Muramana takes like 20-30 minutes to stack

xxxMadLionxxx·Jul 27, 2017·44 votes·4,424 views

Am i the only person who thinks this is way to long to get the item?

52 Comments

LauchmelderJul 27, 20175 votes

Well you stack Tear and only upgrade it to Seraphs/Manamune once it's fully stacked.

You also don't buy tear on champions who can't reliably stack it with.

Need Gold 4 TentJul 27, 201710 votes

AA staff better leave it as tear, but manamune gives charges on autoattacks, which theoretically makes it way faster since every champ will use autoattacks even if just to last hit minions.

LauchmelderJul 27, 20174 votes

The main problem here is that rushing a Manamune is leaving you in a weird spot simply because you could build an item that does more damage or has a greater passive.

I only ever see Manamune on Ezreal and Varus, and those guys are meant to poke with their abilities.

Tear items are for mana sustain after all, rushing the full item leaves you weaker.

YumaS2AstralJul 27, 20171 votes

Manamune used to be a core item for old Yorick, old Urgot, and Jayce. Now the first two have been reworked and the latter had its mana costs reduced significantly.

MLDzXnRRRJul 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Manamune used to be a core item for old Yorick, old Urgot, and Jayce. Now the first two have been reworked and the latter had its mana costs reduced significantly.

They reduced one of his mana costs to 40 from 40 to 90, then made it 55. Realistically you can't spam with him, but buying tear is probably a waste, because the games are over in 15-20 or 25 minutes. If the games were 35-40 minutes (season 4), I would still buy tear on him.

YumaS2AstralJul 28, 20171 votes

Jayce's early game damage is just so potent when he directly buys lethality items. It is too good to pass up, so I think most players would still skip Tear unless they were sure they could not be able to dominate early.

MLDzXnRRRJul 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Jayce's early game damage is just so potent when he directly buys lethality items. It is too good to pass up, so I think most players would still skip Tear unless they were sure they could not be able to dominate early.

Dominant? He has like no dmg before lvl 4-5 and his base ad is pathetic, so CSing is a nightmare without AD runes which means that you cant run lethality in runes. You can win lane only if you poke and the other laner doesnt return any dmg.

My Waifu VanillaJul 27, 20173 votes

Varus can't even use Manamune effectively anymore since he stacks it so slow with the nerfed Q. Before you would at least stack it at a decent rate by just spamming Q on the minion wave, but with the MUCH longer CD now for not proccing blight stacks on champions you will NEVER finish Muramana before like 35 minutes.

Pierce The VealJul 27, 201713 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yi Shenpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d6ZLZFZ5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-27T10:56:34.442+0000)

AA staff better leave it as tear, but manamune gives charges on autoattacks, which theoretically makes it way faster since every champ will use autoattacks even if just to last hit minions.

That's not technically true.

AA staff actually gains mana TWICE as fast. Gaining 8 mana per cast as opposed to 4. The max amount of mana gained per cooldown is hence 16.

On the other hand, muramana lets you gain mana by auto attacking, but the mana gained per auto/ability remains the same, hence the fastest stack speed is 8 mana per cooldown, and thus the fastest possible stacktime of muramana is twice that of seraph's.

Need Gold 4 TentJul 27, 20171 votes

Well, I stand corrected. However, I still think overall it is "easier" to stack a manamune than an AA staff, because unless you are wasting spells, you will never have a "perfect" charging. You naturally autoattack (and use spells when needed), which makes manamune more likely to be closer to its theoretical "perfect" charge than AA staff, unless you are throwing spells at blank air. Which is why there are champs I suppose, who make use of AA staff better than others, while everyone can use manamune if they wished, even if they were unsuited for AA staff with regards to charging speed.

EschetonJul 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yi Shenpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d6ZLZFZ5,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-27T17:27:42.003+0000)

Well, I stand corrected. However, I still think overall it is "easier" to stack a manamune than an AA staff, because unless you are wasting spells, you will never have a "perfect" charging. You naturally autoattack (and use spells when needed), which makes manamune more likely to be closer to its theoretical "perfect" charge than AA staff, unless you are throwing spells at blank air. Which is why there are champs I suppose, who make use of AA staff better than others, while everyone can use manamune if they wished, even if they were unsuited for AA staff with regards to charging speed.

Singed

Need Gold 4 TentJul 28, 20171 votes

Which makes Singed one of the good AA staff users which I did talk mention. However what I meant was even champs like Yi can buy a Manamune if he wanted to (not questioning the viability of the item but just the charge speed) and stack it decently but if you put AA staff on him, you will notice it to be significantly slower to stack.

TL:DR - All champs can charge manamune decently, only a few can charge a Tear/AA staff as effectively.

Pierce The VealJul 28, 20171 votes

Then again, there needs to be something TO auto attack to stack with muramana. Hence, though perhaps percentage wise manamune stacks more efficiently, in sheer time archangels will always win. The minimum stack time of archangels was 6.26 minutes, which puts muramana at 12.52 minutes. Reallistically you'll have an seraph's embrace at 15 minutes at the latest unless you delay buying it (as many do— even though it slows down stack speed). A muramana is practically IMPOSSIBLE to have by 15 minutes. A reallistic "get" time for muramana is between 25-35 minutes, whereas acrhangels could be gotten as early as 10 minutes (but I didn't mention that because most hold onto tear and get it between 15-25 minutes).

Need Gold 4 TentJul 28, 20171 votes

I did notice that it was still strangely slower than I expected, because I was trying out old spamwick with item 3025 item 3004 . AFK farming top lane nearly all game but I recall not even finishing the damn thing by the time the game ended despite finishing it right after gauntlet. I think it was a ~30 minute game.

Pierce The VealJul 28, 20171 votes

Yeah it's not likely to be stacked fast, especially if you delay actually buying the muramana.

Sraeg2013Jul 27, 20175 votes

You can stack Archangel from 0 to Seraph's in 6 minutes 15 seconds.

"Perfect" stacking of Manamune aka the lowest possible time is about 11 minutes.

korg023Jul 28, 20171 votes

You stack way faster when you have Manamune due to stacking with auto attacks too.

CatastropJul 27, 20174 votes

I'm 90% sure this is entirely because of Ezreal. If they buffed the stack time, he'd go nuts with how fast he already stacks it currently. I see Ez's stack this thing in like 8-10 minutes(a rough estimate, don't kill me if it's off), I honestly don't want to see him stack it any faster because he gets so damage out of this thing alone, it's ridiculous.

Cosmic WarperJul 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I'm 90% sure this is entirely because of Ezreal. If they buffed the stack time, he'd go nuts with how fast he already stacks it currently. I see Ez's stack this thing in like 8-10 minutes(a rough estimate, don't kill me if it's off), I honestly don't want to see him stack it any faster because he gets so damage out of this thing alone, it's ridiculous.

Ezreal will almost never get muramana by 20 minutes lol

PhDs NutsJul 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d6ZLZFZ5,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-07-27T15:02:58.952+0000)

Ezreal will almost never get muramana by 20 minutes lol

If he buys tear early, he can easily stack it by 20 minutes. 20 minutes is literally my goal stack time when I play Ezreal.

CatastropJul 27, 20173 votes

If he gets Muramana any later, then he probably lost the lane in the early game, 20 minutes is like the sweet spot to get finish your stacking items.

Sraeg2013Jul 27, 20171 votes

It is for Archangel's which can be stacked from zero to full in 6 minutes 15 seconds.

Definitely not for Manamune (as you probably learned from my other comment).

SH AzykanJul 28, 20172 votes

20 minutes is the goal for any ez who builds a manamune to have it fully stacked. 19-23 minutes is the general time you can expect him to have it done (any later and his mid game spike is too far behind)

Sraeg2013Jul 27, 20172 votes

11 minutes is the absolute minimum.

12 minutes 34 seconds if he's sitting on the Tear.

CatastropJul 27, 20171 votes

Yikes, was way off on my estimate. Thanks for clarifying that for me though.

Jackom1Jul 27, 20174 votes

I guess that's part of the issue none buys it anymore. Ez kinda needs it but not really, varus and jayce have better options; yorick and urgot no longer need it. But I don't think that making the item faster to get will make it any better, it should be reworked to better fit ad champs who like to poke a lot. And that means more than just ez, jayce and varus.

korg023Jul 28, 20171 votes

Yeah it just takes too long, Riot needs to rework it or make differently designed item, that mechanic of forever stacking to get mana is so 2009.

Erractic EickJul 28, 20171 votes

Honestly, it's still a staple on top lane Blitz and some other off meta picks, but they're so rare no one notices...

SH AzykanJul 28, 20171 votes

dont even need it on top blitz anymore item 3025 item 3001 item 3800 item 3193 item 3742 item 3047 is basically what you are likely to end up with late game early catalyst + sheen or glacial gives plenty of mana in lane and you get to powerspike sooner. manamune takes too long to scale on him, would be better off just going iceborn+titanic if you need to be a damage threat

Erractic EickJul 28, 20171 votes

Interesting, I have to try that sometime. I mainly try the Splitzcrank route, and build tear into either TF or IBG to help take towers faster.

YumaS2AstralJul 28, 20172 votes

I like to buy it when I go with lane Kha. Then I max W. With Tear I can spam it and sustain. Late game I can proc Muramana twice with a single auto with his passive. This allows me to delete squishies, many times even when they are not isolated.

If Kha's cooldowns were lower or at least Muramana was faster to stack, I would play him everytime.

Colgate GatorJul 27, 20172 votes

Considering you only buy a tear by the early game to deal with the stacking while you continue with the game, no. If you're rushing Muramana itself then that's on you.

Also, 30 minutes, really? If you get a charge every 4 seconds you get the full stack within 11-12 minutes, and you usually get that item on Champs who spam spells (which is kind of the reason they get that item).

Kitty ClarissaJul 27, 20172 votes

Depends since champs who has spamable abilities can stack it faster. Ezreal is prob the only AD champ nowadays who builds it since Jayce builds leathility now.
APs like Cassiopeia Ryze Sona (yes) who are not the greatest early game but scale well lategame can stack it fast outside sona who has to hit at least level 11 for her stacking speed to increase faster .

BârdJul 28, 20172 votes

Ever seen a Syndra with item 3042 ?

SH AzykanJul 28, 20171 votes

before they changed the onhit from manamune from magic to physical damage, yes because of how it worked with her ult was nasty :P

Sad TyrantJul 28, 20171 votes

you mean for each ball in her ult, it did the extra damage?

you serious?

SH AzykanJul 28, 20171 votes

yeah each sphere of her ult counted as a separate instance of single target damage, so each one would do muramana's damage as well

Sire HippingtonJul 27, 20171 votes

dunno, the staking time is what bothers me the least about it. It's more that it requires spamming singletarget stuff to use the effect when most mana needing AD's have aoe aswell as the fact that the item you get to help with mana eats through your manapool like nothing and even looses damage in the process. That effect just goes against the very reason of getting a tear item. If you go for mana, you want to be sustained so you stay effective in prolonged fights/standoffs, yet that effect drains you mana like carzy and is less and less potent the longer a fight goes.

PePsiLemoNNJul 27, 20171 votes

Yes

Hyrum GraffJul 27, 20171 votes

I sometimes build reaver instead of tear on Ez.

item 3508 item 3031 item 3078 item 3072 item 3036 and boots item 3006 item 3111 item 3047

40% cdr, 40% crit, bunch of AD, reasonable attack speed (can go bork too), infinite mana.

Makes mana management in lane a bit rougher, but you also don't have to drop 700 gold on an item with no combat stats.

jama655Jul 27, 20171 votes

u wont have to worry about muramana for long riots fazing out.

hi hi its zy zyJul 27, 20171 votes

it wouldn't have to be so slow if ezreal's q wasn't in the game but ^_^

I Main SwainJul 28, 20171 votes

imo the meta is the problem, games are always over in 15-25 minutes between rift herald, the crappy defenses of towers, and all the turret damaging love riot has given to champions (freaking tristana and ziggs)

HenzoAFJul 28, 20171 votes

You can stack it in only 12:30 if you do it right

RalanrJul 28, 20171 votes

Honestly I think muramana is just a bad item that's only built on the core builds of champions that need reworks because Riot had to nerf their mana pool hard to stop them from being obnoxious.

Project omenJul 28, 20171 votes

No, you're not. By the time you stack it, the game will either be over or not last much longer.

One Ashe OnJul 28, 20171 votes

It take a while yes, and personally other than Ezreal , i never see this item and i find it could be good on some champion if it wasn't lowering their damage output.

BatchBustsMetaJul 28, 20171 votes

It's just kind of a weird item to gate champion powerspikes. I don't like it, because it makes it so every mana hungry\mana scaling champion is super gated in their build paths.