Boards›Gameplay

Riot, the change you're making to Shaco's E is NOT buffing AD Assassin Shaco

Trash MammaI··10 votes·2,002 views

In fact not only are you getting rid of AP shaco by doing this you're hurting him even more.

A huge thing about Shaco that not many people realized is that his abilities dealt MAGIC damage. A lot of times people would rush armor vs him and wonder why he did so much damage when they had 0 magic resistance, by turning his E (shiv) into physical damage (yes the buffed up execute damage is nice) you're hindering him even more making it a lot easier to build against him.

You changed the jungle spawn times making his early game cheese tactics no more You let lee sin/ivern/graves etc. run rampant in the jungle making it difficult to even play Shaco You basically took away what he was good for (his early game pressure) Then nerfed it even harder AP shaco became the go to and got nerfed even more Assassin shaco became obsolete so we went with bruiser and that got nerfed Now you're nerfing both ap and ad shaco again. You made countering assassin stupidly easy by buffing Death's Dance and Veil and allowing ADC's to get GA far easier.

Shaco is on his last leg leave him alone.

Two-Shiv Poison (E) Base Damage changed from 5/35/65/95/125 to 50/75/100/125/150 AD Ratio changed from [75% total AD] to [60/75/90/105/120% bonus AD] Damage type changed from magic to physical [new] Now deal up to 50% additional damage based on target's missing health [removed] No longer deals 3 - 8% missing health damage based on character level

Why does Shaco, who was perfectly fine (arguably one of the weakest champs pre and post rework), keep getting hit with nerfs for doing EXACTLY what he was intended to do? Kill squishies who didn't position correctly. Yet Lee Sin is allowed to run around and do everything better than everyone. Riven is allowed to have more CC and a better shield than half the tanks in the game while still out damaging some assassins.

You even said in a post you don't like the damage Shaco does when coming out of stealth. Yet Wukong/Kha'zix/Rengar are all doing it far better and still allowed to do it.

What do you have against Shaco?

24 Comments

Ahristocats7 votes

as a former shaco main this is an insane buff to shaco that will make his win rate with lethality build going to at least 54%

120% bonus ad 150 base damage 50% additional damage with missing hp is now physical damage

build duskblade+youmu+hydra and you will see that an adc will die with Q+hydra+E

not only this but lethality will be buffed

edit: here is some math 260 bonus ad with warrior+duskblade+youmu+ravenous hydra 150+1.2*260=462 50% bonus damage= 693 damage

Irelia Bot2 votes

I trust your judgement on the likely outcome.

But others think this is killing him for some reason.

Ahristocats1 votes

because they do not play lethality shaco, the popular build atm is tank shaco with triforce+ titanic hydra+cinderhulk

i played it with duskblade passive it's insane and duskblade didn't get nerfed unlike the other lethality items meddler mentioned that lethality will be looked at

shaco with lethality build is going to delete a squishy even faster now with lethality i already killed someone with Q+ravenous hydra+E, now imagine with this new E

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

I assume Ravenous is for clear but if you wanted a bit of survival perhaps Death's Dance could work; now the Shiv will drain into it.

I had highly assumed Shaco's original intent to be taken away from AD. It seemed that way for a while.

L Psy Kongroo3 votes

As much as this will hurt AP Shaco, I can't help but feel that it's balanced out by the fact that AD assassin Shaco will finally be viable again. Shaco was always intended to be an assassin, and being forced into some stupid bruiser/off tank build was extremely disheartening as a Shaco main. Even with these changes, I feel like AP Shaco will still survive somehow. He's more about outplaying people with good box placements rather than bursting people with his E anyway (and tbh the Gunblade+E+Lich Bane auto combo AP Shaco used to be known for had very little counterplay anyway).

FantasticCastle3 votes

Dude that is because Shaco is not an assassin. Rather, he is a moving trinket. If you have sweeping lens, you become a moving control ward. He is born with one and one purpose only: provide the fucking vision but don't you dare do any fucking damage. So this is what I do. I go q max and mobility boots so I can run very fast and provide vision. I also have the green fucking smite, sight stone, 10 control wards so I can put down as many fucking ward, along with my beloved boxes, as possible. I take on average 10 scuttles per game I also have my clone brother face check bushes for my teammates.

Kappa

FantasticCastle3 votes

oh here's an suggested Shaco nerf: make Shaco's passive heal up the enemy. Make shaco's q no longer invisible if enemies type in all chat "reveal yourself" Make shaco's e a pure animation that does no damage (this one, I believe, is very close to reality) Make Shaco's clone chase down and attack Shaco himself while shouting out "I found him guys! He is over there!!". Also, Shaco's clone should have this big fucking sign above it that says "I am the clone"

That will totally balance Shaco. Pls fucking nerf Shaco more Rito

Kappa.

zarxus12342 votes

They already completely destroyed this champion..... why can't these fuckers just leave him alone at this point.

SweedishGunner2 votes

'Shaco is on his last leg leave him alone.'

https://image.prntscr.com/image/ksrMJvifTzaqYLYLJHrt7g.png

Kappa.

AbsoluteSadman1 votes

The ASol jungle tho

Trash MammaI1 votes

In my experience in league i've learned that statics from websites like lolking/arena etc. are completely stupid to even consider checking.

5050BS1 votes

Thats the point....

Filthy Rank1 votes

why is it so hard for riot to give shaco E some decent base damage, 150 physical damage to level 18 is a pure joke even with (in the best case) 50% more base damage. (his pre rework base damage which was already low was 210-252 (behind))

Jorencice1 votes

Cuz he's an assassin. Honestly assassins should all have bases of like 10. But crazy high RATIOS.

It's the best way to stop shit like tank shaco.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

with crazy high ratios, it also means they don't really need much damage to scale up their damage to meet the damage quota allowing the remaining slots to be filled with defense anyway. And if the ratios are not "crazy" enough, it would be an outright nerf rather than a shift in power budget.

Filthy Rank2 votes

he is an assasin ? AD shaco maybe, but AP shaco isn't (and now even less of an assasin)..

Jorencice1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Filthy Rank,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dd2AAx8I,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-05T20:18:38.129+0000)

he is an assasin ? AD shaco maybe, but AP shaco isn't (and now even less of an assasin)..

Wut...

Why did this appear as a unread reply to me???

Edit: didn't notice page 1 lol.

five oh tree 1 votes

As Janna X Rubick said, this was a buff to lethality shaco. It'll feel a lot better to build duskblade or something similar on him now, and the burst will actually be stronger if they're squishy targets.

Xion The XIV1 votes

Umm I can kinda see why people would rush Armor vs him. Every time I have gone against Shaco he has never built AP ever. Even when a Shaco was on a Full AD team he built Ad/AS build.

NoobLearninGame1 votes

Pinkward seems to think this change is a toxic buff because as Shaco Top it will force his enemies in lane to build both armor and mr due to the boxes being AP, and the higher base damage shiv poking with AD instead of AP.

Trash MammaI1 votes

It's basically being changed to an execute now. The poke damage isn't high unless they're low. It might be annoying early game but that's where Shaco's mana issues hurt the most (even with item 3802 due to needing to keep boxes up for both the enemy laner and jungler)

NoobLearninGame1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5UxMx__2_0

WarHero541 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5UxMx__2_0

As a main AP shaco top player it is a really bad nerf. Yes you keep ap ratios in E, however there is one important aspect that shaco cannot utilize now that it is physical damage and not magic damage. Any item that procs with magic damage will not work in an AP shaco's overall kit now which is a HUGE nerf. I can no longer rely on Morellonomicon as it would really help me mid game when certain champions have good healing sustainability. Also Shaco's boxes do not proc anything in general so you can't rely on that. Originally you only had 2 ways of relying on magic damage to proc with other things E and shaco's clone explosion. This really destroys AP shaco item builds and the overall damage is crippled because of this change.

NoobLearninGame1 votes

{quoted}

As a main AP shaco top player it is a really bad nerf. Yes you keep ap ratios in E, however there is one important aspect that shaco cannot utilize now that it is physical damage and not magic damage. Any item that procs with magic damage will not work in an AP shaco's overall kit now which is a HUGE nerf. I can no longer rely on Morellonomicon as it would really help me mid game when certain champions have good healing sustainability. Also Shaco's boxes do not proc anything in general so you can't rely on that. Originally you only had 2 ways of relying on magic damage to proc with other things E and shaco's clone explosion. This really destroys AP shaco item builds and the overall damage is crippled because of this change.

I don't play AP Shaco, but Pinkward is considered in general the AP Shaco God. That said, it sucks when people enjoy a certain playstyle and it's made unviable.

And I mean specifically in your case, preferring to use certain items you no longer can.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Trash MammaI

Riot's a bunch of Riven mains
Gameplay320 comments
355
votes
I called Gamestop and asked if they had any RP cards
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous67 comments
252
votes
I had no idea who Dunkey was..like legit never heard of this guy before this board hype
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous158 comments
244
votes
To low elo people. Stop copying what you see. That is why you keep losing.
Gameplay216 comments
151
votes
When are we getting a SOLO que?
Gameplay101 comments
149
votes
Riot you really missed a small but golden idea for Taliyah's W
Gameplay81 comments
143
votes