Boards›Gameplay

Fuck the Jungle Changes

Woodakoodashooda·May 30, 2018·48 votes·13,085 views

Nerfing an entire role is a good old fashioned knee to the groin to a large portion of the game's player base.

But it isn't the first time something this bad was done to the game. And it isn't the first time the jungle, specifically, was nerfed.

Last time it happened, it rendered all but two jungle champions very nearly obsolete because Riot thought it a good idea to make jungle monsters tankier and deal more damage to lessen the amount of ganks jungle could give in between camps.

It was such a horrendous decision that even Riot reverted the change!

This time around it's the exp that got nerfed.

It takes far too long to reach 6 and even longer to reach 11 that by the time a jungle can even put a second point into their ultimate, the game is likely already decided!

But at least we have crabs to help compensate, right?

WRONG! Each attempt at farming that thing will likely result in a death match unless one of the oh so helpful mid laners decided to smite it first!

But-but-but pathing. What about pathing? These changes make it so pathing is more unique and varied!

Who the hell asked for that? Who the hell wanted diversity added to their farming? It's the middle of the season for crying out loud!

Laners don't have to put up with that bullshit; so, why should jungle?

I don't like farming at a snail's pace, I don't like engaging in a death match over a crab, I don't like being expected to gank a solo lane that is 2-3 levels above me.

Fuck the Jungle Changes!

39 Comments

LittleOakMay 30, 201812 votes

Bump, as a jungle main who queues with 5 mans, every single game I have played except for 2 of them, I have been the last person on my team to get rank 1 ultimate. I get my ultimate after the support and I'm not even that far behind and I don't give up any crabs. I don't get heavily counter-jungled. The only times I would hit level 6 before our support was when I would hard farm and refuse to gank anyone before I got level 6. What Riot didn't realize is that the entire reason junglers were the first people to hit level 3 first was because leashing is commonplace. Rather than take away experience from the jungle, they should have punished junglers asking for a leash or the laner's deciding to leash the jungler. That way it becomes a decision: do you want to lose out on a possible level advantage against your lane opponents to get your jungler ahead early to influence other lanes (or your lane), OR do you not leash, and get a possible lead yourself and get ahead of your lane opponents, but then your jungler will be less of a factor in the early game?

BlåbæretMay 30, 201811 votes

I've stopped playing jungle. Ain't no point no more.

SpencerMay 30, 20184 votes

I'm giving it more of a shot, but I think it is undeniably less interesting and less fun (perhaps the most damning criticism we can level at it).

º Kindred ºMay 30, 201810 votes

Now imagine playing kindred in this meta. Literally tells you where and when you are at scuttle so you can enjoy the tripple gangbang at river while your team spam pings you and tells you to stop feed :^)

QuirynnMay 30, 20181 votes

*enjoy the tripple gangbang at river while your team spearm pings you

SirLapseMay 31, 20181 votes

Machete nerf actually is what affects Kindred more since the attack speed when fighting monsters matters. I actually think things would be fine in this meta were it actually safe to play risk/reward champions and play the risk part of it instead of get shafted automatically with no reward unless you get lucky with teammates.

But pathing isn't that great either and Kindred's slower jungling just makes pathing worse. Many other junglers got thrown into this position so Kindred is not alone.

Duke DryfockerMay 30, 20188 votes

It's almost as if they want people to return to playing two top lane...[sg-lux-2]

Murl0ughMay 31, 20181 votes

I thought so too until they patched out the ability to use a support item and a jungle item.

So now if one player tries to go "new meta" they will hinder their toplaner (because no support item meaning they have to take cs) and the opposing jungler gets free reign on the entire jungle.

SirPurrrMay 30, 20187 votes

Riot logic:

jg is basically a support in competitive and no OP at all

BUT

our 4 laners are crying about jg since they don't think about pathing or watch the map either. top still died to 2:45 ganks after seeing the enemy jg start bot. it's super predictable and happens nearly every game successfully anyway. players are so used to Riot holding their hands that instead of adapting and learning, their first reaction is to whine.

THUS, Riot thinks, damn ranked integrity and fairness, let's ruin jg so that we make 80% of our player base happier at the cost of 20% that we throw under the bus. ;D I'm exaggerating but basically the whining will be 4-1 against jg every season no matter what state the role is in.

BIFFMay 31, 20182 votes

I dont even think it made 80% happier. I get it the 2:45 gank was a bit annoying but admittedly it was predictable. ward at 2:30. I feel like your jungle going 0-5 trying to get a crab just to stay relevant OR if that jungle takes his lead and camps a lane pretty sure those scenarios are more infuriating.

Neptunia xoxoMay 30, 20185 votes

Jungle needed less early game presence but the way they did it barely changed this and now made it more focused on jungle actually getting scuttle and forcing them to have to gank or be put behind.

Malix FarwinMay 30, 20184 votes

Welcome to League where the nerfed Mages and Buffed Assassins and are surprised that you see Assassins mid 90% of the time.

Daddy AntsMay 30, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d9sb23Ts,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-30T14:14:24.457+0000)

Welcome to League where the nerfed Mages and Buffed Assassins and are surprised that you see Assassins mid 90% of the time.

Yet a lot of mages still hold very respectable win rates and play rates.

ŚhunpoMay 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d9sb23Ts,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-30T14:14:24.457+0000)

Welcome to League where the nerfed Mages and Buffed Assassins and are surprised that you see Assassins mid 90% of the time.

Sorry to burst your bubble but mages are still THE best class for mid lane.

xSightlessxMay 30, 20183 votes

I kinda gotta agree, these changes pushed me away from playing jungle and more of playing graves mid, which as of tomorrow will be dead due to not enough crit chance. Rip item 3508 your glory and versatility will be missed.

Risen29May 30, 20183 votes

I had a 75% winrate with shyvana before the patch. Dropped down to 50% afterwards, trying as hard as I could to not go below that. Every game is a coin flip because, no matter how well you do, you have little to no impact on the laning phase, and you're always playing catchup.

I have shelved the jungle as a role entirely and gone back to top or mid lane as a way of impacting the game and carrying. I am not interested in playing russian crab roulette with hyper early junglers like Xin, Graves, Udyr, etc. I prefer scaling and tank junglers but they are useless now.

The experience changes would have been one way to make jungler low impact during the lane phase. But adding the scuttle on top of it was just assinine - that just made it so only a narrow amount of jungles are now viable, and they can still gank early if they win the scuttle race. So nothing was accomplished.

If they really want to slow down level 3 all they had to do was remove the pre-game time that allows for leashing, or change jungle spawns to be later so no one will want to leash.

WoodakoodashoodaMay 30, 20183 votes

Low elo players don't get that luxury. Imagine getting a filled jungle at silver or bronze or someone who thinks they can, but then they suck at it because they've not played in a while. Or they have played, but they have not adapted to the new jungle.

As much as the new jungle sucks, Players who are new at the new jungle suck even more.

I don't get to choose.

If I want any freaking chance of winning I feel I have to be the one to do the job at my shit mmr.

Risen29May 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d9sb23Ts,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-05-30T21:55:16.898+0000)

Low elo players don't get that luxury. Imagine getting a filled jungle at silver or bronze or someone who thinks they can, but then they suck at it because they've not played in a while. Or they have played, but they have not adapted to the new jungle.

As much as the new jungle sucks, Players who are new at the new jungle suck even more.

I don't get to choose.

If I want any freaking chance of winning I feel I have to be the one to do the job at my shit mmr.

Jungle has so little impact on the game right now at low elo that I don't even care what my jungle is doing most of the time. I'll just split push from top and try to avoid getting ganked. Or I'll go mid and try to snowball with roams, doing the job the jungle can't.

The opposite can be true at high elo, where jungle has even more impact on the course of the game. But not in a positive sense of who was better at ganking, but in a negative sense of who lost the least crabs. That's why we have this insanity of laners babysitting their junglers, out of a sense of self preservation, because they know if they let their jungler lose the crabs they will be useless and the enemy jungler will run away with the map uncontested.

At low elo, early advantages rarely mean anything. They throw leads away and don't leverage their advantages when they have them.

BIFFMay 31, 20182 votes

THIS IS THE TRUEST COMMENT ON THE STATE OF THE JUNGLE RIGHT NOW!

Riot's goal was to eliminate the jungles impact as a deciding factor for other players and instead they made jungle a deciding factor for the game. Either your jungle is hyper fed and hard carrying or they are so far behind its a 4v5. Best hope is they afk so you have a chance to come back.

Risen29May 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

THIS IS THE TRUEST COMMENT ON THE STATE OF THE JUNGLE RIGHT NOW!

Riot's goal was to eliminate the jungles impact as a deciding factor for other players and instead they made jungle a deciding factor for the game. Either your jungle is hyper fed and hard carrying or they are so far behind its a 4v5. Best hope is they afk so you have a chance to come back.

Yes, the irony is overwhelming.

If they had just stopped at the experience reduction they would have been good and could have called it a day. All junglers would still be viable, but all junglers would be slowed down in their ability to influence lanes. I still wouldn't play jungle, because I need a position that can actually carry the game, but at least people who don't mind playing a low impact position can still jungle decently.

The scuttle is what has screwed up the entire game by making only select junglers viable and then making the jungler influence incredibly lopsided during the laning phase, rather than being toned down overall in the laning phase. It's the scuttle that has forced entire teams to fight over it as a way to ensuring their jungler doesn't get so far behind that their entire team gets screwed.

iJGMay 30, 20183 votes

The jungle changes do suck. This makes taxing lanes more crucial. But by doing so you are also gimping your laners by taking xp and gold from them.

opaoppaiMay 31, 20183 votes

DUDE fk all the changes. I haven't felt this bad since S5. [sg-janna]

SalsonMay 30, 20182 votes

I don't like farming at a snail's pace, I don't like engaging in a death match over a crab,** I don't like being expected to gank a solo lane that is 2-3 levels above me.**

So don't. We don't need you. We don't like you. Go hang around bot lane and leave us alone.

JustMonika13May 30, 20186 votes

{quoted}

So don't. We don't need you. We don't like you. Go hang around bot lane and leave us alone.

You are one thing.

The rest of the idiots crying for ganks are another. Bonus points if they also jeered for the jungle changes that got us to this point.

BestPudgeNAMay 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

So don't. We don't need you. We don't like you. Go hang around bot lane and leave us alone.

Really 90% of the time my laners lose they blame me and yell at me for not ganking. When i tell them i can't gank because of how they manage the wave and that i'm 2 levels and 600 gold down due to the fact they lost lane which caused me to lose crabs 2-5. The tell me they're muting me and i'm toxic.

BIFFMay 31, 20183 votes

This. SO MUCH OF THIS! everyone complains about the jungler having to much impact but when they play like trash its the junglers fault. This patch just exacerbates this mentality while also making the jungling role a huge liability.

BigFBearMay 30, 20182 votes

^ What OP says!

Since i am jungle otp that cant and dont want to play lane i think i will quit League at all. After 8 Seasons this is the most frustrating for Junglers.

Dr Rick ReportMay 30, 20182 votes

Don't worry, soon they'll finish reworking all roles in the game and the entire playerbase will go away, I'm 100% sure another company (hopefully one with a better balance team) will make a better MOBA than what we have left from League today.

Unstoppable MonkMay 30, 20181 votes

What's funny is the junglers are inting and flaming me when I run mid smite to help good jg because all the good junglers have abandoned jungling for some reason

IkBenShteenMay 30, 20184 votes

I used to otp Udyr jungle before the changes. Buff wolves Buff go for invade. Now it's just a cheese fest where there is no strategy. You'll end up meeting the enemy jungler based on force, not on timing. You cannot have fun in the jungle anymore. Also not to mention this nerf is indirect towards udyr because he levels and gains less mana costs on his skills, guess that's slow af now. I played 2-3 games before I gave up. It's a fuckshow. Imagine riot deciding to nerf your minion exp but allow a crab to spawn in any lane, any side, just for the memes.

Unstoppable MonkMay 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I used to otp Udyr jungle before the changes. Buff wolves Buff go for invade. Now it's just a cheese fest where there is no strategy. You'll end up meeting the enemy jungler based on force, not on timing. You cannot have fun in the jungle anymore. Also not to mention this nerf is indirect towards udyr because he levels and gains less mana costs on his skills, guess that's slow af now. I played 2-3 games before I gave up. It's a fuckshow. Imagine riot deciding to nerf your minion exp but allow a crab to spawn in any lane, any side, just for the memes.

scuttler crab spawning in the middle of the base near nexus season 9

BigFBearMay 30, 20182 votes

Udyr is one of the best Junglers for this Patch ans scuttle contest, lmao

BIFFMay 31, 20181 votes

Yeah but its a cheese-fest.

IkBenShteenMay 31, 20181 votes

Udyr being one of the best junglers should supposedly make me happy about these unnecesarry changes?

People don't know what they want dude. Everyone complains all the time. Jungle is supposedly never balanced according to laners. Either they pressure lanes too hard, or too soft. People need to stop whining. You could literally time ganks on toplane so easily just because it was so blatant that a lvl 3 ww or udyr might pop up around 3.30-4. If you push like a moron and get caught and then go : 'muh jungler too much in lane'.. Like seriously junglers are not fucking bots running around dragon and baron. They are there to take some pain of your laning phase, and counter the counterpicks enemies made into your champ.

I however understand what the issue is, ever since they took our ability to buy wards it has been a pain, but still.. It was so obvious..

My issue is the RNG is getting so high, and jungle got hit quite hard making it really unfun to jungle. Thank god I also like to support else I wouldn't be playing anymore.

Coming mid when you are lvl 4, and enemy zed or lb is level 6 is legit suicide, there's no point in even trying that. You rather wait till your mid dies then go and tax lane to level up. They nerf jungle exp, but keep the same timers, sad as hell man. I don't know why junglers are supposedly forced to be behind their whole team. There's legit no reason for this.

BobaFlautistMay 30, 20181 votes

Once a season every season.

iJGMay 30, 20181 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Z0bMBd2j-discussion-suggested-jungle-changes

Check out my thread and tell me what you think.

SpecterVonBarenMay 31, 20181 votes

Yes yes, I'm sure more hostile threads like these will work despite the previous 100 not working.

Leto GTMay 31, 20181 votes

I stoped playing jungle which was my main role since s2. I'm playing mid mostly now or adc now. There's no reason to play jungle anymore. They may have a powerskipe at lvl2 but then they get useless before they can catch up the level disadvantage they have. Most junglers I see are lvl4 when I'm lvl6, it's really sad.

DBS RonovonMay 31, 20181 votes

Solution: quit league.

I did, it felt great.

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