We have nerfed urgot because he countered too much dc

UdoIkOSc4u·Jan 1, 2015·11 votes·1,043 views

Meanwhile and countering melees even more

28 Comments

GiovarcoJan 1, 20155 votes

Because Vayne isn't Urgot . Anyway, no one plays Urgot , so Riot couldn't care less about him. He needs a rework, but i doubt it'll come before other two years.

P.S: I'm an Urgot main.

SookoJan 1, 20153 votes

P.S: I'm an Urgot main.

Respect!

chumblerJan 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Because isn't . Anyway, no one plays , so Riot couldn't care less about him. He needs a rework, but i doubt it'll come before other two years.

P.S: I'm an Urgot main.

Urgot does not need a rework, he just needs to be not nerfed to shit. Do you really want a Skarner, Sion, or Cass rework for him?

GiovarcoJan 2, 20153 votes

I am an Urgot main and I enjoy playing him, but I do not think that he is healthy champion (even if he has counterplay). I think that he has to be addressed towards a more AD-Caster or bruiser style. He can be both and is not competitive for this, I guess.

Do not misunderstand me. I amconvinced that If Riot rework him, people will just keep not playing him because he is ugly. I just want to see him receiving some love, even if It means that he will be upset.

NarasimhaJan 2, 20151 votes

Do you really want a Skarner, Sion

...Yes...? Or are we actually saying that two of the more successful reworks are bad now?

chumblerJan 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

two of the more successful reworks

Hhahahahahaha.

DryditchJan 2, 20151 votes

Sorry, but RIOT took a giant middle finger to my main champ and made him unplayable.

Sion has been removed from the game. What's left is a new and far shittier champion.

NarasimhaJan 2, 20151 votes

Wait, I'm seriously asking here, he was playable before? How did you build him? What did you like about him?

DryditchJan 2, 20151 votes

Sion had issues. Especially against ranged champs. Not gonna deny that, but you just had to play safe or not care about kd.

I chose the latter. PTFO: Play The Fucking Objective. Turrets? They die no matter what.

Q for initiate/escape and melee harrass. W to shrug off poke/mitigate E damage E, because lifesteal makes up for it. R wins team fights.

I played AD Sion and used his q and w for utility, as they were meant to be used.

He was a late game monster. With a Hydra and Herald, he healed his team through every teamfight with Ulti, then tanked a turret.

Sion played like a fearless warrior and a true general.

NarasimhaJan 2, 20152 votes

And you know what? I totally respect that. You like a guy, you like a guy no matter what. Now if you could do me the honor of hearing my side, that would be awesome.

Old AD Sion's issue was that he was one of the few champions that legitimately fell into the 'ball of stats' category. Sion didn't make plays because he couldn't make plays. His entire premise was "Do I have better stats than you? Then I win every fight." His passive was just wonky. Its not the right place for RNG. And his ult, while awesome, was pretty bland. Attack Speed and lifesteal. Either he outsustained everything, or he ran out of steam and became useless. Now I'm not saying that every champion needs to be a playmaker like Lee, but simply having the ability to make plays and therefor counterplays is always a good thing. Its why WW was being looked at for a rework, and why Olaf is still such a problem. AP Sion was another case entirely though. Mostly a weird one.

DryditchJan 2, 20151 votes

I'll be the first to say the passive was fucked and that the new W is better than the old W and E combined, but the new champion is just wrong.

Better passive would have been something that slowly gave him ramp up speed for running in a direction for longer.

The new E also doesn't feel right. I'd rather see Sion get some kind of aura effect than punt a minion.

New Ultimate has no strategy to it. Pop it close or miss.

Or use it and die immediately after.

Old ultimate made him fight for real. Your team took care of the restraints and you took your Axe to Jar4's face.

I never played Sion to be competitive. I played him to have fun.

HeadHonchkrowJan 2, 20151 votes

Me too

JunkοJan 1, 20154 votes

Every new ranged champ counter melees

NarasimhaJan 1, 20151 votes

And every melee with a gap closer wrecks ranged. Its a vicious cycle which leaves Mordekaiser crying.

JunkοJan 1, 20151 votes

To be fair Morde makes assassins cry..... and enemy junglers happy

CindikleJan 1, 20153 votes

Vayne can be countered though vision control and CC.

Urgot gets to build the damage of an ADC(well, close to it) while being very tanky. His ult alone gives him 120 mr/armor.

But I'll come out and say this, he is a horrible ADC. He's much better top lane. But he's also very gankable. Only way he was working as an ADC was with a Soraka mana bot. Which cannot be done anymore.

I think his range should drop to 350. Take him off the Marksman list, Redesign him as a fighter.

Done25Jan 1, 20151 votes

He is possible to still play. He certainly isn't as bad as Olaf. Ghostblade, Brustalizer (Black Cleaver when they get armor), and Ionian Boots for cdr.

Muramana for more Q damage and mana.

Frozen Mallet and Maw of Malmortius for tank.

The high amount of CDR makes it easier to fish with E untill you get a hit. Then let loose with Muramana boosted Qs to wipe out chunks of that pesky Vayne's HP.

Kuroi86Jan 1, 20151 votes

Vayne is a tank killer, it's what she was made to do. -_- That's like complaining because arpen counters armor when you can just as easily stack health against arpen.

Rinky DinkyJan 1, 20151 votes

Armor Pen in this game is a known issue. As is tanks being weak.

Kuroi86Jan 2, 20151 votes

Just because a lot of people complain about something, doesn't mean there's an actual issue.

Though yes, tanks are a little less efficient than they should be, they could do with some minor QoL buffs. The situation is hardly as dire as people seem to think.

The issue isn't armor pen, it's that people don't realize how to deal with it. Armor is stacked to counter AD or % damage, arpen counters armor, health counters arpen and AD/ % damage counters health. It's all a rock/paper/scissors thing.

Rinky DinkyJan 2, 20152 votes

Not really. It has been mathmatically proven that the amount of Armor Pen and Magic Pen Last Whisper and Void Staff for how little they cost is quite the problem. These items alone break Tanks, and squishies alike.

These items quite literally make Tanks squishy, and Squishies Squishier.

Kuroi86Jan 2, 20152 votes

The flat damage from LW and VS are the problem for squishies. The % pen that they give are harsh towards tanks, this is true. But more the issue is that effective health simply isn't feasible. Honestly if Riot would reintroduce a % health item, this could go a long way towards rebalancing defenses and making them cost efficient while still granting a means for them to tone it back a little if needed. Tanks aren't meant to be unstoppable, that's what brought about the meta golem and Riot is pretty terrified of that coming about again. But nerfing offensive stats would require several items and champs to be nerfed while one or two properly tank oriented items would go a long way towards putting proper tanks back on even footing without sending bruisers over the top.

chumblerJan 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The flat damage from LW and VS are the problem for squishies. The % pen that they give are harsh towards tanks, this is true. But more the issue is that effective health simply isn't feasible. Honestly if Riot would reintroduce a % health item, this could go a long way towards rebalancing defenses and making them cost efficient while still granting a means for them to tone it back a little if needed. Tanks aren't meant to be unstoppable, that's what brought about the meta golem and Riot is pretty terrified of that coming about again. But nerfing offensive stats would require several items and champs to be nerfed while one or two properly tank oriented items would go a long way towards putting proper tanks back on even footing without sending bruisers over the top.

Making the feedback loops worse and pigeon holing builds even more is not the fix to this problem. Itemization needs to be completely overhauled, not have more band-aids piled onto it. There's no way of avoiding it. And no, your proposition would not buff tanks while not buffing bruisers like you think it would. Literally anything that benefits tanks benefit bruisers, because the two types of champion are barely more than superficially different.

All your idea would succeed in doing is buffing bruisers and making the game revolve even more around percent health damage and carries.

Kuroi86Jan 2, 20152 votes

90% of items introduced into the game are a buff to bruisers. They are a near impossible to balance class. The reason I say a % health item is simple, bruisers need to build damage on top of tank. Tanks can build pure defense. A % health item would be more effective on tanks than bruisers and could be tweaked so that it just hits the mark for tanks while missing it for bruisers.

As for a overhaul, that's not likely to happen this year as the big project has already happened. Not to mention you've got to figure out where the problem is and how to fix it. Simply put, help tanks WITHOUT reinstating the meta golem. Even I'll admit I could be wrong with my idea. But the simple fact is, if we want tanks to get help, we need to figure out how to do it without going back to that meta which Riot is terrified of happening.

UdoIkOSc4uJan 2, 20151 votes

well for the moment we can revert botrk changes

Kuroi86Jan 2, 20153 votes

I'd rather just have it's on hit affected by Thornmail, but that could be a bit too drastic.

Rinky DinkyJan 2, 20151 votes

You seem to not know what and how a bruiser typically builds.

I would very much so laugh in the face of a bruiser that decided to waste money on a %hp item.

There are far more effecient items for bruisers.

Rinky DinkyJan 2, 20151 votes

This is correct. this game needs a % hp item.