Boards›Gameplay

[opinion] Rylais is unhealthy: it gives free slows to mages who shouldn't have cc

redfeenix··9 votes·1,540 views

Edit: perhaps we can put a 1 or 2 second CD on rylais slow. Ie if you slow a champ, you can't slow him for again for another 1 second. This wouldn't change rylais for the regular mages with normal cool downs. However it would provide a fair nerf to champs that can spam spells like Cassiopeia so they can't perma slow anymore

Giving free cc to any champion is not a good idea. Many mage kits have slows and cc. These champs sacrifice raw power for strong utility. They have less offensive abilities and sacrifice it for the cc skill.

However rylais can give any mage strong cc abilities. Mages like Cassiopeia already have a slow in their kit. Giving them a perma slow ( on a 1 second CD) is NOT healthy or fair to play against. I don't think any champ is supposed to have such a strong perma slow ( maybe ash )

Once these mages get rylais, they become hugely strong not just because of their damage, but because of the infinite utility of the slows.

I think that champs have well designed kits with cc. I think rylais is unhealthy because it gives champs free slows on regular abilities. Mages should not get cc on damaging abilities.

For example azir is supposed to be a area control mage who has high damage and only 1 cc. Add rylais and he can slow the whole team. I dont think mages who have no cc in their kits should get be allowed to slow the entire enemy team.

What do you guys think about rylais? Is it OP or am I just overreacting.

Cheers

25 Comments

Caítlyn4 votes

3600 gold is now "free".

redfeenix1 votes

Okay obviously an exaggeration but let's look at it this way rylais gives a hell of a lot of utility. So on some champs, like Cassiopeia , getting a perma slow for 3.6k gold is almost a steal.

This makes Cassiopeia, a raw damage champ, someone who can kite and chase like a monster while also doing high damage.

I think these High damage mages are becoming way too Strong for only 3.6k gold. On these champs rylais brings way more value and utility than 3.6k worth

Caítlyn4 votes

Cassiopeia NEEDSitem 3116 to be useful at all. She has no reliable CC and she is very short ranged. She also has no defense mechanism, no shields, no tank stats, nothing. With all of the gap closers in the game, she is always at extremely high risk and Rylais is the only item making her remotely viable.

redfeenix1 votes

I beg to disagree I think Cassiopeia can wipe the floor without rylais. Rylais just makes her insanely overpowers but she is strong without it.

She has a movement speed boost 2 CCS and the highest DPS for a mage. Skilled Cassiopeia players will rely on their positioning and mechanics and don't have to rely on rylais to play well.

While rylais is probably the best item for her since permaslow OP, I think she can be fun and viable without building it as well

DrCyanide3 votes

I think it's worth pointing out that some Mages have power removed from their kit, with the intention that they'll get Rylai's to make up the difference.

For example, Xerath. His ultimate was made to fire significantly slower with the Mid Year Mage Update. The change is so significant that while Rylai's was simply a good idea before it's almost a requirement to land multiple hits from his ultimate now.

redfeenix2 votes

Thsts interesting I didn't know that. But then there's champs like Cassiopeia who should be banned from getting a rylais. How the fk do you balance a spam heavy high DPS champ who now has a 40℅ slow on a 1s CD

DrCyanide4 votes

Cass and Azir are really the only Mages in that category, aren't they? It would seem the solution would be to make their rapid fire abilities not trigger spell effects, not ruin the item for Sol, Singed, Xerath, and others that rely on it.

redfeenix1 votes

Yeh I was thinking of your comment with xerath. I agree that spending such a heft sum for cc should be worth it and it should be a viable item for mages.

I think you're right and if we nerfed / disallowed these spam heavy champs from perma slowing it would benefit the game.

Im wondering if putting some sort of CD on rylais would be a good compromise? IE once your slowed by rylais you cannot be slowed again for like 1 second ? I'm really not sure

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Cass and Azir are really the only Mages in that category, aren't they? It would seem the solution would be to make their rapid fire abilities not trigger spell effects, not ruin the item for Sol, Singed, Xerath, and others that rely on it.

^ this well Viktor too as it makes his ulti impossible to escape if he has it. but item 3116 is SOO useful on so many champs that it actually makes them viable in the current meta.

item 3116 +item 1410 oritem 3285 is a godsend for quite a few champs.

VoidStaresBack3 votes

I'm not quite sure why this is being downvoted, the OP states why their opinion is the way it is and has proven open to discussion on the matter. If you disagree, state why.

I'm in the same camp with quite a few of the other commenters that there are a lot of champions who it's useful and fair on, but a few champions who abuse the hell out of it. One of my favorite suggestions I've seen for fixing it is the "reduce AP, increase HP" option, which would make it less useful for the high-damage mages who abuse it and more useful for the (generally) tankier mages who use it as a core part of their kit regardless of whether or not it's strong.

redfeenix2 votes

Some people really love rylais I guess :p

Now your idea is something I haven't considered ... Very interesting. Could we have rylais build out of haunting guise for example ? Maybe haunting guise and catalyst ? Idk just spitballing

Interesting suggest I think it would make sense if you wanna use an item slot for slows, you should lose some raw AP. Great suggestion

irelia dore u1 votes

Just theorycrafting completely...

item 3116 Rylai's Crystal Scepter

Build path: item 3136 + item 1031 + item 1028 + 800g (total: 3600g)

500 Health 40 Armor 40 Ability Power Unique Passive - Eyes of Pain: +15 Magic Penetration Unique Passive: Your single-target damaging abilities slow the target by 60% for 1 second (30% for damage over time abilities, only applied once). The slow duration is halved for ranged champions. (2 second cooldown).

Of course, I can't balance this at all, but as a rough idea? Maybe.

Eedat2 votes

Azir + item 3116 ugh

redfeenix1 votes

Gahhhhhh not only does he do huge dmg. Now he fkn slows too so he can do MORE DMG. Wow how the fk does sand slow you anyways

Eedat1 votes

I almost feel bad because they pretty much balance him around that item

Girard2 votes

Don't AD champions get huge Magic Resist items that don't impede their insane damage output and waveclear, higher health, armor penetration, and all the other perks AD items give? I'm not an advocate for mages or one of those people that cry when mages get changed but it's ridiculous to sit here and watch as everyone complains about 1 item with 1 effect when AD champs have an insane list of stuff going for them that in reality is much worse. The only reason people complain about Rylai's is because of the moderate slow it gives, if you get caught out by a mage with it you deserve to get punished. Just use a mobility spell or fight back, 400 health is nothing compared to the amount of stats AD champs usually get.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Rylai's currently has the same issue as old item 3157 : A massively powerful defensive/utility effect on an item that is also one of the strongest offensive items to buy.

redfeenix1 votes

Hnm perhaps lowering the AP would make it less of a must buy and more of a buy If you need slows

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Hnm perhaps lowering the AP would make it less of a must buy and more of a buy If you need slows

its just a DPS mage problem. Pets shouldnt proc it at all (sand soldiers, ghouls, voidlings, spiderlings). Raylais was meant for burst mages with long cooldowns, not dps mages.

redfeenix1 votes

I agree I think putting a one or two seconds CD in the rylais slow might good. I wouldn't affect the mages with regular cool downs like Vik or zigs, but it would nerf the perma slowing Cassiopeia or azir

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

I agree I think putting a one or two seconds CD in the rylais slow might good. I wouldn't affect the mages with regular cool downs like Vik or zigs, but it would nerf the perma slowing Cassiopeia or azir

Rather than an internal cooldown, i think lowering the slow a tier would be a better idea. Azir and malzahar dont need it on their pets, but cass and ryze need it to an extent. Lowering the slow a tier each time its re-applied would go a loong way to making it feel better to play against.

or course coding it to tell the difference between recasting the same ability and the same ability doing damage over time is difficult.

Spicy Rice1 votes

I suggested what I thought would be a good fix in a thread I made a week ago or so.

Basically, you make it so that spells have cool downs as to how often they can apply rylais.

That way, people who rotate spells can still get decent slows off, but people with dots don't get an infinite slow

A different solution would be to make it more defensive of an item or more offensive.

Like having it give less hp but more damage, or more hp but less damage

redfeenix1 votes

This is a great idea and s valid compromise. Let's say that once your slowed by a rylais you can't be slowed again for 1 second by rylais. I think this would not affect most mages who have standard cool downs , but only affect those who spam a ton of spells.

Great thinking man.

Rawrbot50001 votes

Ryalais + Brand = Perma slow it needs to be nerf'd or taken out. Constant, AOE, Slow makes it impossible to get close for anyone without a gap closer. Nothing worse than being kited by a player thats dealing minimal damage but you're slowed to fuck. Throw in a Lylandries and permaslow. Congrats on that no counterplay item.

redfeenix1 votes

Yep or Perma slow Azir or Zyra. These champs were never meant to be a 40% slow on such a huge range. Its unfortunate

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by redfeenix

[suggestion] surrender vote should disappear after 2 people vote no
Gameplay86 comments
271
votes
[opinion] Why restrict SOLO Q to diamond+? Lower elo players want Solo q too!
Gameplay231 comments
201
votes
[opinion] Riot will use new ranked emblems to 'prove' that most players play dynamic, and few solos
Gameplay241 comments
192
votes
Please don't release ranked borders for this season
Gameplay234 comments
180
votes
[opinion] why are sand soldiers invincible? They should tank for their king and be attackable
Gameplay157 comments
86
votes
[suggestion] Make Barrier shield twice as Strong for half the duration
Gameplay100 comments
67
votes