This community is shit in judging who's balanced and broken

Burnt Light·Oct 1, 2015·76 votes·2,408 views

The most popular right now being how Veigar was considered weak and useless

But now that Froggen got a go with him, he's suddenly OP.

Shut the fuck up you band wagon LCS fappers and gtfo.

44 Comments

Kat HeadOct 1, 201511 votes

Froggen has nothing to do with viegar being to strong.

LeprechaunJinxOct 2, 20151 votes

It should be noted that Froggen's performance was more of a show of an idealized Veigar play rather than just something like what he does at more normalized levels.

You put one of the best farming professional players, on a farming champion, in their preferred role and position? Yeah, you're going to see something pretty incredible. Froggen showed more properly what the upper ceiling of skilled Veigar play can do, not what Veigar more often actually does. Yes, Veigar melted someone with two skills, his stun and W which has a high scaling ratio, and had over 1000 AP. In a normal game however, that number would be closer to an ideal 600-700 and your opponent likely would have had a more substantial amount of MR.

Veigar can certainly delete someone, but he's not an assassin and won't be getting out if he positions wrong or his opponents capitalize on laning phase. Get your basic core if needed but then work in as much MR as you can without setting yourself fully as a tank. item 3001 before item 3089 , item 3174 instead of item 3165 (if you don't absolutely need the Grievous Wounds), item 3155 into item 3156 instead of item 3142 , etc. Wanna really mess with a Veigar? Throw in an early item 3060 , he will not be able to kill it himself, turret and minions will have to do the work for him. item 3102 also works to mitigate most of his burst and cc (while also giving you windows to trade hard on him) since it's rare when you can fit in a item 3140 into your build path.

ChargeItDownMidOct 1, 201510 votes

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Burnt LightOct 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It is almost as if riot actively changed veiger in the past few weeks to make him significantly stronger than he was before.

The boards have been very good overall at judging champion power (with the exception of a few missteps like devourer junglers). It is only inaccurate when idiots like OP don't take patches into consideration.

The boards have been absolute shit with ignorant players that base off their calls on what they see pros at LCS do. To even justify that makes you part of the problem.

ChargeItDownMidOct 1, 201510 votes

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kJsOct 1, 20153 votes

That's not the Boards bro. The posts that you see in these boards which get over 100 upvotes and are genuinely well thought out, some aren't but the point is, chances are there was already a similar post in Reddit that has reached over 2000 upvotes, sometimes even more.

Riot trusts the Reddit League of Legends community more than those of the boards.

Corrupto123Oct 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Burnt Light,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dE2uAuIG,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-01T08:17:49.658+0000)

The boards have been absolute shit with ignorant players that base off their calls on what they see pros at LCS do. To even justify that makes you part of the problem.

here my friend, take an upvote to balance out the downvotes from LCS sheep I'm with you

Akali is SO HOTOct 1, 20152 votes

General Discussion is, for the most part, good at judging champion power aside from the idiots and trolls over there but G&B is filled with some of the stupidest people I have ever seen. After a few changes Veigar was in a pretty good spot but they wouldn't stop whining and now he is completely overpowered. Same with Lux. Everyone on G&B really has no idea what they're talking about lol.

CaramélaOct 1, 201510 votes

i dont know bout the community but i always thought that veigar's rework made him too strong and now with the "assists give u ap stacks".... ok no counters at all

LeprechaunJinxOct 2, 20151 votes

Probably poor wording to say no counters at all, I understand your intent but assists giving him AP as well doesn't really change how you play against him. Honestly the assists portion isn't the strongest change on him, it nets you a bit more AP certainly but 30-40 bonus would be average estimation. It really just means Veigar won't blow everything for the killsteal just to give himself more AP.

Is the amount too much for an assist? Maybe. Something like 3 or his usual 2 for lasthitting a minion with Q might be more appropriate but it's debatable if his assist potential is really the area that needs to be looked at.

Veigar's ratios haven't changed, this is important to note. In fact his ult got a 0.2 AP ratio reduction on rework. What is important is determining what part is the most consistent strength people have issue with. Do his abilities not cost enough mana anymore? Is it his cooldowns? Is it a specific cooldown that's too low? Is it his Q? Its range, cost, missile speed, etc.? Is it that his ult scales on enemy AP as well? If so how do you adjust it without just saying to get rid of that scaling? (Do you make it just have a higher flat ratio?). These are the questions that need to be asked to give a proper and concise feedback that can actually be understood and adjusted around.

CaramélaOct 2, 20151 votes

to be honest, i think that veigar was op even before his rework i dont know why they changed him. as i said in my first comment, a locked skill with such a high dmg (from any source it doesnt matter) is just wrong. imo, if they made his ulti a skill shot then he would be perfeclty balanced.

TotalJerkOct 1, 20154 votes

You guys remember the heavily upvoted threads about how the Garen and Skarner changes were supposed to ruin them. Boards know balance, right?

MordepoolOct 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You guys remember the heavily upvoted threads about how the Garen and Skarner changes were supposed to ruin them. Boards know balance, right?

Remember the Mordekaiser threads saying "gating a basic ability is dumb and would ruin him as a champion unless he had a babysitter. Sry you can't disract us with dragon"

Their may be a lot of dumb shit running around on the boards. But you can listen to the mains. Despite the obvious bias all mains have

TotalJerkOct 1, 20153 votes

I personally felt that Veigar was a balanced champion, but far too much of his power budget was shoved into his overloaded Q. Every buff after the rework, they just keep buffing Q, making matters worse.

On top of that I don't the whole infinite stacking thing can be balanced at all levels because there's a huge discrepancy in farming ability between tiers that leads to a champions viability being wildly variable between said tiers. You want Gold level players to be able to get a decent amount? then power farmers like Froggen become ridiculous with him. On the flipside trying to keep him balanced at Froggen tier results in a passive that's worthless for the average player.

RisenDarkKnightOct 1, 20152 votes

That's because they nerfed the crap out of veigar with his "compensation buffs." Then, because everyone complained and he had a 40% winrate, riot buffed him. And people still complained so they buffed him again and again. Then people stopped complaining because he was balanced thought still less fun to play than pre rework, but riot buffed him again for no particular reason. Now he is op. That's what 5 small buffs add up to. None of them were huge buffs but all together they made him strong; he has a ton of power in just his q.

BeatinWarDrumzOct 2, 20152 votes

FUCK YOU

im papa john

I eat dragonsOct 1, 20151 votes

[deleted]

kJsOct 1, 20151 votes

People just got tired and fed up with the Assassin meta with that. Riot took away all the silences from all Assassins in the game and now they are kinda bad, save for LeBlanc who still has her snare and generaly safety in outputting her damage without having the silence. RIP: Kassadin and Talon

FeathermaneOct 1, 20151 votes

The Boards agree with pro players on what the overpowered champions are, yet they are shit at judging champion strength? Then surely, so are the pros.

DanofDemaciaOct 1, 20151 votes

I never once thought veigar was weak I always new he was strong. A community is made up if different people.

seasonedfoxOct 1, 20151 votes

veigar is back to his old self 1 hitting people and all that bs ap or ad you will get 1 hit cause he is so weak right? full tank 1 hit.... full ad 1 hit all without death fire grasp

Shroom JunkieOct 1, 201517 votes

Veigar's always been a 1-hit mage. He just can't do it 'till late game or except when fed. People just didn't play him very much, let alone in the LCS, so everyone said he was UP. He's still UP. Its just because he was played in the LCS and owned that people call him OP. Called a circlejerk.

MelledoneusOct 2, 20151 votes

Talon is the exact same way, but pairing the words "Talon" and "buffs" will get you burned at the stake.

Livin like RivenOct 2, 20151 votes

Veigar is nowhere near UP. He ain't OP either but he is strong.

Axis the DragonOct 1, 20151 votes

They barely touched his damage at all since the rework

They just made him easier to use (like Lux), which probably made him seem a lot stronger as a result

My Waifu VanillaOct 2, 20151 votes

They gave him at least 25 AP per team fight if you ace them. You can literally stun or auto someone and get 5 AP with the latest change and while that buff may sound not very great on some mages, Veigar has 2 1-1 AP scaling abilities and his Q is also up there (0.6 I think). "But you can just zhonyas the ult" is a poor argument when you are stunned by either him or any other cc on his team.

Meeks011Oct 2, 20151 votes

Also he's immobile and his stun is so hard to land. You can blink through it or QSS it. His ult is his only targetted ability and it's SINGLE TARGET.

Ekko deals 550 +130% of AP to all enemies hit with his ultimate plus teleporting and massive heal but nobody is complaining about him.

VerxintOct 1, 20151 votes

These people still think Zilean is weak.

I have no sympathy for any of you when he suddenly becomes popular.

BudupopsOct 1, 20151 votes

same with u. hominid logic pls

IpolsOct 1, 20151 votes

I remember when I said he was totally fine in a thread asking for veigar buffs, Meddler was there. I received 300 downvotes and I was called an idiot. Ha.

LadyRenlyOct 2, 20151 votes

"Vayne is so broken, literally best adc, unbeatable with just bork"

Yet Sivir is the adc that everyone guns for

"Sated jgs are the most broken ever, they get sated and literally 1v5. And Rek Sai is a knock up bot"

Sated never sees use, Rek Sai is a contested pick, and the likes of Gragas see play often

I really don't trust this board

VekknaOct 2, 20151 votes

LCS pros are effectively playing a different game than the rest of us. When your games barely get to 30 minutes, of course you're not going to see Sated. If they could get Sated in 15 minutes in LCS, you would see it everywhere, and that's essentially what happens in the game the rest of us play (40-50 minutes games with 20-30 minute Sated)

BârdOct 2, 20151 votes

#redditknowsbalance

BakedLotionOct 2, 20151 votes

I'm pretty sure if someone gets buffed, they can become overpowered. I don't watch LCS or any E sports. I've always hated veigar. Pre rework. Post rework. Everything. I hated playing against him, but I never really complained. But the thing is, you can't just say " lol esports circlejerk " He was recently buffed. He gets more free AP and his W falls pretty damn quick now. He's not op. I agree. But you can't just say that hes bad with all the free power he just got

HEXXEN9xOct 2, 20151 votes

Hah, we the community are agreeing with you that we are $^%T.

I hate the Idea of LCS and avoid it like cancer, I dont need that garbage in my life.

Shadow GilgameshOct 2, 20151 votes

FAIRNESS: Riot is equally shit at it.

No one cared about Veigar till someone took him support in the LCS, then all of a sudden he's gotta have a delay on his cage, lose DFG, lose .2 AP ratio on ult, and his Q has to be a skillshot now.

ZzEslIolZQOct 2, 20151 votes

You're an idiot. Vei has been buffed every patch since his rework and his winrate shot from low 40s to 52+ and people have been bitching accordingly.

CISTERNOct 2, 20151 votes

When a champion has big popularity and good win ratios (above 50%), with a big presence competitive but average winratios competitive, this champion just needs to toned down, if a champion has big popularity and big win ratios but zero presence competitive, then players must learn how to deal with him, when a champion has good/average win ratios and big popularity at competitive and op win ratios with op popularity solo q he/she needs to get gutted.I dont believe in explanation reports about champions I believe in final numbers, boards use more times the statistical numbers instead of explanation reports. Boards are better, but many people on boards forget to use all the statistical numbers!

For CarthageOct 2, 20151 votes

Honestly, I still thought him good before the QoL buffs he got.

After them, it became way easier to stack his AP. After leveling your Q, a single teamfight could net you 25 more AP each time - basically a free amplifying tome.

It does make more sense to have it like that to discourage a Veigar from just trying to snipe his teammates kills and promote teamplay, but it's much easier to reach his one-shot point now, which may have been the only reason he started getting picked up by Froggen to begin with.

But again, still strong even before then. This just made it all easier.

AkesgerothOct 2, 20151 votes

I dread the GP nerfs coming now that a bunch of idiots will qq about him after seeing pros do well with him.

PassionlipOct 2, 20151 votes

Oh yeah, make a post about the community being shit filled of insults and toxic thinking.

Gg wp.

VekknaOct 2, 20151 votes

My beef with Veigar is that, on principle, I think it's fundamentally unfair for another champion's ulti to scale better with MY AP than my own ulti does.

Practically speaking, I have the same gameplay beef with Veigar that I have with Garen. His kit makes it too easy to recover from setbacks while still having insane snowball potential. And by "too easy," I mean it's easier than any feast-or-famine champ or utility mage who has to fall back on their support ability. If your enemy gets fed and builds a Deathcap, their snowball increases your damage. If you get fed and collect some takedowns, your snowball increases your damage. Too big of a hedge there.

As for the boards, the Veigar Victim Complex (tm) is clearly still in full swing. I totally support the QoL and consistency change they made here, but I think it would have been wise to implement an AP cap on his Q that increases with level or some sort of diminishing return to prevent the kind of crazy death spiral I'm seeing.

Last night I got hit by a Veigar ulti that did over 2500 damage from a single ability. Call me crazy, but I don't think that's something that should be possible. Check the match history for my last game. I had over 3500 hp, only around 450 AP, full tank masteries, and over 120 MR. 2500+ damage from a single skill should not be possible; it's the definition of unhealthy.