Syndra change to Passive Q is a huge nerf.

Nausicäa ·Apr 19, 2016·17 votes·1,844 views

Is there some additional context here because her passive now increases the duration of spheres rather than giving her a 15% dmg bonus to Q. This is a pretty big nerf to whats basically her primary spell.

34 Comments

Deep Terror NamiApr 19, 20165 votes

It adds power/utility to the rest of her abilities since they rely on the orbs being out.

Penguin EclipseApr 19, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=czZtvJ3K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-19T23:46:12.821+0000)

It adds power/utility to the rest of her abilities since they rely on the orbs being out.

Not really. They are out plenty long as is and her Ult is hard limited to 7. Her damage is far more important than a little extra time.

Deep Terror NamiApr 19, 20164 votes

Whether 15% less damage is worth it or not is debatable, but not what I'm saying.

It's a statement of fact; having more orbs out longer buffs all her other abilities.

Nausicäa Apr 19, 20162 votes

Its actually not a fact, because as i stated this doesnt buff her other abilities, only her ultimate.

Nausicäa Apr 20, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=czZtvJ3K,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-19T23:52:54.124+0000)

Whether 15% less damage is worth it or not is debatable, but not what I'm saying.

It's a statement of fact; having more orbs out longer buffs all her other abilities.

Support main, doesnt even play Syndra. Keep downvoting people who dont agree with your clearly false statements.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20164 votes

You let me know when W and E are equal or more effective with fewer or zero orbs out :3 Your attempts at insulting people for not playing Syndra give no credence to your argument.

AkumuApr 20, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=czZtvJ3K,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-20T00:01:42.065+0000)

You let me know when W and E are equal or more effective with fewer or zero orbs out :3 Your attempts at insulting people for not playing Syndra give no credence to your argument.

Please explain to me how W is more effective with more spheres out? The damage doesnt increase, the aoe doesnt increase, the slow doesnt increase. So basically the additional sphere does????? Nothing?

Please explain to me how more spheres makes E better? People who play Syndra are already proficient at landing her stun, and you only need 1 single orb to do that. You can only properly aim one sphere, any more added to that is just a sphere going in a random direction you cant control. Cool? So ya nothing.

Now that we have established how W and E do not have their power increased in any noticeable way, Syndra got a flat 15% damage her on her primary damage spell. These shitty passive changes do nothing to compensate for that.

If you dont play the champion at all guess what? You probably dont have a fucking clue what you're talking about so why are you posting here again?

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20164 votes

The longer the orbs are out the more opportunity you have to use them. Max W update allows you to grab 2 orbs. More orbs for E means larger area to hit. Longer orb duration means R more frequently has a larger amount of them.

Also, they increased Q's base ratio. The 15% loss is not as harsh as it sounds because it's not the only thing to consider.

LankPantsApr 20, 20164 votes

Old Syndra Q was 264.5+0.69AP, new is 230+0.7, you need about 3.5K ability power for that to even out. It's a damage nerf, and a fairly large one at that.

The thing here is, Syndra is a champion who's desperately in need of buffs, she's terrible right now. The fact that we can sit here and debate whether these are buffs or nerfs means that Riot fucked up, because Syndra needs straight buffs.

Also you don't even play Syndra, why are you claiming to know how she works better than people who do. This change is a nerf, it's a small nerf but it's still a nerf. Syndra should not be getting nerfed right now.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20162 votes

You guys seem to be confusing what I've said with claiming she is buffed over this. I made it very clear at the start that whether or not the change is a net buff is debatable.

More orbs = better utility for her other abilities. That's it.

LankPantsApr 20, 20164 votes

Most Syndra's play around single orbs 90% of the time. You don't need 8 orbs, most of the time when you have an absurd number of orbs you're not actually using them. Syndra's E has two main use cases, single orb and many orbs. Many orbs can only really happen after her ult since it drops the orbs into a position to create an un-dodgable stun. Her new W doesn't do this. It clusters the spheres too tightly and you wind up with a stun ~the width of her old E. This is only after you set up for 10 seconds.

You might see a lot of value here but if you actually played Syndra you'd realise that extra spheres really don't give huge amounts of value. Having 8 spheres is never going to be better than 7, you don't gain ult damage for it and you're never going to gain anything from the extra sphere.

You might see utility buffs here, but they are minor at best. Having actually played her on the PBE she feels terrible. She just feels clunker than before with her new W (because she needed that) and really doesn't do enough damage with anything bar her ult.

The Great DivideApr 20, 20161 votes

As a fellow Syndra main, and reading all of your posts in your tireless vendetta to fight against these nerfs: PREACH!

LankPantsApr 20, 20163 votes

Whether 15% less damage is worth it or not is debatable

It's really not. It's actually about 7-10% due to the AP ratio buff, but even at that it's far more valuable. You know how Syndra's damage spikes really hard at level 9 and it's a major point of power for the champion? Ever wondered what causes that? I'll tell you it's not the 45 damage that you get for skilling the ability, or the sphere duration, in fact that's relatively unimportant.

Spheres past 1 really don't help her E or W. It doesn't matter if you get hit by one sphere or 5000 from her E, it still deals the same damage and stuns the same. More spheres don't benefit her E at all, they just make it easier to hit. Her W literally has no benefit from spheres, it deals the same damage and slows the same over the same area regardless of if you use more spheres. On the PBE it gets a small area buff, but it is really small, like tiny. Most of the area you gain is actually overlap, since the spheres seem to land ~50 units away from each other.

I'd recommend you try her on the PBE if you have access. These buffs are not relevant, the only truly relevant change was the loss of damage on Q. Everything else just makes her a little easier to play, which I, and most other Syndra players do not want.

Nausicäa Apr 19, 20164 votes

Except it doesnt? Syndra has no problems getting spheres for W or E. All this does is make it easier to get 6 or 7 sphere ultimates at the expense of massively reducing her DPS.

CrazedPorcupineApr 19, 20165 votes

Actually, it's a HUGE buff. At higher CDRs, she can now reliably have upwards of 8 spheres out (including the 3 she has circling her). This means her ult is now way more potent, she can have better stun waves, and all that. Overall it's a huge buff. EDIT: And by getting rid of the 15% more damage on it, they can now buff it's base damages at all ranks, and/or up teh AP ratio on it.

Penguin EclipseApr 19, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Actually, it's a HUGE buff. At higher CDRs, she can now reliably have upwards of 8 spheres out (including the 3 she has circling her). This means her ult is now way more potent, she can have better stun waves, and all that. Overall it's a huge buff. EDIT: And by getting rid of the 15% more damage on it, they can now buff it's base damages at all ranks, and/or up teh AP ratio on it.

Why would she need 8? Her ult is hard coded to 7 as we learned in URF. She can already do a stun wave. I don't see the gain here. She is supposed to be a burst mage.

CrazedPorcupineApr 19, 20163 votes

that hard coding was increased with the duration increases.

Penguin EclipseApr 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

that hard coding was increased with the duration increases.

Do you know that for a fact or are you assuming?

AbyssphereApr 20, 20165 votes

{quoted}

that hard coding was increased with the duration increases.

The ult tooltip itself now says that its max is 7. The buff is that she'll get 7 ball ults more reliably, that's it.

The Great DivideApr 20, 20162 votes

Which is sad because all this nerfing, just to make her skill ceiling lower... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Nausicäa Apr 19, 20163 votes

You're assuming that they will buff her base damages..which is why im asking for additional context..........

Nausicäa Apr 19, 20162 votes

Gold player who doesnt even play Syndra. Ok.

LankPantsApr 19, 20165 votes

There's no context. Just tried it out on the PBE, no Q damage buffs at all. Her damage got directly nerfed, her W can't deal damage twice so there's no way to deal more damage with new Syndra. I don't understand why Riot is nerfing Syndra.

Nausicäa Apr 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

There's no context. Just tried it out on the PBE, no Q damage buffs at all. Her damage got directly nerfed, her W can't deal damage twice so there's no way to deal more damage with new Syndra. I don't understand why Riot is nerfing Syndra.

Lovely...... these passive changes are utter shit.

The Great DivideApr 19, 20162 votes

I was thinking this too. Like yeah, eventually more balls being up is good, but it really only benefits her ult (and late game, the amount of balls needed to instagib the squishy almost becomes a moot point, considering you landed a Q on them first). It could benefit her e, but that's only if the teamfight stays in one area for awhile.

However, taking off the 15% increased dmg hurts, because it's what made Syndra much more formidable of a threat. Sure she had the ult damage, but her constant high damage q's (which took skill to land effectively) was what rewarded Syndra players. This just pigeonholes more of her playstyle to sit back and spam q till ult is at peak then press r.

I'll have to see, but I'm not liking it so far (what was so wrong about the true damage 15% they introduced before?)

LoquaciousKumqatApr 20, 20162 votes

Her ratios are also increased to 0.7 from 0.6 on Q, so it is a buff.

LankPantsApr 20, 20161 votes

Her old ratio on Q was 0.69, since it got multiplied by her Q passive. Her Q had 34.5 more base damage. Old Q's better until 3450 AP.

3rd AgeApr 20, 20162 votes

ap ratio up

not a nerf

WhaleSmashApr 20, 20161 votes

For now, it's definitely looking like a nerf, though it does open the possibility for easier balancing in the future since there is no more 15% hard multiplier. I'm a little bit more miffed about how her passive is still effectively useless until level 9 or whatever it was. It would have been nice if she slowly got additional benefits form her passive as she leveled up her abilities rather than only getting them when they were max rank.

AbyssphereApr 20, 20161 votes

The AP ratio on Q has been increased to 70% at all ranks. Compared to rank 5 Q on live it's a nerf to damage against champions but it's better at every rank before that and is better as waveclear, too. On top of that, it means you get high ult numbers more often and you'll have an easier time keeping up spheres for W and E too.

Consider the buff to her W (larger AOE late, may be capable of damaging enemies twice) too and you really can't look at this change as a nerf. It's a power shift at worst, and could en up being a great buff.

LankPantsApr 20, 20165 votes