Another lie.

Niyumi··4 votes·1,314 views

"We try to make sure that the champion you pick doesn't determine the outcome of your game, rather it's what you do and the decisions you make that have a larger effect"

... yeah, sorry, I have no reason to believe that. When you look at all the champs that have 30%+ pickrates and 52%+ winrates, and then look at all the champs that have a <45% winrate, I have no reason to believe that. When I can look at a team in champ select and instantly know which one wins barring major skill differences, I have no reason to believe that.

Poppy vs. Irelia

Kassadin vs. Viktor

Chogath vs. Elise

MissFortune + Thresh vs. Jhin + Morgana

Which team do you think automatically wins? (Hint, it's the team that has 3 nearly 100% pick/ban LC$ champs for years running now -- but they're DEFINITELY not issues)

59 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear8 votes

You know this isn't healthy. You can't just keep on doing stuff like this, always zeroing in on the negative side of things. That is a surefire way to cause stress, and this leads to health problems later on.

Besides, I have a feeling I know what's really up. What you feel is fear.

This fear will lead to anger, and this anger will lead to hate. The hate will lead to suffering.

And I sense much fear in you.

Niyumi1 votes

So, Star Wars quotes aside, what're you getting at?

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

That you surely have better things to do than rant about a game that you clearly find problems in. Even though half of these problems stem from you and the other half stem from you misunderstanding how the game works.

The other half is the current patch.

Niyumi2 votes

No, I don't really have anything better to do. Gimme generation killed off any other games I enjoy, so I'm stuck playing this one. I have no friends. I live in an area where there's nothing to do. I don't work every day. I can't afford school.

So... yeah. Not a lot of things to do.

TyrekGoldenspear5 votes

Then write something. A piece of literature.

Niyumi1 votes

Write? In today's society that teaches you reading is a terrible thing? I'd rather not. Besides, no one reads fantasy anymore. All those books from the 70s to 90s are just gathering dust in libraries. Would just be a waste of time and effort.

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

? Who da heck says that?

Niyumi1 votes

No one says it, but everyone (especially in entertainment) enforces it.

midnight oil241 votes

Like I said, Deltora quest is a modern fantasy series that'll scratch that itch for you. It's 15 books long. And that's just the first main characters.

Niyumi1 votes

You've never told me that series before. I'll go look it up though, thanks. ^^

Edit: 100-132 pages per book won't last me long. :P Maybe a day per book. xD The books I read are typically ~700-800 pages, and they last 4-5 days (I read between classes at college).

midnight oil241 votes

Buy the full collection of the first 8 volumes then. That's around 700 pages.

Then there's deltora shadowlands, then also dragons of deltora. They're shorter, but just as good. Except Shadowlands. They dont' make use of the awesome setting well enough.

Ralanr1 votes

{quoted}

You've never told me that series before. I'll go look it up though, thanks. ^^

Edit: 100-132 pages per book won't last me long. :P Maybe a day per book. xD The books I read are typically ~700-800 pages, and they last 4-5 days (I read between classes at college).

Wait I thought you couldn't afford school?

Niyumi1 votes

My parents agreed to help out a bit, and I got a job last week. So I can take a few classes each quarter.

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

In today's society that teaches you reading is a terrible thing?

hmmm

midnight oil242 votes

Then you have better things you could be doing than griping about league.

Let's see, there are books to read, videos to watch, animals to observe, etc. Write something, like Tyrek suggested. There's always somethign better to do.

Niyumi1 votes

I've been reading since I was 4, and I've read THOUSANDS of books. I've just about exhausted the fantasy genre, and I don't enjoy anything else -- plus, modern authors are just garbage.

And there are no animals to observe in the middle of a city.

LordGeovanni1 votes

if they are better things you just found a reason not to play league.

midnight oil242 votes

I certainly know theat they're reasons not to play league. I play league because I want to have fun, not throw a temper tantrum on teh forums when a game doesn't go my way.

LordGeovanni1 votes

dont gripe on the forums then. but that is what forums are primarily for to tell the company what is wrong with the game then for socializing of the community. if you dont agree say that if you agree say that but dont come and tell a person not to share their view.

midnight oil241 votes

I was talking more of the people who throw hissy fits when they lose one match against a Jarvan and suddenly he's op.

I'm fine with people sharing their views, I just feel that they need logic and reason to back it up. What use is an argument without evidence?

LordGeovanni1 votes

that's how we make things better by completely ignoring the problems

DrCyanide6 votes

According to champion.gg

Poppy vs Irelia favors Poppy: 52.06% Kassadin vs Viktor favors Kassadin: 58.22% Chogath vs Elise favors Elise: 61.70% MissFortune vs Jhin favors Miss Fortune: 52.53% Thresh vs Morgana favors Morgana: 51.71%

So if we tally it up: Left Team - (0.52 + 0.58 + 0.39 + 0.52 + 0.48) / 5 = 0.498 = 49.8% win rate Right Team - 1 - 0.498 = 0.502 = 50.2% win rate

So... yeah. They look pretty even. About as even as you could ask for. What was your point again?

TyrekGoldenspear7 votes

... Well I bet that wasn't expected on OP's part.

Kinda undermines his whole argument.

Ralanr1 votes

Beautiful.

Niyumi1 votes

In lane, Poppy can win, sure. But, once the teams start roaming, Irelia annihilates everyone.

In lane, Kassadin does nothing to Viktor -- no one can do anything to Viktor. He might be able to roam, but with every other lane being fed / made up of bullshit, there's not much he can do.

Elise dramatically out-performs Cho in every regard, and destroys everyone that isn't Kass, since he's the only one that can get away from her particular brand of bullshit.

Jhin is broken, Morgana is broken. MF is situationally broken, Thresh is annoying. Broken + Broken vs. Semi-broken, the double broken wins hands down, especially considering the rest of their team.

So, top goes even, Kass falls behind Viktor unless he roams (in this case he couldn't), Cho does nothing while Elise carries, and Jhin + Morg stomp the other bot laners. Come teamfights, half of team 1 is behind or struggling, and all of team 2 is ahead with more damage and CC anyway.

Despite your numbers, what actually happens in the game says otherwise.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

In lane, Poppy can win, sure. But, once the teams start roaming, Irelia annihilates everyone.

Press W when Irelia tries to dive and watch how useless she is.

Niyumi1 votes

Except a smart Irelia would know what Poppy's W does and bait it out, go around it or go in when Poppy can't cast it.

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

Numbers > Your ramblings.

Niyumi2 votes

Numbers exist in a vacuum, where nothing happens. The game is not a vacuum, and a lot of things happen. Numbers are not infallible (this is why we disprove scientific theories and hypotheses all the time).

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Right. And your ramblings can also be treated as a theory, another thing that is never constant.

Your rants about this game almost never happen the way you describe. Every game is different, and you can't just throw your assumptions at the game and expect a consistent result.

Niyumi1 votes

Except every time I come in here complaining, it's because of something that literally just happened to me. And, a lot of those complaints are constant, since they happen nearly every game.

I'll also start writing down my guesses for which team wins based PURELY on the champs they picked, and I'll put a tally up here when I get to 100 or so, have some evidence to back it up.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

K, but don't forget to also have like 10-20 other people do the exact same thing if you want this data to be treated as statistically sound.

Or just use OP.gg and all the work is done for you

DrCyanide2 votes

Scientific hypothesis fail, usually for want of data (aka: we need more numbers). Scientific theories seldom, if ever, fail. Gravity is a scientific theory, you haven't gone floating off into space recently I assume.

There are 359 games played this patch alone that say more often than not Kassadin wins the game against Viktor. Your single experience, by contrast, is in a vacuum.

Niyumi2 votes

A theory is our best understanding to date. Flat Earth Theory, for example, was accepted as fact for the longest time, and was proven untrue. We don't even know what gravity is, but we know it's a thing and it holds us to the ground.

Both theories and hypotheses are disproved all the time. That's what makes science so great.

DrCyanide1 votes

The numbers ignore laning phase or kills, they only look at winning games when both champions are played proficiently.

A Kassadin that knows what they're doing murders Viktor. Everything from Kassadin's passive to his Q's shield to his slow to his Rift Walk counters Viktor. Viktor can't do anything against it.

The game basically came down to who could win their matchup harder, you or Elise.

Quepha4 votes

{quoted}

In lane, Poppy can win, sure. But, once the teams start roaming, Irelia annihilates everyone.

Then why does Poppy still tend to win games against her?

Niyumi1 votes

Well, a good Poppy (which mine was not) can put Irelia massively behind, where she can't contribute much to her team mid game. But a good Irelia will start roaming before then, and pick up kills elsewhere.

My guess would be that Poppy brings more to the team than Irelia does, making her winrate a little higher.

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

(which mine was not)

But the whole premise of your post is that picks matter and skill does not. Now you're blaming the loss on the SKILL of your teammate over the strength of their pick.

Niyumi1 votes

Okay, assuming equal skill, Irelia roams since she can't beat Poppy without jungler intervention, gets fed off of that, and Poppy has no gold to fight against her with. The now fed Irelia starts to win top lane, and then the game snowballs from there. Only thing Poppy can do against Irelia is peel her from squishies, and likely die in the process.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, assuming equal skill, Irelia roams since she can't beat Poppy without jungler intervention, gets fed off of that, and Poppy has no gold to fight against her with. The now fed Irelia starts to win top lane, and then the game snowballs from there. Only thing Poppy can do against Irelia is peel her from squishies, and likely die in the process.

If Irelia wins the game when we assume equal skill, then why do Poppys tend to win games against Irelias?

Niyumi1 votes

Because Poppy brings more utility to the team, while Irelia is just damage.

SithesisLord2 votes

In lane, Poppy can win, sure. But, once the teams start roaming, Irelia annihilates everyone.

Poppy can ult her away, Kassadin can Riftwalk away, Cho'Gath can silence her, Thresh has his entire kit to stop her. MF will be safe and Irelia will essentially be useless.

In lane, Kassadin does nothing to Viktor -- no one can do anything to Viktor.

False. Both of them. Kassadin still wins little over 58% of all games played against Viktor and there are a lot of champions who deal with Viktor just fine.

Elise dramatically out-performs Cho in every regard, and destroys everyone that isn't Kass, since he's the only one that can get away from her particular brand of bullshit.

And what bullshit might that be?

Jhin is broken, Morgana is broken. MF is situationally broken, Thresh is annoying. Broken + Broken vs. Semi-broken, the double broken wins hands down, especially considering the rest of their team.

Just because something is broken doesn´t mean mistakes can´t be made and lane trades can´t be lost. There are an abundance of possibilities to the outcome of that match with those team comps.

Also, Morgana, broken?

Morgana?

Broken?

Stop typing that word for over half the roster. I don´t think you know what it actually means in this game.

So, top goes even, Kass falls behind Viktor unless he roams (in this case he couldn't), Cho does nothing while Elise carries, and Jhin + Morg stomp the other bot laners. Come teamfights, half of team 1 is behind or struggling, and all of team 2 is ahead with more damage and CC anyway.

Despite your numbers, what actually happens in the game says otherwise.

These are a lot of what if scenarios at best. And just because they happened in one game, doesn´t mean they´ll happen in all of them. Skill, game knowledge, connection speeds, etc, they all can change the outcome of things.

Oh and i bothered checking the op.gg pages for all the players in that match.

The Elise mains the champion. So does the Irelia. Coincidentally, so does the Morgana. The Viktor doesn´t seem to play Viktor a lot, but most likely knew the matchup enough to take Exhaust, as well as realizing only you and MF would be doing the damage. And the Jhin has a surprisingly high winrate on the champion.

Now onto the other team

The Poppy plays Poppy but lost every single game this and past season, also, no Iceborn built. You took Barrier. While building RoA. I´m not complaining about RoA, just why would you take Barrier? Since everyone else in the other team has a shit ton of damage, Exhaust would´ve been considerably better. MF doesn´t even play MF. Thresh plays a good amount of the champion to qualify at least as a Thresh enthusiast. And finally, Cho'Gath has very little experience with the champion.

So Irelia would obviously win her lane, Elise would stomp Cho'Gath, the supports would go pretty even, so botlane could´ve gone either way, and apparently, Jhin/Morg did a better job.

Plus, the enemy team had the right idea. Double Exhaust and they essentially cut you and MF, the ONLY damage dealers of the team out of every teamfight they use those summoner spells on. The enemy team had all moderate to high damage dealers. Double Exhaust on your team wouldn´t have turned things around so hard and certainly not so quickly, but it could and most likely would have provided a much needed helping hand.

You weren´t curbstomped that game due to supposedly broken champions on the other team.

You were curbstomped simply because there were a lot of bad decisions in your team comp. From overall champion picks to keystone choices and builds.

Put simply, you got outplayed, outskilled AND outpicked from champ select. It has nothing to do with the state of some of the champions in that match in particular.

midnight oil241 votes

FANTASTIC.

That was amazing. It brought tears to my eyes.

Dynikus5 votes

literally the only champ there that doesn't see pro play is cho.

Niyumi1 votes

They might see pro play, but how many champs are just about 100% pick or ban? Elise Jhin Viktor (Not so much this season)

nm10101 votes

Ayyy I forgot you existed, we need to start watching your games again. That shit is funny as hell :D

Niyumi1 votes

That's creepy.

nm10101 votes

Not really you just attract the best kind of players, like that Vayne that pops ult q flash and starts shooting the chickens instead of Cho'gath. I swear to god I almost died "I will hunt those that have fallen to darkness, like these mother f*ckin chickens" LOL.

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