But with the addition of the new support stat (that still doesnt have a simplified name yet) a full build Soraka's heal will be increased by roughly as much as GW decreases them, evening out to her healing as much as if you hadn't bought it. Considering how well she synergizes with certain tank items (
) on top of it , "just kill her first" doesn't exactly work either. So what beats her now?
Darkdemon6532 votesHow is Soraka getting Censer, Redemption, Crucible, Warmog's, and Vow?
Bouncemaster Zac2 votesHow is Soraka getting Censer, Redemption, Crucible, Warmog's, and Vow?
How would she not be? What's stopping her exactly?
Starcraft243ver1 votesHum, idk. the fact it's a 6 item build maybe ?
Kneelbeforezoth1 votesthats 5 items boss, Not everyone follows the build a sightstone method and ive had alot of games where they would build sightstone but not boots and just global heal
archerno12 votesthats 5 items boss
+boots. How long should a game be for support like Soraka to get gold for 5 items? Its not like she is getting some cheeky kills like Sona or Karma. Not to mention she would have to sell her Sightstone.
Bouncemaster Zac1 votes+boots. How long should a game be for support like Soraka to get gold for 5 items? Its not like she is getting some cheeky kills like Sona or Karma. Not to mention she would have to sell her Sightstone.
Or sell her support item since the gold gen won't be relevant at that point and the stats are sub-par compared to whatever given replacement item.
archerno11 votes[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckuUFhPU,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-03T14:26:15.385+0000)
Or sell her support item since the gold gen won't be relevant at that point and the stats are sub-par compared to whatever given replacement item.
Well every (decent) Soraka uses 
which is both Sightstone and Gold gen item in one. Not to mention if she gets 5 items + boots she wont have slots for control wards. Her team needs to be so far ahead for her to be brave enough to risk so much vision for those items. And if she is so ahead then her heals dont really matter that much.
TyrekGoldenspear1 votesCough, actually many Rakas (Including me) Swapped to the spell thief line for better mana regen and poke. Plus we get access to a slow 
or just more AP for better heals 
Both are completely valid paths.
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesWell every (decent) Soraka uses
Nobody in solo-q forgoes their 6th item to buy control wards, believe me. But yeah I forgot the hybrid item exists too, so that gives her and extra slot to build some beef or more +heal power items.
Kneelbeforezoth1 votesnot every single support builds boots every single time when i play sona i dont build boots early if at all soraka same thing
Starcraft243ver1 votesSo you mean 1 passive item applying grievious wound counters 4 passive item slots from soraka and her keystone ?
Seems fair for me
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesSo you mean 1 passive item applying grievious wound counters 4 passive item slots from soraka and her keystone ?
Seems fair for me
It doesn't and it isn't. A single Soraka who has stacking the +heal and shield power buff can make her entire team immortal with Locket, Redemption, Ult and there's no real answer to it.
Starcraft243ver1 votesfocus 1 ennemy at a time so her zone heals are way less efficient ? play 1 3 1 so her zone heal are less efficient ?
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesfocus 1 ennemy at a time so her zone heals are way less efficient ? play 1 3 1 so her zone heal are less efficient ?
Focusing one enemy doesn't work when her heals take 3-man focus to kill the target faster than she keeps them alive. 1-3-1 splitting doesn't work when her team can 5-man shove into your 3 man and dive them with ease because towers are worthless.
archerno11 votes[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckuUFhPU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-03T13:49:34.732+0000)
It doesn't and it isn't. A single Soraka who has stacking the +heal and shield power buff can make her entire team immortal with Locket, Redemption, Ult and there's no real answer to it.
If her team is so far ahead that she can afford all those items, then there are different issues. Also u are not calculating properly. If she heals 1000 (in theory) Grievous wounds reduce it to 600. If u get somehow 40% increase to healing/shields. It will reduce it by 40% from 1400 which would be , i believe, 840. So it still doesnt negate GW.
StoryDuck1 votesAn early 
counters Soraka until she can build multiple items. As late game damage is measured in 1000s by the time she has those items her allies are getting blown up in 1-3 seconds (often less) making her heals useless. Soraka has late game impact by the placement of her E which has a very high CD. If you lost to a soraka its because they got ahead for the mid game. She is one of the best champions for snowballing because her healing prevents you from getting kill and catching back up. She can be countered with a single item and if you make it past her mid game her heals will rarely make a big difference unless your team has low late game damage. Soraka is a great pick against a tank heavy team as their damage is low so her late game will be very good. Against 3+ high damage champions her healing is easily overwhelmed in late game and she might have time for one W + R at those damages (weaker too due to GW, you can work math and a Lulu E + R is far superior to saving allies as it can't be reduced by GW). Building her tanky only makes her healing weaker.
There is a reason Karma and Lulu have a higher pick rate then Soraka and that is because shields cannot be reduced by GW. Soraka is measured in power based almost entirely on her healing power. (Good raka players can maximize plays with E though) If you crunch numbers an early GW item makes Soraka a non-entity in early game and negates a large portion of her mid game. Late game she becomes even weaker due to high damages where as shielding supports have more value in protecting allies.
If you don't believe me. Play soraka. Try playing against an ADC that buys a BF with first back, and an ADC that buys Exe Calling and a longsword in first back. You will notice the huge difference in how powerful Soraka feels regardless of Soraka itemization.
Try soraka against a team with 3 tanks and try her against a team with 2 assassins/divers + ADC.
She has clear weaknesses and any game I win with soraka always involves the ADC not buying Exe Calling in first back. If they do? Well, I hope I get carried as I just maxed W so 40% less healing means my heal that cost 10% of my max health only heals for 120 now instead of 200, it's like I'm 2 levels lower now. That's a huge difference in healing power. Also, ignite reduces healing with GW so you can start level 1 with GW. Soraka has a really hard early game.
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesAn early
There is a reason Karma and Lulu have a higher pick rate then Soraka and that is because shields cannot be reduced by GW. Soraka is measured in power based almost entirely on her healing power. (Good raka players can maximize plays with E though) If you crunch numbers an early GW item makes Soraka a non-entity in early game and negates a large portion of her mid game. Late game she becomes even weaker due to high damages where as shielding supports have more value in protecting allies.
If you don't believe me. Play soraka. Try playing against an ADC that buys a BF with first back, and an ADC that buys Exe Calling and a longsword in first back. You will notice the huge difference in how powerful Soraka feels regardless of Soraka itemization.
Try soraka against a team with 3 tanks and try her against a team with 2 assassins/divers + ADC.
She has clear weaknesses and any game I win with soraka always involves the ADC not buying Exe Calling in first back. If they do? Well, I hope I get carried as I just maxed W so 40% less healing means my heal that cost 10% of my max health only heals for 120 now instead of 200, it's like I'm 2 levels lower now. That's a huge difference in healing power. Also, ignite reduces healing with GW so you can start level 1 with GW. Soraka has a really hard early game.
Early GW is great against her. Later on she can single-handedly make her team nigh immortal provided they've built even the slightest amount of defense so they don't get annihilated. A Soraka with two bruisers in front of her is just as dangerous as her showing up with a whole team. I just finished playing a game against Soraka with my entire team being strong damage dealers and her healing outstrips late-game damage if you don't kill the target instantly. This is my issue. Either you 100-0 them in a second, or she 0-100's them in under a second. No in-between. As for the tank build making her heals weaker: 
plus the right rune set-up lets her push 3k hp with slightly over 100 Armor and MR late game and still invest in +30% heal power. Just drop your no-longer-gold-efficient starting Coin item for a stats item later on.
As for Karma and Lulu being "better." Are they more popular? Yes. Are they better? Objectively no. Soraka outstrips them both in winrate by 5-8%. (Karma is on a pathetic 45% WR, Lulu is at a not-so-good 48%. Soraka is at 53%.) She's better than both of them. Objectively. Sure, you can't reduce shielding, but shields don't have a 100% uptime and you can whittle people down through them. You can harass them down. You can wear them out over extended fights. The only way to beat out Raka's healing is, as I've said, to absolutely oneshot the target so fast she can't click W. Otherwise all the damage you deal just vanishes. I just came out of a game where she was putting out 700 hp Ws against targets that had Grievous applied to them.
She no longer has "clear weaknesses" when she outstrips her supposed weaknesses through numbers alone. Her heal amps are bigger than the reductions.
chipndip11 votesAs a support, you shouldn't expect a six item build in most games. Also, you can just focus mana regen to get hp regen via Crucible. It'd be cheaper as well. Your paranoia over "tank" Soraka...I ain't seeing it. You may just have an issue with Soraka, period.
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesAs a support, you shouldn't expect a six item build in most games. Also, you can just focus mana regen to get hp regen via Crucible. It'd be cheaper as well. Your paranoia over "tank" Soraka...I ain't seeing it. You may just have an issue with Soraka, period.
I do have an issue with Soraka period, that's the point of the thread. The new support stat pushes her numbers so high that she no longer has a meaningful counter.
chipndip11 votesGW or "kill her". Simple. Is Soraka supposed to be half a champ ALL GAME from GW alone?
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesGW or "kill her". Simple. Is Soraka supposed to be half a champ ALL GAME from GW alone?
...you didn't read the post at all did you? GW and "kill her" used to be how you beat her. Now neither of those works.
chipndip11 votesExcept they do if you actually do those things.
Craig1 votesAn early
It doesn't: http://puu.sh/wAAXw/92f7c43c90.png - I just had a Xayah recall at 4:00 to get an EC and the lane (and game) was still effortless: http://puu.sh/wAAYD/0bfdcbb320.jpg
StoryDuck1 votesThree questions:
Were you camped by enemy jungler?
Did she max Q first?
How was the recall timing?
If you were camped, her assist score is easily upped by just playing AFK heal robot. Regardless of what her impact is she can just throw a heal on someone and get an assist. Also, if a team is ahead as a whole it's easy for all players on that team to have very high KDA. To be fair, I think it is unhealthy for Soraka to be able to play so passively and she should require more interaction as a champion.
If she maxed Q first, you didn't lose lane because of her healing, you lost to her damage. I do this often as Soraka of late because her W is so easily countered with Exe in lane. Going back too early (at 800 gold) allows her to max Q in response but if you back at BF timing she will likely have already put 2-3 points in W making it a valued purchase. Also, Soraka can disrupt Alistar really easy with her E preventing the flash knockback (I consider Soraka a counter to him as she can really mess up his all in)
If the recall timing was poor it could have put you behind in both experience and CS. In this situation you put yourself in a bad spot as they hit 6 before you allowing an all in. GW or not the difference between level 5 and 6 is huge. Once they get a lead and are snowballing any champion becomes insane. Soraka in particular is great at snowballing. I would argue she is the best snowballer in the game because she can heal so much when ahead. A fed Janna is similar in that her shield and ult really protects her carry its just that Soraka has better scaling for mid game.
AlienPrimate1 votesHealing is the only thing Soraka brings to the table though. How is it an issue that a champion who takes 15k damage and does 4k damage (guesses) per game heals for 30-40k?
Your argument is like saying armor is bad against AD champions because they just build more AD to even out the damage.
Bouncemaster Zac1 votesHealing is the only thing Soraka brings to the table though. How is it an issue that a champion who takes 15k damage and does 4k damage (guesses) per game heals for 30-40k?
Your argument is like saying armor is bad against AD champions because they just build more AD to even out the damage.
This issue is a Champion countering their own counter, which she does. And that analogy is fitting actually, since it's true. Armor is- worthless against AD champs since eventually damage and pen outstrips armor to such a degree you may as well have not built any. Champions countering their own counter. Have you noticed only two tanks are even viable right now? And one just got nerfed. And the other is permabanned. So honestly, no tanks are viable. 3 carry + 2 support comps are the way to win right now.
AlienPrimate1 votesI really hate when people say they may as well not have built armor. I assume you play Zac. Would you rather die in 20 auto attacks or 5 auto attacks when you are tanking?
