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mechanical skill vs game knowledge

SwiftKitten88··3 votes·5,392 views

ignoring season 6 completely becuase of dynamic boost... i have noticed that many player have mechanical skill WAY above thier current elo.. but have absolutely no game knowledge

yet there are other players.. (myself among many others) who know the game inside and out, exactly what to do and when, champions matchups, what each champ does, and so on and so forth, yet at the same time.. just don't have the mechanical skill to press the correct buttons and click fast enough with the required accuracy.

now i think it would be cool if there was some way the game could gather some statistics on these things and possibly display how good you are at each.

we kind of have this for specific champions... obviously if you are mastery 7 then you have the game knowledge of that champion.

but it would be cool of we could have some sort of rating of knowledge vs mechanical skill.

for example.. i have the mechanical skill of a silver player, but i have the game knowledge of a plat/diamond. the highest rank i have climbed is "silver 2"

where as i have played with and against people who frankly have mechanical skill level of diamond player... but have the game knowledge of a bronze.

i frankly have no idea how this could be done. but i think it would be a cool addition if it could somehow be possible

becuase during my climb in season 3-5, ( i didn't bother playing ranked this season after climbing out of bronze to silver 5) i have wondered: how far can i climb with just "game knowledge" while only having the "mechanical skill" of a silver. becuase i frankly cant increase my "mechanical skill", at least not until someone creates a device to directly hook my brain up to my computer.

47 Comments

Niyumi3 votes

Mechanical skill is learned. Keep playing, and your brain will create new synapses and whatnot, your muscles will get stronger in the weak areas, muscle memory starts to kick in, and you develop better mechanics. Sure, some people naturally have a high level of dexterity and mechanics, but everyone can develop them too.

Just keep working at it, and don't tell yourself you can't do it, because anatomy says you're a liar. ^^

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well some people dont have the same reflexes and hand eye coordination as others...

people who have great reflexes and hand eye coordination usually are better with mechanical aspects

for example hitting a baseball... yea you can learn the basic and practice and improve... but some people are just naturally better at it and great at it compared to the average person... they have better reflexes and hand eye coordination

there is a reason why a great athlete is far better then the average person

Niyumi1 votes

Again, anyone can develop reflexes and hand-eye coordination. It is not impossible.

Yes, some people are just naturally better at it, but that just means they got a free head start. Anyone can work and get to their level, or even surpass it.

Your brain and body are not static, they are always changing -- what they become is up to you.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

nope you can only get so good with out natural ability

Niyumi1 votes

With that mindset, sure. Again, anatomy says you're a liar.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

if you take two people... one who has greater natural talent and one who is average and they train the same amount just as hard in every which way... who would be better?

Niyumi1 votes

Depends on when. In the beginning, it'd probably be lopsided. But, as time went on, that gap would close and eventually entirely disappear.

And the person who spent all that time training may even end up being better, since all the new connections and everything are brand new and not all that used.

Just gotta not be so pessimistic.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

no it wouldnt disappear ... it would still be there cuz if the average player can improve their skill then the person with more natural talent still improves... there fore he would still have more skill/talent

both train the exact same way... one already has an advantage... how does the person with the disadvantage catch up?

Niyumi2 votes

See, here's the thing: The human body has limitations. Once you reach that limit, you don't improve anymore. Some people have a higher limit, so they could potentially get better.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

so the person with the higher limit most likely is the more naturally gifted person ?

Niyumi1 votes

God, you're even more pessimistic than I am. >.>

No, not necessarily. Could be, but it's not guaranteed.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

now let say you vs faker... do you think if you tried as hard and he does you can be as good as him ?

Niyumi2 votes

Uh, well, watching the LC$ games, I can say again that they're not really super good. They make bronze mistakes all the time, and make terrible plays left and right... they just work really well as a team. If it was just me and Faker, I might be able to hold my own. But then, he's been playing the game far longer than I have, and has a lot more experience, so I don't really know.

In the future, sure, anyone could play as well as him. But right now? I don't know if I could. Maybe, but I don't really know. I've gone up against diamonds when I was brand new to the game and won, and I've gone against challengers and came out of lane 15/2. I've never seen him play solo, and never played against him myself, so I don't know.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

lol ok well BULLSHIT... they are making "bronze" mistake vs the highest level of players therefore the mistakes look bronze but if they were vs a bronze player those mistakes wouldnt exist

Niyumi2 votes

When I (barely gold 5 after nearly 4,000 games) can see their mistakes before they even happen... yeah, they're not super good. They just have really good team coordination and macro decision making. But then, SSG vs. SKT, SSG lost because they did a lot of stupid things when they could have easily won, and SKT capitalized on that. So, even their macro gameplay is in question.

So, without all that, what's left? Incredible team coordination. That is what makes a team climb to the level of Worlds. Being individually skilled helps, but I see a lot of bad individual decision making and plays.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i bet if you pick the worst pro player and played him 10 times he wins 80% no contest

you might get lucky by him misclicking

Niyumi1 votes

Eh, I think it'd be closer to 55/45, depending on the matchup.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

nope , if you did a mirror match 1 vs 1 they would beat you 80%+ of the time no problem

WoonStruck1 votes

Have you heard the backstories of some athletes? Some of them started out as the weakest link on their team.

Any athlete will tell you that a large portion of their success is from mentality, not muscle. Their mentality is what drives them to get stronger in many cases.

Lack of motivation is what your real excuse is. There's a reason a good coach is such an important aspect of a strong team.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

that is the exception not the rule

WoonStruck1 votes

Not really?

Where's your proof that decent athletes aren't just that determined due to their mindset?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

hmm all the top 1% of pro athletes

the best of the best...

if all it took to be a pro athlete was will power and mindset then every one could do it....

and if all the pros are just as talented as the other pros then why are the truly great ones so far and between and rise above the masses ?

WoonStruck1 votes

No, not everyone could do it.

Maintaining determination over an extended period despite not always meeting your goals is an extremely difficult thing to do.

Mindset is an extremely hard thing to change, let alone to one that allows you to compete at the highest level. The old players of TSM were not bad players. Their mindset was not what it needed to be to compete at the highest level. Look at how much better they did during summer split compared to spring.

Did their physical capabilities somehow change? No. It took a change of mindset.

You can apply the same thing to physical athletics. Take the Detroit Tigers. They often do poorly during the regular season, but once it comes time for playoffs, they barely make it, then proceed to dominate in a lot of cases. Same with Detroit Redwings some seasons.

Did they get new players that had better physical capabilities? No. They had a change of mindset. The ability to achieve that mindset, often related to the coach guiding them, is what separates good athletes from simply above average ones.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

they were good they are better then .0001 % of players of the game

how? why? are they better then 99.9999 % of players

WoonStruck1 votes

Believe it or not, it takes determination and confidence to get there.

That's why people are willing to scout them. The fact that they're there shows that they're willing to put in hard work and effort. If that weren't the case, there would be way more difficult channels that players would be forced to go through before playing on a professional team.

The people that are good at the game WANT to be good at the game. That's a large part of the reason why they end up climbing to the top.

Find a professional League player that didn't want to get better.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

but you still have to be better then average with natural talent and then have the dedication and mindset to put in the work...

if i put in the same work ill get better but i wont ever be pro

AmetDeCrypt2 votes

play the same champion to gain mechanics, play different champions to gain knowledge. strike a balance between the two and you have a proper elo climbing attitude.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

and how do suppose to compensate for nerve damage and pinched nerve that makes my left arm/hand numb and have bad dexterity i would be better mechanically

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

play simpler mechanical champions, tanks, supports, do a few key things and your team sh all do the rest if they're good.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

hmm maybe that is why i have lvl 7s on Maokai Morgana Sona

and i play support as main and tanky cc tops and junglers and when i do adc i have lvl 6s on Ashe Caitlyn Varus

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

you'd love zac. build full tank and divebomb the enemy team. unless they have a filthy stinkbombing gragas it works every time.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

im sure.. im dont care to jungle to much... believe it or not i find jungler more stressful then support ... at least in support i can give majority of my focus to that lane...

as a jungler i just feel so just ARGH cuz no one knows how to just let me get one fukin item before they start spam pinging for help

its like i have had so many games as jungler i cant get to the 2nd buff ( still 1st clear ) with out someone spamming the help ping and its typically always the lane im further-est from

i remember for a while i would use nunu and take ms quints and take w 2nd and rush boots so i can just fly all over the map lol soooo fast ... and take ghost with the summoner spell cdr mastery

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

support zac is surprisingly effective as a peel and counterengage champ. level one blitz hook just tap e and turn the fight around in your favor. of course max eqw like normal (most people think his q is poke so max that but his e range scales with level so it's the best first max) for sustain obviously wqe first then into eqw because of his w resets.

in jungle zac is the king of level 4 tower dives because of that passive he can get away with the dumbest moves imaginable and still be useful as the enemy spends a full minute trying to kill him. who needs items, just grab a bami's and mobi boots and go ham on the enemy.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

play simpler mechanical champions, tanks, supports, do a few key things and your team sh all do the rest if they're good.

support are some of the most mechanically intensive champs there are.

i mean.. item actives?

item 2045item 3364 item 3222 item 3190 item 3401 item 3800 item 3157 item 3069 item 3092 item 2043

i mean when i play morg one of the reasons i get item 3157 item 2045 item 3092 item 2043 item 3364 as my ONLY actives is because there is no way i can handle item 3800/item 3190/item 3143 on top of all that

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

ok bad example. I would have once upon a time said taric but he's a bit harder now. a champ like braum is pretty good because all he really needs to do is stand in front of key squishies and press e to keep them safe. possibly alistar? ult and stand in the teamfight. zyra and annie have really good zone denial that doesn't need to worry about minions coupled with good kill potential.

my point still stands there is always a way.

also for the convo below on last hitting as ap champs the mastery in the cunning tree that adds on hit damage to minions is really nice for early to midgame because it turns an average 50-60 ad into almost 80 for farming which is far more of a buffer.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Weird mechanics and game knowledge feel like the same thing. o.o

Hmm Idk feels like you need game knowledge to understand and perform mechanics or decision making.

I think by game knowledge you should say decision making. And decision making can get you farther than mechanics more reliably.

There's quite a bit of challengers who simply got there because they have great decision making skills but tend to admit that they would like to play some champs they don't touch them because they want more reliable and concrete things to use from the start.

There's definitely nothing wrong with lacking mechanics, your lack also means you'll be less likely to try for some big play and fail which mechanical players can suffer from.

ActualJohnStamos1 votes

Mechanics, Game Knowledge, and Decision Making are all different. Game Knowledge is knowing things like, cooldowns of the champions abilities, damage of them, cooldowns of summoner spells, things like that. Mechanics, for example, are things like shooting a basketball with correct form. Decision Making is exactly how it sounds, knowing when to fight, when not to, whether to get tower or dragon or baron, things like that.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Idk mechanics and decision making are different, but game knowledge goes hand in hand with them both.

You have to judge based on your knowledge what is a good time to roam, steal something from the enemy, or judge if you can get more benifits from doing something or not with decision making.

While mechanics to get mot benefit you gotta know you and enemies' CDs, damage, and points of power so you don't get overzealous.(Which is why usually death is more mechanic player prone than decision making) while actually landing the skills how you want to.

Game knowledge is just the overreaching part of both types and is not really seperate from them.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i think if someone could repair my nerve damage and pinched nerve that makes my left arm/hand numb and have bad dexterity i would be better mechanically

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cmupZQNh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-01T01:51:39.753+0000)

i think if someone could repair my nerve damage and pinched nerve that makes my left arm/hand numb and have bad dexterity i would be better mechanically

i don't have that issue, but that's kind of my point.. mechanical skill is a physical limitation between what you want to do and your ability to input that command into the computer, either by clicking the correct spot with your mouse or hitting the correct keys; and is something that in "most cases" can't really be improved upon.

where as game knowledge can easily go up with playtime ( if you spend your time trying to improve it) and can fluctuate with balanced changes during patches.

now that i think about it.. it does seem that it "might" be possible to measure "mechanical skill" based on how many times you can do the exact some thing without messing up.

game knowledge is going to be a lot harder to measure

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

I am bad at mechanical champions because I have a physical impairment. So I play mechanically easy champions and focus on the metagame.

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cmupZQNh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-01T01:54:55.749+0000)

I am bad at mechanical champions because I have a physical impairment. So I play mechanically easy champions and focus on the metagame.

i main Nidalee and i find landing skillshot extremely easy.. but i find last hitting with autos VERY hard on AP champs, and i cant ADC to save my life.

one of the reasons i got into playing league from starcraft 2 was .. i could not control everything at once.

where as in league i only need to control 1 champion.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

WOOO! Starcraft 1 vet. I hurt my hand a couple years back tho.

Boulderox1 votes

it's not just that, look at lcs, that pros have AMAZING macro play (team), but many have weak micro play (alone), i believe it was voyboy that said it but don't hold me to that.

SwiftKitten881 votes

what on earth have i started XD

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

http://ib1.huluim.com/show_key_art/5341?size=1600x600&region=US

we could start a gaming academy lol

SwiftKitten881 votes

woah i did not expect to see this thread bumped again XD

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