Junglers need to be overpowered as shit

HateDaddy·Dec 16, 2014·60 votes·4,607 views

To compete with Lee Sin.

There's no long winded post here or depth, it's a simple statement and true. History speaks for itself, the only time other junglers are good is when they're overpowered as shit. And the best that does for them is put them in Lee Sins tier, until they get take 1-2 nerfs that ruin them.

Yep reddit and pros and monte Cristo, the most historically nerfed champion in the game who is still God tier despite all of that is definitely the most balanced champion in the game. Good call.

75 Comments

TeemoJenkinsDec 16, 201416 votes

Overpowered as shit? Meaning like really bad gas? Or street taco vendor levels of diarhea?

HateDaddyDec 16, 201423 votes

{quoted}

Overpowered as shit? Meaning like really bad gas? Or street taco vendor levels of diarhea?

Don't act like those tacos aren't good

Sure you scream bloody murder in the bathroom a few hours later but initially you're like "holy shit this dog meat taco is so good"

ImHerVoiceDec 16, 20145 votes

I can vouch they're good. I actually went to tokyo and had some street vendor foods. lol But my god... pepto or afk 3 hours in bathroom

FiskDec 17, 20143 votes

I believe this is the moment to say "worth".

SaevumDec 17, 20144 votes

Flashback bathroom scene:

"Not worth, not worth..."

Knight SoIaire Dec 16, 20149 votes

he gets a rework

also he isnt op because he is stronger than others he is op because he fits any place and any situation quite good while other champions have rather narrow areas in which they feel goos (vi likes to be in offense not in the defense, udyr likes when there is nothing happening early so he can stack, yi likes when there is no cc around while lee sin gives no sht because whatever happens he can do something flashy) He represents the same problem as pre nerf elise did (also pre nerf elise was the only jungler who realy competed with lee sin and the reason for her dominance was the same), pre nerf elise was doing everything good and could build in any way to work, so whatever she found she was able to both counter it with her kit and her items

but riot wont rework them anytime soon because they arent high priority (i agree with them here), higher priority are champions who mechanicaly fell out of game or cause toxic cases
so when riot finishes projects like taric yorick urgot and fiora they will get elise and lee ...just be patient

JamnonDec 16, 20141 votes

Oh wait let's work on Tristiana before those because she is clearly in a worse place than any of them.

/Sarcasm

ZydronDec 17, 20141 votes

I don't think you know the difference between "rework" and small nerfs that take a champ to a balanced level

Knight SoIaire Dec 17, 20141 votes

i think that he knows the main problem riot struggles with after all (from the time they went full retard on lcs ballance) is the overall potential of kits and the stuff they require to function he proposed tristana because she is totaly linear and her kit does not allow for some insane exploits besides adc items becoming stronger (fawourably for her) which buffs the entire class in general

so she makes a good example when you want sarcasm

JamnonDec 17, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXugLQ79,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-17T17:11:02.906+0000)

i think that he knows the main problem riot struggles with after all (from the time they went full retard on lcs ballance) is the overall potential of kits and the stuff they require to function he proposed tristana because she is totaly linear and her kit does not allow for some insane exploits besides adc items becoming stronger (fawourably for her) which buffs the entire class in general

so she makes a good example when you want sarcasm

This guy gets it.

huntsodaDec 17, 20141 votes

To be fair, the Lee Sin issue is toxic, at some point, because even if you don't see a lot of Lee Sin, reading any post here or on patch comments will me "Lee Sin nerf?" or "Lee Sin is OP"; there is the appearance of a lack of diversity in the jungle, even if that's not true.

Laughing FishDec 16, 20147 votes

Lee Sin is a force to be sure, but he is not nearly as OP as people pretend. You just have to learn to counter him.

Knight SoIaire Dec 16, 201424 votes

80% of lee sins ability is to counter whatever he finds (my personal opinion when i look at kit that has literaly everything in it)

if lee sin loses i am 100% sure that its because he failed somehow not because he was countered (now i speak from my experience )

Laughing FishDec 16, 20143 votes

I'm not saying Lee is not OP. All I am saying as that he is not THAT overpowered. I think just a smaller nerf like they did to Kat would fix him completely.

JunkοDec 16, 201413 votes

No it wouldn't. Katarina and Lee Sin are 2 entirely different champions. Katarina E's in and either gets focused and dies or kills the entire enemy team. Once she goes in there is no coming back. Lee Sin goes in and fucks up? W's out, his R probably cc'd and damaged the enemy team enough (no really knockback+knockup + 600 base dmg plus 2 AD ratio) for his team to fix all the mistakes he did.

Katarina tries to fight early and fucks up? She is dead and will have trouble coming back.

Lee Sin fights early? 100% won fight because he has everything in his kit that makes other junglers irrelevant. Missing hp damage, high base ratios, shield, lifesteal, spellvamp, ms slow. Even if he misses every single skill somehow he is just gonna use his infinite mobility in the jungle to get away while junglers like Amumu cry.

HayaishiDec 16, 20143 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXugLQ79,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2014-12-16T18:42:23.950+0000)

No it wouldn't. Katarina and Lee Sin are 2 entirely different champions. Katarina E's in and either gets focused and dies or kills the entire enemy team. Once she goes in there is no coming back. Lee Sin goes in and fucks up? W's out, his R probably cc'd and damaged the enemy team enough (no really knockback+knockup + 600 base dmg plus 2 AD ratio) for his team to fix all the mistakes he did.

Katarina tries to fight early and fucks up? She is dead and will have trouble coming back.

Lee Sin fights early? 100% won fight because he has everything in his kit that makes other junglers irrelevant. Missing hp damage, high base ratios, shield, lifesteal, spellvamp, ms slow. Even if he misses every single skill somehow he is just gonna use his infinite mobility in the jungle to get away while junglers like Amumu cry.

god you're a special kind of stupid discussing balance when you're blinded by your hatred.

JunkοDec 16, 20149 votes

Or you could look at Lee Sin's balance history. He got a lot of number nerfs and still stayed viable. So more number nerfs wouldn't help.

Also Katarina is an assassin and Lee Sin is a bruiser (who can still do an assassins job better than them if he buys a ton of AD). No point comparing them

ŹenjiDec 17, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXugLQ79,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2014-12-16T18:42:23.950+0000)

No it wouldn't. Katarina and Lee Sin are 2 entirely different champions. Katarina E's in and either gets focused and dies or kills the entire enemy team. Once she goes in there is no coming back. Lee Sin goes in and fucks up? W's out, his R probably cc'd and damaged the enemy team enough (no really knockback+knockup + 600 base dmg plus 2 AD ratio) for his team to fix all the mistakes he did.

Katarina tries to fight early and fucks up? She is dead and will have trouble coming back.

Lee Sin fights early? 100% won fight because he has everything in his kit that makes other junglers irrelevant. Missing hp damage, high base ratios, shield, lifesteal, spellvamp, ms slow. Even if he misses every single skill somehow he is just gonna use his infinite mobility in the jungle to get away while junglers like Amumu cry.

Amumu will just q, ult?? and teamates will engage..

JunkοDec 17, 20142 votes

Ye Amumu will Q ult and cc that tank and bruiser in front of enemy team. Meanwhile Lee Sin will find a way to use his trinket, W and Q to get to your ADC and kick them into his team.

Knight SoIaire Dec 17, 20143 votes

if we talk about being mistake proof amumu is a bad idea

he q's ults and it turnsd out that he underestimated the distance he covered thus there is no follow up, he gets rekt and there is no real engage (just the dead mummy)

AlorasenceDec 18, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXugLQ79,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2014-12-16T18:42:23.950+0000)

No it wouldn't. Katarina and Lee Sin are 2 entirely different champions. Katarina E's in and either gets focused and dies or kills the entire enemy team. Once she goes in there is no coming back. Lee Sin goes in and fucks up? W's out, his R probably cc'd and damaged the enemy team enough (no really knockback+knockup + 600 base dmg plus 2 AD ratio) for his team to fix all the mistakes he did.

Katarina tries to fight early and fucks up? She is dead and will have trouble coming back.

Lee Sin fights early? 100% won fight because he has everything in his kit that makes other junglers irrelevant. Missing hp damage, high base ratios, shield, lifesteal, spellvamp, ms slow. Even if he misses every single skill somehow he is just gonna use his infinite mobility in the jungle to get away while junglers like Amumu cry.

Exactly.

Lee Sin is low risk, high reward. Katarina is high risk, high reward.

Big difference.

RikariDec 17, 20142 votes

how do you counter 3 movement spells

Laughing FishDec 17, 20141 votes

item 3022 summoner 3 item 3116 item 3143 and item 3153 all are good items to counter his movement, as are stun/slow type moves.

MrSexyHoboDec 17, 20148 votes

no they arent. slow dont effect dashes

ArsenalsDec 17, 20146 votes

Lee Sin is actually not that great this patch.

BigIdeaDec 17, 20143 votes

it's obvious to anyone that has a decent grasp of the game, which tells me this isn't really a serious thread. doubt the OP thinks lee is strong but he has been spamming the same thread for months probably just trying to see how many people he can get to jump on the 'lee is obscenely powerful' bandwagon.

ŹenjiDec 17, 20141 votes

Shit clear times etc.

Best Lee Sin OHDec 17, 20141 votes

Lee Sin hasn't been that great since the AS slow removal and his W nerfs, won't stop shitters from crying about him.

Hyrum GraffDec 16, 20145 votes

Honestly I think it has to do with the jungle. In order to survive on its meager income, you NEED to be overpowered as shit.

Buff jungle gold, nerf lee sin, problem... probably not solved, but at least in a better place than before.

Knight SoIaire Dec 17, 20142 votes

usualy junglers arent op and many of them sucks at laning but there is one main trait that junglers tend to have its a specific tradeoff where they have realy potent skills which are taxed in mana costs instead of cooldowns or damage

look at a guy like jarwan, couple of spears which arent 100% sure to hit can drain his mana easy so its not wise to take thim on lane as couple of jukes will destroy him, but if you will get him a blue buff he can spamm the thing and his overall power gets higher

the same thing is with vi who will literaly dry herself out with 5 e's early

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXugLQ79,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2014-12-17T17:15:17.928+0000)

usualy junglers arent op and many of them sucks at laning but there is one main trait that junglers tend to have its a specific tradeoff where they have realy potent skills which are taxed in mana costs instead of cooldowns or damage

look at a guy like jarwan, couple of spears which arent 100% sure to hit can drain his mana easy so its not wise to take thim on lane as couple of jukes will destroy him, but if you will get him a blue buff he can spamm the thing and his overall power gets higher

the same thing is with vi who will literaly dry herself out with 5 e's early

That's a more nuanced and accurate statement than mine, thanks for sharing.

CoolKnightSTDec 17, 20145 votes

They just need to create some weaknesses for lee sin. I would like to see him more of a counter jungler. What about this:

Attackspeed nerf
Lee Sin now has his sight radius reduced to X: Enemy champions and neutral monsters within 1300-units that move within the Fog of War have their position revealed for Lee Sin and his allies.

You can't outrun a lee. But you now can hide from him. Granting him more utility while lowering his other strength could probaly bring him in line.

NudzDec 17, 20141 votes

You know I wouldn't be too against that; and I'm a Lee Sin main. Very creative concept, good job

VaurenDec 16, 20144 votes

What's really fun is when you decide to go Volibear jungle and Lee Sin, being Lee sin, thinks he can come into your jungle lvl 1. Volibear proceeds to kill Lee Sin despite how OP he is :D

Knight SoIaire Dec 17, 20141 votes

volibear catches lee ? thats rare

HayaishiDec 16, 20143 votes

You just want upvotes.

We all know Lee Sin is retarded there's no need to make a daily Lee Sin thread

UiruDec 17, 20143 votes

{quoted}

You just want upvotes.

We all know Lee Sin is retarded there's no need to make a daily Lee Sin thread

Until Riot does something about it, the Lee Sin threads should be hourly. ~Uiru

WizzleboomDec 17, 20142 votes

Never stop.

Why do they care if some Sin mains gets salty about nerds anyway? There are actually 100+ others they can play.

Screw Lee Sin. Your time is up!

Knight SoIaire Dec 17, 20141 votes

riot has spoken already lee sin is on the rework list but not a high priority one so after they finish guys like taric urgot and yoric they will get him

Chromatic EagleDec 16, 20143 votes

Currently (always) Lee Sin is an issue, but since a Red commented on Lee Sin's mobility being his defining feature, maybe one day soon(tm) he'll get a rework that brings him down.

MatezoideDec 16, 20143 votes

Ever since Lee was created, the jungle meta became composed of two things:

Lee Sin
The 2-3 Champions that Lee doesnt shit at too badly

It is disgusting how he is allowed to single handily push every single tank jungler (Save for Amumu in solo que) into shit tier and remain a dominant force regardless of what class the jungle favours because he is great at everything.

DeadAsDustDec 17, 20143 votes

Lee didn't push tanks out of the jungle, tanks are just terrible in general at the moment.

Zen FuryDec 17, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Lee didn't push tanks out of the jungle, tanks are just terrible in general at the moment.

Yep. Has nothing to do with Lee Sin. It's a general game issue.

Knight SoIaire Dec 20, 20141 votes

thou you can disagree that among all of counter junglers lee would decimate tanks hardest (udyr and shywana can be outrunned and collapsed on )

Magma Lux MidDec 16, 20142 votes

A Lee Sin tried to ward jump away to safety once. I threw the zone of silence down and he couldn't safeguard while my team caught up and killed him instantly. He also tried to q to my ADC once or twice. Threw down the zone of silence and he did no damage since Lucian could dash away and burst him down.

1XSwiftXAlienDec 17, 20142 votes

lel... truth is mate. It's not the champs who suck... it's the players who don't cooperate with their team.

chumblerDec 17, 20142 votes

But you see, you are not considering the #LCSBIGPLAYS.

PsyFi SamuraiDec 17, 20142 votes

Lee is in a good place I think.

(note that I didn't use /s)

WizzleboomDec 16, 20141 votes

Just nerf him to the ground already. Nobody gives a shit about him anymore. Nerf it.

Ariel the CruelDec 17, 20142 votes

Just nerf him to the ground already.

They tried that.

Nobody gives a shit about him anymore. Nerf it.

This was disproven. GREATLY disproven. And is, according to a Morello post, the very reason he didn't get nerfed. It's not because of "LC$ BIG PLAY$!". It's because, for thirty days and thirty nights, his fan base rained hell on them. On the opposite end, champions with small fan bases get pushed aside (see Karma, Cassiopia, and Sion).