agree to disagree. All I know is the only people who seem to hate this new meta is marksmen mains who never took the time to diversify their play style and did nothing accept one trick the same 5 champs that do basically the same thing and I get it. You never took the time to learn anything else because in these past 8 years your champs were the most powerful champs and in the game and if not thet were still a very good/reliable pick. Now that you deal what every other player has had to deal for years. which is learning how to play something new top laners have never had the luxury of playing whatever they wanted all the time even though top lane has the highest champion diversity in game. Yes top lane is primarily fighters and tanks but even some assassins,mages and marksmen( Quinn Teemo ) can go up there. There we're times when tanks just destroyed fighters. Hell divers type fighters were weak at times and what are going to say to Juggernaut mains their champs accept maybe Darius who hasn't been that until recently with the addition of conqueror have been trash since they were nerfed after the jugg rework/updates back in season 5 so they had to learn how to play other champs who were better. Jungle is a never ending rotation tanks, fighters, assassins and even some marksmen ( Graves and Twitch ). Mid lane is constantly rotating between Assassins and Mages hell maybe one marksmen in Ezreal can go mid. Why does bot lane have to the only lane where only one subclass can go while every other lane has champions from every class that can go there and be effective. Yes riot can probably give marksmen a small buff where they can healthy enough to spike quicker but there is no justification for the subclass of marksmen who have historically been the late game carry to be able to out due all the other subclasses who are supposed to be strong or spike in the early early or mid game. marksmen should only spike during the mid to late game like they always have. The only bad in that is that riot seems to keep making games shorter and shorter and i will agree that it doesn't give marksmen enough time to hit their spike and that riot should work extending the game times but to do that they'll have to buff turrent durability to where they were back in season 5-6 which i think they should. If riot can extend game times and maybe help marksmen out a bit without killing the current bot lane diversity then we could have a perfect meta where almost every class of champ can be effective and an environment that will allow players more creativity with team build by allowing non marksmen comps and marksmen comps compete on almost an equal play field.

OmegaNITROJun 19, 20182 votes

None of what you said has anything to do with the reason non-marksmen carries did not go Bot. At this point you're just throwing random arguments out to justify how wrong you are about this class you don't seem to play.

The potential of some marksmen to outscale some other champions is irrelevant if the game has already been decided before they can reach that scaling point. Riot wished to slow late game marksmen's power spikes down. They did that, overdid it, and at the same time sped the game up overall. Also, Irelia Jax Vladimir Yasuo Veigar and others outscale most marksmen and still do, and still spike sooner than crit marksmen.

No one said you couldn't still win with them. People win games with non-meta and trash tier picks all the time. It simply is no longer likely that you will reach your late game powerspike on late game marksmen, and as such there is only disadvantages in picking them.

To a subclass that is already the most team reliant in the game, with the least solo agency, even when "overpowered", that effectively removes all logical reason to play that class. Scaling does not matter when you don't get the opportunity to scale.

IcyPepperJun 19, 20181 votes

And riot is literally making no moves this season to rebalance marksmen so that they could go to solo lanes and play somewhere else.

While I enjoy having a different meta as a support main (it makes the experience quite interesting with so many variables), it's not fair if Riot doesn't smooth things out and rebalance marksman by the next patch for solo laning.

I'm not sure if this will require numbers tuning, different items, etc etc but it'd be nice if the class wasn't restricted to the lane as well as vice versa.

OtterlyLostJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

While I enjoy having a different meta as a support main (it makes the experience quite interesting with so many variables), it's not fair if Riot doesn't smooth things out and rebalance marksman by the next patch for solo laning.

I'm not sure if this will require numbers tuning, different items, etc etc but it'd be nice if the class wasn't restricted to the lane as well as vice versa.

They've already stated that they wont be making anymore huge, game changing patches for the remainder of the season. So marksmen are just fucked, hence my extreme resentment toward riot for this entire, lazy debacle.

IcyPepperJun 19, 20182 votes

Well, shit.

We're fucked.

OtterlyLostJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, shit.

We're fucked.

Yeap. The entirety of 8.11 was half assed and lazy on the part of riot. Sure they're buffing some of them now but honestly the changes aren't worthwhile or good. They're actively making tristana's early game even worse by nerfing her E's base power and changing the scaling on it. This does literally nothing to help her as a champion. And they didn't even address the problem of two zeal items being a waste of 1200 gold with IE because for some reason they didn't change all zeal items crit chance to an even 25% and instead left them at 30. :/ they flatly dont care about ADCs.

IcyPepperJun 19, 20182 votes

Now I kinda feel bad for enjoying the chaos of the new "meta."

OtterlyLostJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Now I kinda feel bad for enjoying the chaos of the new "meta."

Bah I dont fault anyone for enjoying it; if you actually like playing all of the other champions bot, kudos. I just hate how the boards expects everyone to like playing all of the new champions when there are people who just like to play marksmen and want to play have them still be viable options. Like I really personally dont mind the new match ups. What I mind is that I can only play bot lane with the champs I enjoy and the new match ups just inherently shit on the champs I enjoy making them unenjoyable to play. It's nothing new or enjoyable for me either; I dont get to take tristana mid now instead. Or play Ashe top. I just... sorta get to sit bot and get dumped on by bruisers and mages who spike earlier and have base stats intended for solo laners. Not fun.

Brand BowllamaJun 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

As an ADC main, I'm not playing it. I'm barely playing at all. That's what happens when you alienate an entire portion of players.

Basically this. mid was my secondary role and it's pretty much now my primary. This whole idea of "adapt" is literally just "play a completely different set of champions you may not have otherwise touched because it's meta." Granted, I beat a Camille/J4 botlane as Lucian this patch, but someone telling me pre game to play Renekton (who I've really only played in ARAM) is not adapting; it's a full on change. And when I go 0/20 on someone I don't play in your ranked promos, I don't want to see your flame. So, I just play mid more because I have a healthy pool of mages/assassins, and in some cases, even take my marksmen mid.

HyquiemJun 19, 20181 votes

It’s not like that’s happened before, but then again the adcs taking advantage so hard hurt as hell

MoldyCheese1Jun 17, 20189 votes

"bot" is dead because the general play base was just adc players, adcs are dead but people who may do bruisers/ apcs bot are still going bot. people haven't adjusted yet, aside from that mid is like, the most popular role?

give it time it will fix itself out, but adc players will basically turn into hashinshin for a bit so you know.

AimléssJun 17, 20188 votes

Tbh, I think people are going Bruiser/APC bot because most of their ADC picks are trash and they que'd mid/top and got bot anyway so said "Fuck it, new meta."

I know this because that is literally me right now lol.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 17, 20182 votes

I can 100% assure you that crit adcs and adcs in general are fine in your low gold games.

AimléssJun 17, 20188 votes

There is literally not a single crit ADC in gold with a winrate over 50%... Save your assurance for someone who doesn't do research please.

Athenes LuluJun 17, 20188 votes

I came here expecting people telling that it is "perfectly okay" because ADCs are actually bad now. At least ones that rely on crit and such.

Oh wait... they're too happy playing the game right now. Boards want ADCs out of "being mandatory" and they got what they wanted.

:^)

AFilthyCaitMainJun 17, 20186 votes

Nope. my champs are garbage rn so theres no point.

BEST MEAT BALLSJun 17, 20186 votes

the current meta does not require an adc to win , so going bot lane with maybe any champion can make u win ... and some people are afraid to get reported in case they feed as an adc because it is a real weak role right now ...

Killer of Night9Jun 17, 20184 votes

I think support is dead too. Support now think that adc are trolling (aka apc/bruiser as adc) and they wanna take something weird because they dislike their carry even is fairly strong. There is only a few list of adc that work because they can still bully the enemy such as lucian or draven or adc that doesn't realy on late game build ezreal or kai'sa. Other adc feel weak and can be oneshotted even into late game.

AltiverseJun 17, 20184 votes

Personally, I thoroughly enjoy the current meta in bot. Or rather, the non-meta, where you can actually pick some weird stuff and have a chance at winning rather than literally seeing KogMaw Lulu, Kaisa Janna or Xayah Rakan every single game ever.

Believe it or not, I was actually having fun today playing bot against Lux+Zoe, or playing Swain "adc" against Aurelion support. Finally a breath of fresh air.

Imo it's one of the best changes the balance team has done in the past two years. And while I agree crit ADCs shouldn't be completely alienated (meanwhile Essence Reaver abusing adcs like Lucian are still the strongest picks by far), I certainly don't want to see them dominate the meta again, or preferably not exclusively ADCs.

AimléssJun 17, 20188 votes

They didn't make everything viable bot though, they just gutted it, so the main champs there are so bad that no matter what you play there you got a chance of it being better than a crit ADC.

And I guess only the boards community must be on the role having fun, cause like I said, no one else is playing it. I doubt it's very fun for the majority of the playerbase.

y0r1ckJun 17, 20183 votes

As a support player in gold/plat I'm enjoying the diversity. I understand this sucks a lot for enchanter and adc mains, but you guys should realize you held a monopoly on bot lane for a long time. The majority of lol players are not enchanter mains or crit adc mains, so it's safe to say that the majority of the player base is unperturbed by the changes.

OmegaNITROJun 17, 20184 votes

I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why ADC and Support champions that are specialized to perform in the duo lane should not be dominant in the duo lane when there is literally no other role they excel in.

CyrosiJun 17, 20184 votes

I think ADCs not being viable in bot is an issue because there's no where else most of them can go, as opposed to the other roles being able to go into more lanes. I mean, Swain is literally viable in every lane now, and he's not the only one. With the rare exception of a few marksmen like Vayne, most ADCs can only play in the bottom lane, or rarely, midlane against certain opponents.

saltranJun 17, 20183 votes

As an adc main, not quiting the game but I'm playing half ARAM half normal games and 0 rankeds lately. Oh and the best is that Caitlyn is not getting a single buff despise being the weakest adc along with Tristana so she doesn't ruin the "diversity" on botlane.

N63Jun 17, 20182 votes

S1, people played whatever they wanted and had fun S8, people played whatever they want, WTF IS GOING ON, THE EARTH IS SHATTERING AND EVERYTHING IS DYING! THE GAME IS DYING OH NO I NEED TO QUIT LEAGUE BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE SAME ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!