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Riot, Lets Talk Shen

ExecutorDill·Jan 28, 2015·2 votes·728 views

Any feedback on shen place in LoL is greatly appreciated. I would to know how rioters as well as my fellow summoners feel about:

His Gameplay His Model His Core Fantasy and how accurate it is protrayed in his abillities His Lore

Just about everything and if ever subject to change, how would you go about doing it :D

EDIT: My Ideas

Q- Deals 65/105/145/185/225 +60 AP as magic damage. Heal increased to 4/10/16/22/28 +1.5 max health. Range increased to 525 units.

W- Passive: Mind's Eye- Casting Feint wit 825 units of stealth traps and champions will give shen vision of them for 2 seconds but will not remove thier stealth. The vision is reduced to 1 second for champions in brush.

Active: Shen gains a shield that absorbs 60/95/130/165/200 +60 AP and 5% of shen's missing health. If the shield breaks shen is able to cast Crescent Slash during the cooldown of Feint.

W2- Crescent Slash: Shen leaps 175 units away from target direction slashing his swords at target direction projecting energy from it reaching 475 units in a 115° skillshot cone. The energy slash deal 50% of the broken shield as magic damage weakening the power of enemies abillities by 10/15/20/25/30 for 3 seconds after being struck.

E- 55/85/115/145/175 +50/75/100/125/150% Bonus Mov Spd as magic damage. Instead of reducing damage by 50% shen now dodges all basic attacks from taunted enemies. Dashing to a target marked with Vorpal Blade reduces the cooldown of shadow dash by 25%.

17 Comments

PhifeJan 28, 20152 votes

He needs to change, he is a ninja not a tank.

SEKAIJan 28, 20151 votes

Ninjas do more than assassinations and stealth.

PhifeJan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ninjas do more than assassinations and stealth.

give me a link to were a ninja is a big fat guy who tanks everything.

http://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w1280/hl7fBw4noh2TORNMVac9DNh8Mii.jpg Doesn't count.

SEKAIJan 28, 20151 votes

Read my post below it has all the explanations to why Shen is how he is there, I can't be bothered to copy paste that since it will just be a waste of space.

PhifeJan 28, 20151 votes

Shen doesn't represent balance... he just taunts and flicks regen daggers at people.... nothing thematic about it.

What im saying is he doesnt have a solid theme other than big bully and fat tank.

SEKAIJan 28, 20151 votes

Did you actually read my post?

The 3 ninjas in the game represent the 3 aspects of ninja.

Kennen for the fantasy ninjitsu stuff, Akali for assassination and Shen for ninja's code of honour and their ability to fight people face to face.

It's video games, you will be surprised to see how people take certain aspects of something then exaggerate them and I am perfectly ok with that.

Ninjas were used for many, many things, anything that samurai didn't bother to do were handed to and handled by ninja. They live or die were not anyone's concern, they had practically no status in the society back in the days, so they learned to do pretty much everything in order to survive.

Shen only portrays some aspects of them, rest are handled by other ninjas in LoL.

Arguing for historical corrections in games is as stupid as it gets.

I don't give 2 shiet about how "general public" view ninjas.

PhifeJan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Did you actually read my post?

The 3 ninjas in the game represent the 3 aspects of ninja.

Kennen for the fantasy ninjitsu stuff, Akali for assassination and Shen for ninja's code of honour and their ability to fight people face to face.

It's video games, you will be surprised to see how people take certain aspects of something then exaggerate them and I am perfectly ok with that.

Ninjas were used for many, many things, anything that samurai didn't bother to do were handed to and handled by ninja. They live or die were not anyone's concern, they had practically no status in the society back in the days, so they learned to do pretty much everything in order to survive.

Shen only portrays some aspects of them, rest are handled by other ninjas in LoL.

Arguing for historical corrections in games is as stupid as it gets.

I don't give 2 shiet about how "general public" view ninjas.

Kennen represnts speed and agile and akali represents balance (read her passive) shen has no place in their tri force of happiness.

SEKAIJan 28, 20151 votes

All ninja are agile, including Shen.

His w is called Feint, which is a deceiving attack move, which works both defensively and offensively just like the spell says. Giving a shield may not be the best representation ever but it gets the job done. He dahes and throws blade with pin point accuracy (single target). Not to mention he teleports anywhere as he pleases.

How is this not saying that Shen is a speedy and agile character (while being tanky)? He always keeps his stance low too.

Kennen shoots lightning there is no doubt that he represents the fantasy ninjutsu that started somewhere in the modern Japan, Akali represents assassinations and Shen covers the rest. Why does Akali having Balance in her kit have to do with anything? All of them represents Balance since it's their ninja group.

I don't mind if you hate him being tank, make him bruiser at least if you wanna rework. He is as good as he goes tbh I personally don't wish any changes being made to him other than some balancing tweaks.

StoningtonJan 28, 20151 votes

He has about as much damage as Thresh. His sustain is pretty weak. And he was nerfed pretty hard when they changed sunfire cape.

With that said, his ult can still be ridiculously strong. Shen's always been about breaking even in lane and turning around the other lanes with his ult. He can never get more damage or more utility when his ult is so ridiculously strong.

ExecutorDillJan 28, 20152 votes

He doesn't need more damage, maybe a flat 5 on the base of his Q and E but thats it. Sustain however is debatable, at lvl 1 eveyone has roughly around the same stats no wide gap between anyone, but it the build paths and abillities that determine the output of your champ so with damage needed to win in every aspect of the game and it generally being stronger than defense shen will almost always fall hard. I agree his ult can change the course of small skirmishes aling with his E, but he still loses lane and it has a massive cooldown plus it scales with AP which i find is very unhealthy on shen especially if he is suppose to go full tank. So i think they can allow a bit more in his kit.

My Ideas:

Increase Vorpal Blade's base healing to 4/10/16/22/28 1.5 max health and increase the heal by 50% to champs below 40% health.

Remove the passive timer reduction on W and add something more healthy an aoe knockback or steal detection on trap and champs (not wards).

Have Feint scale with missing health.

Have shadow dash scale with bonus movement speed.

Increase the base damage of Q and E by 5 at each lvl.

Dashing to a target marked with Vorpal Blade reduces the cooldown of shadow dash.

ExecutorDillJan 28, 20151 votes

Personally imho, i'd expect a njnja to bring pure utility to the field, (as long as it game healthy of course) things like escapability, weakening targets, being generally slippery and high reward if you managed to kill them. Burst and sustained damage i find irrelevant for defining the ninja core fantasy, thats more up the samurai's ally. A ninja should be totally self sufficient yet being an essential part of the team due to his utility and should be able to cover up or compensate for any obvious weaknesses, bringing the unpredictable factor into the game.

SEKAIJan 28, 20151 votes

There were ninja and there were shinobi.

I think I read that ninja is more of a general term while shinobi is referring to trained spies and mercenaries that were active during 15th century. Hence shinobi gives more stealth image than ninja, since ninja has a lot of other general utilities including combat (when got caught for whatever reason they always fight their way out). Also ninja like samurai has their own code of honour to follow and they wore dark blue instead of black unlike how people generally depict them these days.

Shen was to made to portray a few sides of ninja, a decent one at that.

I see nothing particularly wrong with the depiction. Not to mention why the hell not run a little gimmick into character designs, there are already 2 other ninjas around anyway.

The 3 ninjas represents the general depiction of them, Akali represents the assassin aspect, Kennen represents the fantasy ninjutsu aspect and Shen represents their finesse in combat and their code of honour.

EDIT:

Balance wise I don't think Shen is doing that bad, I played Shen 6 games out of my 10 placement, except 1 game where I had an intentional afk mid way through the game and the other where I was lagging 400 ping the entire game. I did manage to win the rest without too much issue.

I do not wish you change him simply to fit the general public's understanding of ninja, he is as perfect as it goes design wise.

He may need tweaks here and there (I don't really mind him as how he is today, he is very cool for me), but don't make him an assassin for no good reason. Keep him as a tank or bruiser.

ExecutorDillJan 28, 20151 votes

I understand that bursty assassination doesn't fit shen's theme. But tanking really doesn't do it either (although i like feeling indestructible) i mean he doesn't look like a tank, and him being able to port cross the map and effectively draw the attention of the enemy and soak damage while the endangered ally turns around and burst them gaining a bit of health from shen's Q is the reason he lacks impact in his Q,W,E.

I find he be best as a pure utility agile fighter. tank, fighter or assasin i don't mind, as long as his primary role is not support. That would make me sad

SnackieCakesJan 28, 20151 votes

What if they changed his ult so that:

It had a much lower cooldown.

Much lower delay on that actual teleport.

BUT DIDN'T PROVIDE A SHIELD!

What!?

That way, his ult would be more about jumping in to help out with a fight before it's gone all wrong, and if he needs to save someone, he gets there right away in order to taunt.

Maybe he could also gain some bonus resistances in that time, since losing the shield would be a big change. It might make Shen a lot more fun, though.

EllphiJan 28, 20151 votes

Why the fk is he a tank if he's a ninja
His entire kit is worthless just because his Ult is strong, and his ult only has a 20 minute CD! He doesn't do damage, he doesn't push, he has poor mobility, he sucks at tanking, he has almost no cc, and he barely sustains.

Jolly RogeredJan 28, 20151 votes

Shen is hardly a bully, at least until late game. Getting pushed under the turret and being susceptible to tower dives is not fun. He may have sustain from his Q but what good does that do when other champs out DMG your sustain?

I only play him in the jungle now since other champs pushed him away from Top lane, Gnar and Rek Sai being the worst of these offenders.

I would like to see an improvement on his E. give it more width, possibly have a very short stun. Lengthen the distance of his E as well. It would also be nice to give him a movement speed boost. He has so much potential in this new jungle.

WoodakoodashoodaJan 28, 20151 votes

Shen was always a difficult champion to play. Before, he was this tank that could take any amount of punishment and just about live through it. He shined in team fights because he could taunt anything he touched and allow his team to lay waste to the field. Nowadays, assassins and APC have reduced him to more of a niche champion than ever before.

The CD on his ultimate is ridiculously high and why bother when people can just pick teleport and zap themselves to a hidden ward for a better gank? His Vorpal Blade is next to useless. There's almost no sustain out of it. If I'm going to play a champion for sustain, I'll pick Warwick. His shield is just a luxurious redundancy given that there are enough supporters to give allies bonus health/shielding. And his taunt just means he's the first to die in the present meta, affording next to no assistance to the team.

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