Why are people no longer permabanning Zoe

D357R0Y3R·Dec 15, 2018·13 votes·5,112 views

https://i.gyazo.com/64052bb25fbdc5a20f628a503abaea40.png

I thought that she was anti-fun at all cost and the boards would always permaban her even if she had 30% win rate

that's what people told me though

68 Comments

EedatDec 15, 201848 votes

Because they then released the Akali rework

D357R0Y3RDec 15, 20187 votes

I see I forgot that we only had 1 ban per game

RexxieeDec 15, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Because they then released the Akali rework

And irelia, also pyke.

FancyKiwiDec 16, 20183 votes

And Neeko

AFilthyCaitMainDec 15, 201819 votes

Akali Irelia Lucian Neeko Pyke Leblanc Aatrox This is pretty much it

DarkTree1Dec 15, 20189 votes

{quoted}

This is pretty much it

^ essentially. even if zoe's toxic asf to play against, it's not AS bad as this shit, you're just choosing the lesser evil

charge attackDec 16, 20186 votes

No. It’s because people ban mostly on popularity of a champion (plus how good/frustrating they are). Banning Lucian will get you much more value than banning Zoe because it’s MUCH MUCH more likely that you face Lucian, even if you dislike Zoe more.

Hell, the champs I hate the most like Zilean I will never ban because I will never see them. Instead I will ban something like Yasuo just cause he’s frustrating AND popular.

Tomoe GozenDec 16, 20184 votes

Oh my god, you are literally going to find anything to complain about...

AFilthyCaitMainDec 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbU1ExKu,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2018-12-16T00:46:57.795+0000)

Oh my god, you idiots are literally going to find anything to complain about...

Im not personally complaining. but she IS the most banned champion at this moment is what im stating. so those people arent banning zoe

H1de on blueDec 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbU1ExKu,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2018-12-16T00:46:57.795+0000)

Oh my god, you idiots are literally going to find anything to complain about...

She doesn't have a 77% ban rate in KR master tier because she is "unfun"

Champ broken.

Linna ExcelDec 15, 201818 votes

Yasuo still exists and irelia and akali got reworked.

H1de on blueDec 15, 201813 votes

Because people don't pick her. Better to use your perma on Akali, Neeko or Irelia who will get picked if left open

If she hit 20% or so pick rate again that ban rate would quickly jump back up to 50%+

BlackEyesBlueDec 15, 20189 votes

Mostly because a large chunk of the "DELETE ZOE!!!" crowd stopped crying there's no way to play against her and, well, learned to play against her.

Combined with some reasonable nerfs. Also Akali and Neeko now exist.

MankeyMadnessDec 15, 20181 votes

This. Also after Zoe got destroyed by nerfs, and conqueror came out, my permanent shifted to Jax. I dont know why he has lower than 54% banrate. He's everything wrong with Yasuo but way harder to shut down and can dash over walls or even into his own minions.

3TWarriorDec 16, 20181 votes

not hyper mobile, not incredibly defensive even though he can buff his defenses, his E only protects against auto attacks and their effects instead of greater than half of all ranged things in the game, he is able to be kited, he is a lot more item reliant than yasuo, his kit does not automatically protect him just by existing

I think i'm leaving out a few things, but Riot has gone overboard with what is "acceptable" now and just seems to say, "fight toxic with toxic" as he was a perfectly healthy champion, then suddenly runes came around and he's top tier? makes no sense

3TWarriorDec 16, 20181 votes

or riot decided, "let's counter toxic with toxic" and started making everything unhealthy. Look at the vayne buffs...she'll literally become an unkillable assassin that can murder your entire team if you're not under a tower...

KFCeytronDec 15, 20189 votes

I'd guess that the nerfs reduced her pick rate, so it's no longer as hazardous as it was to leave her open.

420 gramsDec 15, 20188 votes

They nerfed her a lot

saltranDec 15, 20185 votes

49.1% winrate and 7.5% pickrate ?

I thought she was way worse.

D357R0Y3RDec 15, 20181 votes

win rate or ban rate wise?

saltranDec 15, 20181 votes

Winrate.

PhantomSpirit101Dec 15, 20185 votes

She got buffed directly and indirectly with a Q + E buff and Dark Harvest so her win rate rose

DamSonWhUFndThisDec 15, 20184 votes

there are stronger champs than zoe that are more worth banning Akali Irelia Yasuo Zed Jhin Lucian Neeko Kaisa

Tomoe GozenDec 16, 20182 votes

And then Zoe fucks you up, you come back here to complain how Riot didn't behead her because you couldn't find a way to deal with her in one of your games... That's how it usually works.

Because people would like to deal damage to others but not RECEIVE DAMAGE in return. And anything that even has a remote chance of seriously harming them or outright killing them in a perfectly executed combo is deemed "broken" and "unfun" to play against. And yet, if the kit doesn't have damage built in, they refuse to play it and call it "weak".

The community might want to evaluate their own choices on that matter because what they want is actually contradictory in nature.

WoodakoodashoodaDec 15, 20184 votes

https://i.ibb.co/qm073Qk/baneeko.png

Packun FlowerDec 15, 20184 votes

Because I'm cute and people want me around. ❤

Rathar DashingDec 16, 20181 votes

I like taking a nap every now and then on the rift. ❤

ŚhunpoDec 16, 20181 votes

I'll sell you to Satan for 5c.

D4M2X0Dec 15, 20183 votes

cause she doesnt kill you in 3 seconds with 2 longswords (ban all the champs that abuse longswords)

and because Yasuo Akali will forever be a wasted ban slot due to design.

and then we'd ban Leblanc

Tomoe GozenDec 16, 20182 votes

Go AP Ezreal mid against her and shit on her time and time again. W into homing E + DH is the ultimate LeBlanc killer. How do people not know this?

Oh yea, because instead of FINDING COUNTERPLAY, they permaban and call it "broken". This is just beyond sad, that the community goes with the path of least resistance time and time again and pretend like they are perfectly skilled to take anyone down but not the "BROKEN" champs.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 15, 20183 votes

Because the boards found some new "OH EM GEEE OPIEEEE!!!!!!11" thing to scream and whine about.

3TWarriorDec 16, 20181 votes

or riot made such? they seem to be going for "fight toxic with toxic" now instead of even thinking about counterplay

there are already montages of vayne going ham and killing entire teams on the PBE and their reason that it's okay is "no one will not build her critical" wait, that's not even their word on it because they won't post on the forums so the moderators have made their best attempt...

TheSymbolÔfPeaceDec 15, 20183 votes

You haven't been around here since then, have you Akali Irelia Leblanc Pyke

hhaavviikkDec 16, 20183 votes

because I already gotta keep yasuo permbanned lest his windwall tilts me off the face of the fuckin earth

Fear the HarvestDec 16, 20183 votes

Pretty sure that if we actually had 10 bans available that'd be the case. Unfortunately we're currently stuck with 2 or sometimes even more people banning the same tumor every single match.

Baby GhoulDec 16, 20183 votes

Broken kits: Akali Irelia Pyke

Major problems of 8.24: Lucian Cassiopeia Jax Zed Aatrox Leblanc

Then there's the OG champions nobody ever wants to play against: Yasuo

Ontop of that Neeko just came out, and anytime a new champion releases they get banned.

There's just simply too much to ban right now, but of course, there's always that person that picks the none option.

NetorareDec 15, 20182 votes

She is really easy to deal with if they are not trolling... But yea some people dont want to dodge linear skill shots for some reason and they forget that her Q scales with distance...

InfernapeDec 16, 20182 votes

I personally think people aren't banning her because shit like Akali is still going around

FemalesAreLesserDec 16, 20182 votes

Camille

ŚhunpoDec 16, 20182 votes

Akali Aatrox Pyke Graves Neeko Yasuo Irelia Zed Lucian Camille Darius Viktor Urgot Vladimir Leblanc Kaisa Rakan

wHy nO zOE bAn????? This would be why, there are far too many other champs you don't want to let through either because they're broken, unfun to play against in general, they dumpster matchups to the point where it's nye-unwinnable (e.g. Darius vs most melee tanks) or they are just irritating or all the above. Or in the case of Neeko you don't want a teammate to go 0/20 because they're first timing and claim that they're a "Neeko prodigy", standard practice of banning new champs so that your teammates can't hard feed on them and actually have to take the time to learn them if they want to play them.

Zoe is the least of our worries when we have a 53% win rate Lucian allowed through pick/ban phase running around 2-3 hitting kids while perma-kiting and being semi-tanky due to Black Cleaver, or Akali who just invalidates any means of interactivity in lane or Pyke who just wins the moment he gets ahead due to his general slipperiness and above average damage and consistency.

ChuShoeDec 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

wHy nO zOE bAn????? This would be why, there are far too many other champs you don't want to let through either because they're broken, unfun to play against in general, they dumpster matchups to the point where it's nye-unwinnable (e.g. Darius vs most melee tanks) or they are just irritating or all the above. Or in the case of Neeko you don't want a teammate to go 0/20 because they're first timing and claim that they're a "Neeko prodigy", standard practice of banning new champs so that your teammates can't hard feed on them and actually have to take the time to learn them if they want to play them.

Zoe is the least of our worries when we have a 53% win rate Lucian allowed through pick/ban phase running around 2-3 hitting kids while perma-kiting and being semi-tanky due to Black Cleaver, or Akali who just invalidates any means of interactivity in lane or Pyke who just wins the moment he gets ahead due to his general slipperiness and above average damage and consistency.

Isn't it strange how 9 out of the 17 champs posted here are relatively new?

ŚhunpoDec 16, 20182 votes

Nah that's just the Riot special.

ChuShoeDec 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Nah that's just the Riot special.

I'm just saying, maybe in an attempt to keep new champions unique, they remove the idea that the champions kit needs to be fun, or fair.

ŚhunpoDec 16, 20182 votes

Most definitely. They try to make these newer champs/reworks unique in an attempt to make it seem like they care about them, and about the community as a whole. But in the case of reworks this has more than divided each champ's mains significantly, especially with the Aatrox rework.

I agree though, fun and fairness aren't the first thing on their minds.....unless we're talking about the assassin update, which is a story for another day.

HügöDec 16, 20182 votes

Because there are only 10 bans available?

BoilTheOilDec 16, 20181 votes

Why do people ban yasuo hes fun to play against

saltranDec 16, 20185 votes

No he's not

Ozzie StormDec 16, 20181 votes

because everyone 1shots these days, it's no longer a zoe only issue. What is deserving of a ban is no longer "the one who 1 shots" but "the one out of many that one shots with the most obnoxious kit".