So we are basically back to mid laners running teleport again

HateDaddy··6 votes·1,528 views

Can we change this so that there's actually disincentives to taking it in any lane other than top? Yes, in top lane we need it for global presence but we also need it because top lane is such a violent series of match-ups that teleport is our saving grace in bad match-ups that at the very least prevents us from being starved in experience so we can actually be somewhat functional.

I am so damn tired of other roles and lanes ruining everything for top laners. We actually depend on these items and spells and while we understand there are clear abuse cases here and they need to be adjusted, can we adjust them so that they're not just a fucking nerf to us for no reason?

Split pushers want teleport late game for global pressure. Early game weak champions want it to survive lane. Early game bullies want it to bully lane indefinitely and the potential for global presence becomes a bonus and a nice fall back plan. But for us a botched teleport to another lane is fucking huge while a mid laner couldn't care less. That tells you that we actually need the spell for more than just global pressure.

So what do I propose? Take away it's global effect to level 13 and make each level scale it's range. Make it's range complete dog shit until levels 11+ so that the spell becomes more useful for laning and having that he it's primary function as opposed to a glorified Shen ult minus the cockblockage. I realize this hurts top laners global presence early and that sucks but for the love of god, at this rate mid laners are going to get the fucking spell deleted.

24 Comments

Rebonack7 votes

How about we make disincentives for every fucking person on both teams taking Flash first?

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

How about we make disincentives for every fucking person on both teams taking Flash first?

Unrelated and false equivalence. Riot has basically stated the game is balanced around flash and it's instrumental to the functionality of so many kits that weakening it in any manner would have a colossally negative impact on such a large portion of the roster that the game itself would feel like total shit. You could argue this should be true with teleport as well at this point but we've clearly seen otherwise.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

[deleted]

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dZE4z3Gp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T21:29:26.543+0000)

I will argue that. Mid can go teleport if they want to. There is no rule that mid champs have to go ignite or barrier, just like it isn't a rule that top lane champions have to get teleport. I play mid and sometimes I feel good without Ignite. Ignite is more early game spell anyway, because late game, you have both the burst and usually a team to confirm a kill so ignite does not mean much. Teleport, on the other hand, is a good spell for all stages of the game: get back to lane quicker, gank, go to this lane, that lane, get to team fights after a quick recall.

The difference here is that teleport is basically become an essential spell in top lane and while it's not technically mandatory in top, not having it from a top laner post 20 minutes becomes a massive burden so in reality it is mandatory. Mid laners don't use it for the same reason, they use it for random global pressure. If at any point they're using it to lane indefinitely, that's fine by me. But seeing a mid laner botch a TP play and feel almost no effects from it while also being the reason the spell has basically been nerfed to hell in back is frustrating as hell from a top laners point of view.

Xavanic4 votes

i wouldn't mind summoner spells being deleted from the game as a whole

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

i wouldn't mind summoner spells being deleted from the game as a whole

That is a change Riot likely will never explore. The amount of work this would create would likely be impossible for Riot to ever get comfortably consistent.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Lets be real, We mid laners are the reason almost every sum spell has been nerfed.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

Unrelated and false equivalence. Riot has basically stated the game is balanced around flash and it's instrumental to the functionality of so many kits that weakening it in any manner would have a colossally negative impact on such a large portion of the roster that the game itself would feel like total shit. You could argue this should be true with teleport as well at this point but we've clearly seen otherwise.

It's less that the game is balanced around Flash and more that the game is built around Flash at this point. The size and spacing of brush, the arrangement of various walls, even the length of many tether abilities. By making Flash so centralizing to the game Riot is committing one of the cardinal sins of game design, false choice.

Any time the player is given options, all those options should be coming with opportunity cost. If there's no real opportunity cost then the options should simply be removed so they aren't traps for inexperienced players. Aside from a few edge cases, how many champs would be impacted by making Summoners fixed based on your lane?

Here's how it has worked (with a few exceptions) for the past couple years.

Jungler takes Flash and Smite. Top takes Flash and Teleport. Farmer takes Flash and Heal. Support takes Flash and Exhaust. Mid takes Flash and whatever Summoner Spell Riot is going to nerf next.

DrCyanide5 votes

Eh, it's Mid Lane. Every Summoner Spell in the game gets used Mid Lane at some point.

I'd contend that's how it should be for all lanes, rather than this "pick 1 spell plus Flash" lock in.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Eh, it's Mid Lane. Every Summoner Spell in the game gets used Mid Lane at some point.

I'd contend that's how it should be for all lanes, rather than this "pick 1 spell plus Flash" lock in.

Yes and I'm tired of mid laners getting balanced spells nerfed because they have the luxury of taking whatever the hell they wanted. I wouldn't care if riot wouldn't nerf the spells in the first place but the reality is, they do.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Top laners can take other summoners spells too, people just don't do it.

Tanks and ADCs are locked mostly to TP/Flash and Heal/Flash, respectively, though

Penns3 votes

Fizz Im in bad matchups and a splitpusher too th0

Big Lincoln1 votes

I hate tp on any lane, remove pls

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

I'd be fine with removing TP altogether but then uninteractive top laners that do little but mindlessly splitpush would completely take over the meta so hard it wouldn't even be funny

Yorick Tryndamere Nasus Gangplank come to mind, along with a bunch of divers

HateDaddy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dZE4z3Gp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-04-26T21:32:01.356+0000)

I'd be fine with removing TP altogether but then uninteractive top laners that do little but mindlessly splitpush would completely take over the meta so hard it wouldn't even be funny

Yorick Tryndamere Nasus Gangplank come to mind, along with a bunch of divers

It would also ruin the early games of the likes of Nasus and gangplank (at least top GP)

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Not at all. Gangplank takes exhaust, I'm not sure what you're saying. Nasus takes TP, sure, but he's difficult to force out of lane unless you are a super ham lane bully, and that leaves you open to ganks. Nasus is completely fine with a quiet farm fest for 15 minutes before he absolutely has to back and get his items. He's the poster boy of top lane being an island and removing TP would not only help him push but alleviate the problems he has in using it offensively to roam or counter-roam. New Herald would alleviate the pushing problem.

Regardless, both have decent sustain, ways to farm efficiently, scale, and can give just as good what they get. They are also pushing gods and removing TP would lower the agency of their lane opponent to stop said push in the early-mid game.

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dZE4z3Gp,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T21:43:14.532+0000)

Not at all. Gangplank takes exhaust, I'm not sure what you're saying. Nasus takes TP, sure, but he's difficult to force out of lane unless you are a super ham lane bully, and that leaves you open to ganks. Nasus is completely fine with a quiet farm fest for 15 minutes before he absolutely has to back and get his items. He's the poster boy of top lane being an island and removing TP would not only help him push but alleviate the problems he has in using it offensively to roam or counter-roam. New Herald would alleviate the pushing problem.

Regardless, both have decent sustain, ways to farm efficiently, scale, and can give just as good what they get. They are also pushing gods and removing TP would lower the agency of their lane opponent to stop said push in the early-mid game.

you clearly haven't played Nasus if you think he could survive without TP lol. His early game is so utter shit, deleting TP would basically delete Q max Nasus. E max nasus on the other hand, he wouldn't have this trouble but E max Nasus also falls off the face of the earth post 25 minutes.

Gangplank could be okay but there's still numerous examples of champions who currently depend on TP taking massive hits. And the lane would suddenly favor very early game centric characters with ignite. I'm not saying that I enjoy top lane being in the shape it's in because I do miss the days of variety in summoner spell selection in top but the game has become formed and shaped in a way that makes TP effectively mandatory on top laners.

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dZE4z3Gp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-04-26T21:32:01.356+0000)

I'd be fine with removing TP altogether but then uninteractive top laners that do little but mindlessly splitpush would completely take over the meta so hard it wouldn't even be funny

Yorick Tryndamere Nasus Gangplank come to mind, along with a bunch of divers

It's the other way around, they'll be completely driven out of the meta (besides GP) because while they're splitting, the other team is forcing a 5v4 and winning the game.

LyingOnLine1 votes

I'd reduce the range so you can reach tier 1 towers from fountain, but add the reduced cooldown on tower TPs back in.

And reduce the channel back down to 3 seconds.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

Not only that, but if the enemy top has ignite, unless they're a potato, they'll almost always win a 1v1

TeemoXNidalee1 votes

Everyone takes flash and it wasn't deleted yet, relax, they're not deleting teleport because 2 roles are now taking it.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Everyone takes flash and it wasn't deleted yet, relax, they're not deleting teleport because 2 roles are now taking it.

Once again, flash is completely different at this point. They have deleted summoner spells before and while teleport being deleted would certainly be unprecedented, I can see a scenario where they do delete it.

Troll for Trump3 votes

They really, really gutted TP last season

Sohleks1 votes

Are there mid laners using TP in a major way right now other than Fizz? Fizz is a special case that takes it to nullify the first part of his laning phase.

Nerfing TP range to a shorter circle based on level would hurt it for top laners even more than mid laners. Not only is the top lane further away from the fountain but they are also the furthest away from bot lane. And you'll have plenty of oddness in that you need to partially head to lane before level 8 or whatever before TP is an option and at that point the spell may as well not exist. It'd be more likely to stay mid. Then top lane just might entirely change around fighting summoners. Which may be fun. If volatile. The combat summoners are very rewarding to have if you're confident in your ability in your next game. I find I don't actually use TP to game changing effect every game. Teemo is much more fierce to fight against with both flash and ghost. That extra slipperiness foes can fail to account for.

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