Game is now more than ever about playing broken champs to win.

option paralysis·Jun 25, 2019·69 votes·17,282 views

There's no more real counterplay, because broken champs have almost everything in their kit, no weak point and if you're not a meta sheep, your chances of winning drop drastically even vs. lower tier players, just cuz you haven't played riots golden boy champs. How do you stop a fed jax/irelia/riven etc... Sheeps playing sejuani and getting better teammates, have fun losing cuz you can't do anything.

There's no strategy to winning games, it's kill people in 0.5 secs with broken champs or be lucky and get better teammates. It's so stupid and it's the reason this is the first year in 6 seasons I haven't started solo q. I just don't know what to play, I never mained meta shit and this season is all about that. I don't wanna uninstall league, but it's becoming really hard to press play.

76 Comments

FederationFurryJun 25, 201927 votes

((Modern Champs and Ridiculous Gimmicks))

Top - Camille Mid - Zoe Jungle - Kayn ADC - Kaisa Support - Pyke

All these champions are "modern" and they can all do everything with no actual trade off. Is it any wonder that League's playerbase in on a decline? This is the quality of champion releases these days and it all started with Yasuo .

That was the exact point the game where power creep and greed motivated Riot rather then the players. Riot had to start "reworking" older champs just to help them stay relevant but modern champs are usually much better.

1M Gold Udyr XDJun 25, 20198 votes

Even reworked Champions like Aatrox(though he was released Season 3, and Season 1 champions still not updated), Irelia and Akali are fucking ridiculous compared to much older champions.

ZeromatsuJun 25, 20199 votes

I haven't seen a Zoe in ages. Probably cause she isn't that good anymore.

BigBellBruteJun 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I haven't seen a Zoe in ages. Probably cause she isn't that good anymore.

She pretty much disappeared when Lux said hi. Binding boom zap. Have fun in the fountain Zoe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65weTZUbMTY

Zeppelins circusJun 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I haven't seen a Zoe in ages. Probably cause she isn't that good anymore.

She is nerfed, but on the other hand, people realized that she IS statistically the 6th most difficult champion in the game and is not play to win.

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20192 votes

How the fuck does Kayn have no trade offs, or 'do everything'?

Starcraft243verJun 26, 20193 votes

Escape in the walls, dash, blink that makes you untargetable, cc.

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20192 votes

Wow, cool, you just listed the things he has. He doesn't do everything, his entire design is that you lose out on things by choosing a form in favor of other things. He doesn't get CC if you go SA, you don't get Range without going SA, his mobility through walls is significantly less he goes Rhaast, Kayn's survivability is significantly less if he goes SA.

Those 4 things he has is not him doing 'Everything'. You're just listing the aspects of his kit and trying to say that is everything, and ignoring that one of them, you don't even get if you choose the other form. Hell, his entire trade off is that Kayn is literally 3/4ths a champion early game, leaving him vulnerable for a good 10-15 minutes, 20 if you abuse the fuck out of him, and even then, Rhaast gets countered by an 800 gold item, and SA Kayn just requires you to not tab out of the game near walls.

You know who has everything? Ekko. Percent Health damage, burst, two slows, a Dash and a blink on the same ability, a shield and CC on the same ability, a huge heal plus burst On the same ability.

Starcraft243verJun 26, 20191 votes

Sorry i'm not comparing overloaded kits with overloaded kits.

I'm comparing these kits to :

Veigar, annie, Ashe, jinx ... kits :)

ModAcademy KaynJun 27, 20191 votes

So champions made almost 10 to 7 years ago nice, nice. It's almost like not everything needs to be braindead simple in order to exist.

Starcraft243verJun 27, 20191 votes

May I suggest that given your username you can't participate in an objective discussion about weither kayn's kit is overloaded or not ?

If the opposite of "Braindead simple" is "getting every single asset in your kit", I agree that "Braindead simple" is the only thing that should exist in this game in order to have a fun and balanced gaming experience.

ModAcademy KaynJun 28, 20191 votes

May I suggest the idea that just because someone is a main, they don't 100% become biased towards their champion in ways that aren't healthy or helpful in discussions? I have a lot of experience with Kayn, I have plenty of experience in other roles than Kayn, and I'm overall comfortable with any role in the game. My opinion is just as valid as yours, and the fact you need to resort to having to stop me from arguing at all, is pretty telling that you can't find a single argument to stand on.

chipndip1Jun 26, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=0002000300010000,timestamp=2019-06-26T15:12:45.037+0000)

Wow, cool, you just listed the things he has. He doesn't do everything, his entire design is that you lose out on things by choosing a form in favor of other things. He doesn't get CC if you go SA, you don't get Range without going SA, his mobility through walls is significantly less he goes Rhaast, Kayn's survivability is significantly less if he goes SA.

Those 4 things he has is not him doing 'Everything'. You're just listing the aspects of his kit and trying to say that is everything, and ignoring that one of them, you don't even get if you choose the other form. Hell, his entire trade off is that Kayn is literally 3/4ths a champion early game, leaving him vulnerable for a good 10-15 minutes, 20 if you abuse the fuck out of him, and even then, Rhaast gets countered by an 800 gold item, and SA Kayn just requires you to not tab out of the game near walls.

You know who has everything? Ekko. Percent Health damage, burst, two slows, a Dash and a blink on the same ability, a shield and CC on the same ability, a huge heal plus burst On the same ability.

This whole thread is a massive "I hate everything gold" circle jerk. People are really out here complaining that 45% win rate champions are to blame for why they lose games.
Ekko has those tools because, for an assassin, he has significantly more variance in his key abilities than other assassins. Now, if he gets fed, he'll just blink onto you, Q > AA (Lich proc) and murder the hell out of you, but otherwise, landing the key abilities to make him work is significantly harder on him than most other assassins (ult and W are both highly predictable).

Literal IRL TreeJun 26, 20191 votes

Post that gets upvotes like these are the reason most people don't take the boards seriously.

ModAcademy KaynJun 27, 20191 votes

I'm fully aware that Ekko has all those tools because he's designed around a play pattern that relies on successfully using those tools to be successful. Even with the awareness that you shouldn't simply look at what a champion has in their kit, but also in how said tools are used/the entire context of the champion in the game, I think Ekko shouldn't have been designed with that many tools, even if his play pattern requires said tools.

That's my opinion however, understandably others don't feel the same way, and such is why Ekko exists :P

Literal IRL TreeJun 26, 20192 votes

Camille is a mid tier top laner, Zoe is a meh mid atm, Kayn is another mid tier champ, Kai Sa is insane once you hit diamond and people play her well, Pyke is just annoying. Also proof of the game's playerbase declining or another baseless statement because you are upset?

Caitlyn FTWJun 25, 201912 votes

[deleted]

Lazy GrandpaJun 26, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-25T17:02:47.697+0000)

I've been slowly quiting league for this very same reason. Even though Caitlyn has become meta again, I just don't want to play her because I see the enemy team picks And my teammates pick zero peel.

It is not even about good positioning or good map awareness. When I play Kai'sa or Ezreal, I die less often because they can hard peel themselves. Nowadays, damage is everything. If you can kill the enemy carry first you win. If the enemy team's carry is Irelia then Rip there is no way you are killing that shit before it kills you.

I've been finding enjoyment in playing other games such ARPG and JRPG. I think MOBA games aren't for me. This auto chess game is probably something I'll be playing every once in a while but I've given up on League. I'm not spending any penny on this shitty game anymore. LOL has become an utter garbage of a game that is catered to Asian markets where players are very happy seeing big numbers flashing on the screen and doing big damage in the span of a less than a second. Fuck league of damage.

you've been playing jrpg's? play the "tales of" games, brother

Caitlyn FTWJun 26, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Lazy GrandpaJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T04:08:54.197+0000)

*-- #What are "Tales of games?" #What other JRPG games have you been playing? #Do you recommend anything?

i've never had any interest in atelier series so i don't hav emuch to say about that

tales of games are just a jrpg series with a cast of various characters with a multitude of interaction and a long ass story. it has a generally fun battle system.

to be honest i'm dogshit at explaining things like this so it's probrably more helpfull if you youtube ''the tales of series'' you'll find a good answer there.

i can recommend you trails of cold steel, YS VIII: the lacrimosa of dana, dragon quest series, tales of series. final fantasy.

some other random series i recommend are more like visual novels which atelier also is a bit: Zero Escape series which is a visual novel with many puzzles and Danganronpa series which is a visual novel with murder mystery and trials very interesting. also Shin Megami Tensei and the Persona series are jrpg with strategical turn-based battle elements.

imo you should probrably youtube some of these series, wether you'll like them or not is fine, but with this you can branch out a bit in different directions some similar elements from atelier and some very different.

oh now that i think of it kingdom hearts is also a pretty fun series.

i'm off to bed, sorry for the late response! lemme know if any of these games interest you

Literal IRL TreeJun 26, 20192 votes

Irelia is so so bad right now outside of high elo. You say that teammates don't pick peel like that ever happened lol.

ThingamajigJun 25, 20199 votes

how exactly wasnt it about broken champs before?

meta has been a thing since season 2

Kai GuyJun 25, 20191 votes

Season 1 imo. Fuck AP sion.

ThingamajigJun 25, 20193 votes

well he wasn't meta for sure everything was pretty much broken at that point

dodge chance jax especially sion with both ad and ap (ad being able to face tank fountain laser and 5 champs) (ap 2 tapping people) udyr being near invulnerable with a few specific items Yi pentaklilling while untargettable during the whole fight soraka being able to heal herself and give mana to herself with point and click instant silence and aura mr reduction nuke and many more

i don't know why people suddenly feel like the game is in a shit place if riot were to give us back any patch from a seasons 1-4 i guarantee some champions will skyrocket to 65% win rates in less than 2-3 days especially jax during the dodge chance era lul

SgtAwesomenessJun 25, 20195 votes

{quoted}

how exactly wasnt it about broken champs before?

meta has been a thing since season 2

you could still climb with off meta champions if you were a solid one trick

Moody PJun 25, 20197 votes

and you still can?

SgtAwesomenessJun 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T16:40:04.895+0000)

and you still can?

Thing is im bad so i cant

Abibyama IIJun 25, 20195 votes

Hey you're being honest at least

Nea104Jun 25, 20197 votes

Things got worse because of the (neverending) burst meta. So now many broken champions seem even more uncounterable: they kill you once, they kill you the whole game. And, they don't nerf them (even after months) because of reasons.

Plus, they added so many things that even if not OP are incredibly annoying to play against; but they call them "interactive".

Wonder why their game is going that bad :D

Luigi TortelliniJun 25, 20195 votes

This game has only gone downhill since the Yasuo release.

IonshatterJun 25, 20193 votes

[deleted]

IainG10Jun 26, 20194 votes

Thresh came before Yas, and at least if you put a Thresh down he stays there. Yas builds 2 items and becomes God

Luigi TortelliniJun 26, 20192 votes

I really miss when Thresh is all people complained about. Now Thresh in 2019 heals to full if you don't 1 shot him, has stealth and a resetting aoe true damage execute. Riot has ran out of ideas and it's clear to me that they're letting interns they hired off deviant art design new champions

MiracleMorg94Jun 25, 20194 votes

Agreed. Ever since they brought in Runes Reforged and started spitting out things like Pyke and Zoe, the game has gotten so much worse, and Riot continues to ignore us as well.

Maybe when the game finally declines enough that they aren't making money, they will finally listen. Who knows.

ApollogyJun 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. Ever since they brought in Runes Reforged and started spitting out things like Pyke and Zoe, the game has gotten so much worse, and Riot continues to ignore us as well.

Maybe when the game finally declines enough that they aren't making money, they will finally listen. Who knows.

Runes Reforged was just a way for Riot to remove the Runes system without everyone getting upset. They didn't "rework" runes, all they did was rename the old Mastery system into "Runes" and completely removed Runes. Then when they realized that general stats based on your rune path isn't gonna work, they brought the old "Runes" back basically, without Quints. (There's just far less customization and options than we had before).

But honestly, minus the customization, Runes Reforged is actually the same stuff with a different skin. Can't imagine it being a problem, since having a system like this for pre-game strategy has been a part of league for ages.

CarpeConundrumJun 25, 20194 votes

My sole complaint is that the broken AF champs are FUCKING BORING to play. Karma is DISGUSTING right now, and she's boring as hell. I don't want to win at the expense of fun. There's nothing fun about morde, karma, pyke, etc. They're all boring.

3TWarriorJun 26, 20192 votes

well, karma is fun but her interactions are rather...off. Interaction isn't always a good thing but with karma, she either does well against a neutral or strong matchup, or does poorly against a counter matchup. There's little in-between, especially in top lane

she was created or adjusted for mid-lane after all, and then transmogrified into a support because of her shield when it was the least fun mechanic in her kit. I loved giving allies movement speed boosts, but i'd give up shield power when it comes at the expense of her offensive spells

fifek900Jun 26, 20191 votes

fun is subjective*[sona-playing]*

CarpeConundrumJun 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

fun is subjective*[sona-playing]*

Not really. If someone had genuine fun murdering other humans (IE; a serial killer) then we could all agree they were having fun in the wrong way.

TTvRareChillJun 25, 20192 votes

Upvote. If you aren't playing a 1v9 champion like irelia akali sylas khazix rengar zed talon Katarina vayne jinx etc. What are you even doing.

JuiceBoxPJun 26, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dance Puppet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-25T14:43:55.040+0000)

Upvote. If you aren't playing a 1v9 champion like irelia akali sylas khazix rengar zed talon Katarina vayne jinx etc. What are you even doing.

Akali katarina and talon are FAR from being 1v9 champs lul

ßreakJun 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dance Puppet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwnAmjNZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-25T14:43:55.040+0000)

Upvote. If you aren't playing a 1v9 champion like irelia akali sylas khazix rengar zed talon Katarina vayne jinx etc. What are you even doing.

rengar as a 1v9 champion lmao.

14daysuspensionkJun 25, 20191 votes

it might be just because of my low-ass elo, but I play TONS of champions that no one else is willing to play and most of the time I see myself doing well and successfully with them in games. Even outplaying oneshotters.

IonshatterJun 25, 201915 votes

Unfortunately it is a lower ELO thing. The higher in ranks you go the better people get at playing their champs, and the sad truth is that a perfectly played Jax will never beat a perfectly played Akali. That's why so many pro games are: Farm for 20 mins, teamfight, baron, game over. No big plays, no interesting picks, no unique strats. A fed Akali is too much of a risk, because a perfectly played Akali can 1v5 when fed.

Starcraft243verJun 26, 20192 votes

All the people complaining ARE low elo so it's quite ironical.

chipndip1Jun 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately it is a lower ELO thing. The higher in ranks you go the better people get at playing their champs, and the sad truth is that a perfectly played Jax will never beat a perfectly played Akali. That's why so many pro games are: Farm for 20 mins, teamfight, baron, game over. No big plays, no interesting picks, no unique strats. A fed Akali is too much of a risk, because a perfectly played Akali can 1v5 when fed.

Jax isn't SUPPOSED to beat Akali. Akali's supposed to shit on targeted carries like skirmishers and marksmen.

IonshatterJun 29, 20192 votes

Ok lets list the roles that Akali beats.

Akali beats every bruiser in the game because her ability to shroud and attack them with no counter. Akali beats every mage because she gets a 50% MS buff in shroud and destroys immobile squishy champs with no counter, not even zhonyas. Akali beats every tank because she can build Void staff Morelloes and bring Conqueror to out sustain and damage them with no counter. Akali beats every juggernaut because she can abuse her absurd mobility to dodge everything they have then outdamage them with no counter. Akali beats every marksman for the same reason she beats bruisers and mages with no counter. Akali beats every jungler because they are typically bruisers or tanks, and she can press W to end the gank with no counter, or go over a wall. Akali beats every support because they are supports. Akali beats every Assassin with the exception of especially talented Zeds, and that's still a matchup in Akali's favor due to her shroud. Akali beats divers at diving. Akali beats skirmishers at skirmishing. Akali beats bruisers at sustain damage. Akali beats everyone. EVERY one.

Lets not act like some champions are vastly superior to others in every way.

chipndip1Jun 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ok lets list the roles that Akali beats.

Akali beats every bruiser in the game because her ability to shroud and attack them with no counter.

And at this point I'm not entertaining someone that can't make a point without blatantly overdone hyperbole when complaining about a 43% win rate champion.

There's no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone that overstates a champion's strengths to this degree.