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"Don't blame me because you're losing lane." - Jungler

Radiant Wukong··5 votes·1,928 views

I have a problem with junglers who don't feel "obligated" (their favorite word of choice) to gank top lane after the top laner leashes for them. It's a sacrifice to start a level behind in top lane.

As a top laner, I'm not obligated to leash! A good jungler with AS runes, feast, savagery, secret stash or runic affinity, recovery or unyielding, and tough skin can absolutely jungle without a leash.

Also, there's nothing wrong with starting at wolves/raptors, getting level 2, then getting river rift before going back to red/blue buff.

So yes, I fully expect a level 2 gank if I leash for you.

As a matter of fact, when I get a leash from top lane, I gank at 2.

And when I'm top lane and I see my opponent coming from a leash, I drop back and play safely, fully expecting the jungler to come gank me.

EDIT/UPDATE: A piece of missing information, I always leash the red buff.

2nd Update: Somewhere along the lines you noobs made the assumption that I'd lose my lane beacuse I leash. No, I still win my lane (unless it's GP, I hate him). I'd just like to gain an early advantage.

36 Comments

EndlessSorcerer11 votes

So yes, I fully expect a level 2 gank if I leash for you.

As a matter of fact, when I get a leash from top lane, I gank at 2.

Ganking top-lane at level 2 is inviting the opposing jungler to steal your bottom-side buff and removes all pressure on bottom lane.

If you were against a competent jungler, you would be setting yourself rather far behind from the very start doing that.

While junglers don't need a leash, it is helpful. If you somehow miss experience when leashing, you stayed far too long.

Considering laners will blame you even if you snowball every lane aside from theirs or they died twice in a 1v1 before you finished your third camp. They will do so even if the enemy jungler has never been to their lane (because you keep killing them in their jungle).

No sympathy.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

You don't miss exp leashing unless you overstayed, really very few champions should even miss farm. If you did that is your choice. The jungler making a predictable level 2 gank isn't going to help you, in fact it will undo the good a leash did for them, as they will fall behind in jungle rapidly and get their camps stolen. some junglers don't even have the ability to gank until level 3 minimum.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Give me 1 example of one of these junglers who can't gank until level 3. I don't know of one that exists, especially if we're the north team with red buff.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Shyvana Graves Nocturne Olaf Skarner Udyr Trundle Volibear Warwick All have piss poor level2 ganks against competent laners. And every SINGLE jungler will lose the other half of their jungle while they waste time most likely failing a gank, and the enemy jungler farms up and becomes a monster, contests their jungle and forces them to back or kill them.

Radiant Wukong2 votes

Are you serious! Maybe you're taking the wrong abilities then because those are all extremely strong level 2 gankers, especially with red buff!

Every single one of them forces a flash or guarantees a kill.

The thing you're probably too simple minded to understand is when you know you're going to level 2 gank, you take different abilities you genius, you. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Shyvana... lvl2 gank "Let me slowly walk at you! Rawr I am threatening!" enemy backs away. "Oh well, back to the jungle I am behind on now."

lol

Radiant Wukong1 votes

No, you come from behind them and Shyvana should have WE, with red buff, anything short of a summoner 4 or summoner 3 should guarantee the kill.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Sure buddy. I only have a 63% win ratio on Shyvana in ranked last season and 69.5% in normals. BEFORE she was reworked and buffed. But what would I know.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Wut.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Honestly, I will gank at level 2 with Shyvana fairly regularly if I start Red Buff.

My general path is Red Buff -> Krugs -> Scuttle Crab -> Raptors, so I will gank nearby lanes if I see an opportunity (i.e. enemy has pushed for a level advantage) while walking between camps.

While Shyvana might not have the best ganks, I've managed to burn many summoner spells (and get early kills) because people weren't expecting it.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

If it is a hyper aggressive laner anybody can gank. But Shyvana is the worst candidate for an early gank otherwise.

Dolasaur1 votes

You also included Warwick in your list the OP approved of. If you take E level 2 and enemy laner is somehow already below 50%, I guess he could be better than Shyv ;)

(Unless by "candidate" you were including opportunity cost, in which case I'll stay quiet.)

rtbf2216514121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=czUH3rYh,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-12-31T00:40:13.961+0000)

Shyvana Graves Nocturne Olaf Skarner Udyr Trundle Volibear Warwick All have piss poor level2 ganks against competent laners. And every SINGLE jungler will lose the other half of their jungle while they waste time most likely failing a gank, and the enemy jungler farms up and becomes a monster, contests their jungle and forces them to back or kill them.

I disagree with trundle and maybe volibear... And Udyr.

RogueWill3 votes

Warwick Diana Trundle to name a few.

Just aa, do your ability and aa again, take 1 single aa fromt he camp if possible/needed and you will be back in lane before the first melee dies (if you are on blue side)

If you are on red side, you can do the same and hit the blast plant on your way out, or just aa and make sure to take one hit from the camp and then get out.

Depending on the jungler he can decide if he wants to late simte that camp or risk the invade and smite the second camp. Either way you arrive on lane before you have an exp disadvantage.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

OOOOOOOOH! I always hard leash lol No point in leashing if you aren't going to at least do 600.

RogueWill2 votes

Well not quite my friend. Junglers will usually have horrible clear speeds or they will have trouble sustaining on the first clear, if they have both they should always start on bot so the support can tank more hits for them. If you take agro from the camp you can actually prevent around 3 aa from the camp (you take one hit and the rest on your way out while the camp is chasing you before switching targets) if the clears are slow doing aa, ability, aa gives around 400-500 damage depending on the champion, he will have to eitehr hit a pot or smite to force the level 2 at that point most junglers will be able to clear the rest ot the camps without much issue.

Hard leash on the top side is really bad, specially since you only start like that on the following scenarios.

  1. You plan to invade
  2. You want to prevent an invade
  3. You are really blue dependent and can't clear without it
  4. Blue is useless to you (shyvana, rek sai)

up of all those 4 options, only option 4 a level 2 gank is favorable (to make use of the red buff) and arguably option 3.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

If you are on red side, you can do the same and hit the blast plant on your way out, or just aa and make sure to take one hit from the camp and then get out.

It might be a good idea to leave the Blast Plant.

If the jungler decides to steal the enemy Blue Buff after taking their red, it lets them get to the buff and kill it faster (reducing the risk of them being caught).

RogueWill1 votes

You are not saving that much timeas a jungler, but for the top laner woudl mean the melees minion dying and set them behind.

ScissorsNstuff3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Heir of Lito,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=czUH3rYh,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-31T00:14:25.569+0000)

I have a problem with junglers who don't feel "obligated" (their favorite word of choice) to gank top lane after the top laner leashes for them. It's a sacrifice to start a level behind in top lane.

a sacrifice you made on your own accord, did you even come to an agreement or did you assume that he would gank top no matter how stupid that option was?

As a top laner, I'm not obligated to leash!

Bullshit, as a toplaner you are obligated to get your ass in that jungle and make sure he doesn't get invaded without an extra pair of hands available, the only other thing you have to do is sit under your tower jerking off and pretending someone is gonna come steal it or something, quit bullshitting.

A good jungler with AS runes, feast, savagery, secret stash or runic affinity, recovery or unyielding, and tough skin can absolutely jungle without a leash.

bullshit by implication, it doesn't matter what the jungler "can" do, if you leash he does it faster, you get your ass in there and speed up the jungler if you want to invest in that, still doesn't mean you're getting ganks.

Don't like it? TOO FUCKING BAD WELCOME TO TOPLANE. Don't drop the soap

Also, there's nothing wrong with starting at wolves/raptors, getting level 2, then getting river rift before going back to red/blue buff.

Correct there is something odd about that, If you want to leash that its your problem though

So yes, I fully expect a level 2 gank if I leash for you.

fuck you

As a matter of fact, when I get a leash from top lane, I gank at 2.

that's your personal choice

And when I'm top lane and I see my opponent coming from a leash, I drop back and play safely, fully expecting the jungler to come gank me.

irrelevant bullshit

EDIT/UPDATE: A piece of missing information, I always leash the red buff.

doesn't matter.

You don't leash because of obligation you leash for practical reasons or you don't leash because you are a noob without any sense of practical use for a jungler that clears faster.

rtbf2216514122 votes

Unless you are mid lane, it's kinda hard to miss exp. Even then, you overstayed.

Dracocrash2 votes

Wow. you are deluded.

Marshbouy1 votes

You aren't obligated to leash a jungler. It is not their fault if you lose lane 1v1. That being said it is in both of your best interests to leash and gank because it makes the game easier for both parties.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Allow me to reiterate since you're all taking the "a level behind thing" out of context. The enemy laner will always hit level 2 first, you'll hit level 2 under your turret. The difference in power that a whole new ability brings is devastating depending on who you're laning against. Almost all the time, when you hit level 2, 3, 6 before your opponent, you dive them relentlessly until they catch up. With that level advantage, you can deny farm.

To prevent this from happening, your jungler can force a recall.

As for bottom lane being exposed, there should be a ward there that gives bot lane 1st kill if he's dumb enough to enter the jungle after laning has begun.

SithesisLord2 votes

Only if you let it happen. Four AAs is all the jungler is getting because in that time, the enemy's melee minions are around half health. I always get level 2 first or exactly when the enemy does. Never later.

Hard leashes are almost never necessary either. You´re losing XP because you stay too long.

Berserknurple1 votes

I don't know how you can possibly lose that much exp. top lane. At worst you'll be one creep behind. So they'll hit level 2 a whole second before you do. As a top lane player, stop being a whiny bitch. Jungler doesn't have to do shit for you if the opportunity doesn't arise. If you're so desperate for ganks, play a champ with CC and try to freeze lane. If you have a frozen lane and you're not behind your laner via deaths or a 20 cs difference, THEN you can complain about not getting ganks.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

99% of the time, when I call for a gank, it's because a low health enemy just flashed away from me and I need help to secure the kill. I also only ping for a gank if the jungler is in top jungle and in between camps, I keep a very close eye on my jungler. It also depends on who the jungler is, I'm not too keen on having a Kindred, Graves or Master Yi come gank under the turret.

The other 1% is if I half at least 40% of my max health being outpushed by a hard pusher. Like any item 3077 item 3068 champs because even though I have more CS, with more kills, I'm still losing my tower to cheesy item passives because he's pushing faster.

Berserknurple1 votes

If a low health enemy just flashed away, they're going to back. There's no chance to get a kill unless your jungler happened to be literally right next to their tower. If your lane isn't pushing into the tower it definitely isn't gonna happen. Just type "no f yasuo 11:00" or whatever, and I guarantee any competent jungler will come gank a lane without flash that you've already shown to be able to outtrade.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

I like how all the jungle mains came to my post down voting and crying.

Funny thing is, the only thing this post says is I'm not obligated to leash, even though all of you get butt hurt when you don't get a leash. Endless sorcerer clearly stated (before editing his comment), "The guy who didn't leash me died twice top, he deserved it, screw him, no sympathy."

So for you to feel so strongly about being leashed as a jungler, you should consider how I feel as a top laner you selfish pricks.

Dynikus3 votes

There's no downfall to leashing unless you're doing it wrong. I'm not a jungle main by any stretch, I generally play mid/top. You don't lose out on xp by leashing, and expecting a level 2 gank is just going to screw your jungler over if the enemy jungler is at all competent.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

A laner who knows how to stop leashing at the correct time is never hitting level 2 after their enemy. Especially since the enemy is often leashing as well. However, a jungler without a Leash is ALWAYS behind on their enemy in levels, gold AND clear time which means the enemy jungler ganks sooner, counter jungles, backs sooner, buys items sooner, therefor clears and ganks even more sooner.

The Poetic Zed1 votes

QUICK....someone get the popcorn [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Just found out you guys call 2 autos and an ability cast a leash.

I leash to at least 750.

Dynikus2 votes

top lane leash is typically short so you don't fall behind in lane.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

That would probably be why you are missing gold and experience unnecessarily.

Even if the laner only uses two abilities and an autoattack, that reduces the time required for the jungler to finish the camp (and reduces the damage they take).

Even a short leash will be beneficial to the jungler.

Succubús GF1 votes

First off, it actually isnt the junglers fault you lost lane. You should be able to leash nd get to lane just at the same time as your top laner does, if not just a tad bit later, bot lane doesnt and you dont see them crying for lv2 ganks. Get better

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