Never have I thought to myself when playing Mundo "I'm prone to being bursted by magic damage."

HateDaddy··68 votes·3,625 views

This change just feels lazy, poorly thought out and could potentially serve as a lethal change to certain team-comps (AP heavy comps). While I'm not necessarily opposed to that, don't we already have a bunch of anti-AP champions and spells? How does this actually help Mundo? I think Mundo might even be low key broken right now but that's neither here nor there because I have very little to back that claim, just intuition.

However, this does nothing to actually meaningfully change Mundo for the good. Why don't you give his ult some new concept like grevious wounds resistance or a cleansing of grevious wounds if he's able to land his cleaver or something. That's honestly mundos biggest issue, you buy EC and Morelos and Mundo doesn't really have an ult anymore. Give him a meaningful way to deal with that while you including some form of "mini game" with his cleavers.

62 Comments

C9 Squeeky 37 votes

It's not that he was weak to magic, Riot just wanted to give him more of a niche role, similar to how you might play rammus vs an AD-heavy team comp. Though some might say Galio is a better anti-magic tank. Mundo needs a rework but it's not a bad buff by any means.

YumaS2Astral16 votes

Mundo has always been good against magic damage. And on my opinion despite old Galio being "anti-magic damage focused", Mundo was actually a better anti-magic damage champion (of course, with the rework, that is a different history).

This is because Mundo just synergizes so well with item 3065.

Also, ADs can rush item 3123 and ruin Mundo's life. AP's only option for GW, item 3165, only does that when the enemy is under 35% health, and Mundo is almost impossible for an AP to bring down under 35% (at least when alone).

Also, not only ADs have superior anti-tank tools like item 3153, but many of them have superior sustained damage and ability to deal with tanks and bruisers. Almost all AP champions fare poorly against tanks and bruisers, save a few mages like Brand or Malzahar. They also have less options to deal with tanks.

Finally, ADs champions can itemize to have sustain on their own item 3812 item 3072 item 3153 - AP's best bet for sustain is item 3146 which is mediocre on most AP champions and has a horrible build path for them. Few AP champions have sustain on their own, compared to AD champions.

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

Exactly!

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Does borks %current hp dmg do physical or magical damage? If it's magical this new change will help combat bork against him

Steelflame2 votes

Physical. Lifesteal also applies to Bork damage, unlike most on-hits.

LegacyDAP2 votes

The buff is honestly pretty bad, it only lasts like 2 seconds from my knowledge and doesn't scale to well. However, a buff is a buff so it's definitely not that bad.

C9 Squeeky 3 votes

it lasts as long as he's taking magic damage or paying a health cost. Idk the tick rate but I'm sure using W as a health cost ticks faster than once every 2 seconds.

LegacyDAP1 votes

Oh seriously, I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip.

Ralanr22 votes

How about we don't give the stat stick champion a way to counter his only weakness by pressing a button? Especially since GW is mostly for his ult rather than his passive healing (which gets hit by it anyway).

Let's not beat around the bush. Mundo needs a full VGU and the only thing worth keeping is his Q.

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

How about we don't give the stat stick champion a way to counter his only weakness by pressing a button? Especially since GW is mostly for his ult rather than his passive healing (which gets hit by it anyway).

Let's not beat around the bush. Mundo needs a full VGU and the only thing worth keeping is his Q.

I don't really consider Mundo a stat stick since he has direct counterplay and much of his gameplay relies on him landing cleavers. His ult certainly has poor interaction, therefore it's justifiable for a poor interaction to counter his ult. I think you can do some adjustments to it and give it more gameplay while also reducing GW's impact on him.

Ralanr5 votes

Isn't his direct counterplay basically, kiting, dodging, and buy GW because you're probably not going to outburst his healing?

Feels rather stat sticky to me.

Ahristocats6 votes

how is mundo stat checking?

his Q is almost all his power, it deals 25% current hp and slows someone making mundo able to stick to them since the width nerf to 80 from 120 mundo is not stat checking

there is a reason he's getting buffed instead of reworked

Ralanr7 votes

Mundo's Q is the only thing in his kit that isn't stat checking imo (and maybe his E). His passive, W (with changes that didn't go through) and ult all rely more on having high numbers than his opponent to be effective. Specifically his health regeneration stat and health pool needs to be large to make his W, passive, and ult worthwhile and the only counter to those is basically buying the anti stat to them.

You cannot play around his health regeneration. That's stat checking to me.

C9 Squeeky 4 votes

buy item 3123 and you win. Cut his healing. It's really that easy.

Ralanr14 votes

Yes and that's why Mundo is a problem. His entire basic design is cut off by a cheap item. No champion should be made so ineffective to what they are meant to do by one item (and before ADCs complain about Tabi, towers don't have Tabi. You guys are meant to take those).

Mundo needs a design that doesn't hing on whether or not his opponent buys GW or not. Say what you want about other drain or sustain designs like Vladimir Swain and Warwick, at least they don't automatically fall apart when the enemy buys GW.

Vladimir can provide a damage boost to his team and his escape isn't exactly made less effective with GW.

Swain offers hard CC and good magic DPS.

Warwick: Fear CC and suppression.

DrMundo: Just a big ball of meat that literally anyone else can pull off without having to rely solely on whether he can outheal people or not.

That's another thing, Mundo barely has any control, any agency over his healing. Outside of his ult, it just happens. Mundo should be given more control on how he heals if he's going to be a regen monster.

C9 Squeeky 2 votes

Mundo just doesn't offer his team anything except a big health bar, which we stated can be largely negated unless picked vs magic comps, since you need to be 35% for morello's GW to kick in and Mundo will ult long before that.. I'd pick Maokai over Mundo any day. He needs a VGU.

Ralanr3 votes

Yes, exactly. That is my argument.

DunkinNoobs4 votes

{quoted}

No champion should be made so ineffective to what they are meant to do by one item (and before ADCs complain about Tabi, towers don't have Tabi. You guys are meant to take those).

You're absolutely right. But in the case of Mundo, that item is not item 3123 item 3076 or item 3165.

That item is item 3153 item 3151.

I've played way too much Mundo the past few seasons; I'm up to 270k mastery on my main now. And as bad as Grievous wounds is for Mundo, %HP damage is much, much worse. His reliance on a large health pool and large amounts of healing makes him exceptionally vulnerable to %hp damage. The champions that build these items also tend to be sustained damage champs in general, so they melt Mundo doubly fast. You know what's worse than having your healing cut by 40%? Getting hit by 7 botrk procs in 2 seconds because the enemy adc is Lucian. Mundo can deal with grievous wounds if the enemy team doesn't have overwhelming DPS to back it up; these items more than fit the bill, as do the champs that tend to build them. Whenever Vayne becomes meta, I have to just bench Mundo until the meta changes because her combination of %hp damage on W, %hp damage on Botrk, and her constant repositioning on Q with stealth makes it impossible for me to do my job. Just having Botrk be popular is enough to make me stop playing Mundo, although I will say I very much enjoyed the lethality adc meta we had last patch. Most champs are terrified of being burst down by a Jhin with Duskblade, but not Mundo.

It Hertz When IP5 votes

You say that like getting item 3153 AND item 3123 is out of the question. If I'm an ADC facing Mundo, sure as hell I'm getting both.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

That only works on a even or behind mundo. If Dr Mundo gets AHEAD the amount of healing he puts out is so high that cutting it in half doesn't do anything since you still won't out damage it. This change is still not going to make him good since, despite being durable against burst mages, he still does nothing to them and brings nothing to his team besides being a very lackluster Juggernaut. He has no hard CC and gets kited for days and has to flank to have a chance at hitting the backline which as a "tank" for your team is a terrible place to be since that means you aren't actually protecting your team from engages.

Mundo still has one of the worst laning phases out of the juggernauts (its honestly on the levels of Nasus almost) and any little amount of MR makes his cleaver hit like a wet noodle which is where most of his damage is.

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

item 3123 is a viable early item vs mundo before he can get ahead. His laning is fairly weak so it shouldn't be that hard to get ahead and stay ahead unless you're going full tank build. But Mundo now has to be careful to even AA you while he's ult'ing if you have a item 3076, in which case he should just run away until he's fully regen.

Ahristocats2 votes

that's like saying yasuo is stat checking because he only has one skill shot

doesn't make sense

Ralanr3 votes

That's because skillshots are not the only way for outplay. Yasuo's E allows him to outplay and get outplayed by others.

And Yasuo has two skillshots.

PB4UAME1 votes

Yas has 1 AoE pass-through skill shot with 2 potential forms of itself, 1 targeted ability, 1 ground targeted ability and 1 conditional, auto targeting ability, where is the second skillshot you speak of?

Also, kiting alone offers far more counterplay to Mundo than exists to counterplay Yasuo.

Not to mention, you can literally body block and walk away from everything Mundo has. . .

Ralanr1 votes

But Mundo also lacks outplay tools beyond his Q.

FearlessCreator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckdmbmmX,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T16:46:11.954+0000)

how is mundo stat checking?

his Q is almost all his power, it deals 25% current hp and slows someone making mundo able to stick to them since the width nerf to 80 from 120 mundo is not stat checking

there is a reason he's getting buffed instead of reworked

You obviously don't know what stat checking is. old garen used to stat check people and his winrate was still low. just becuase a champ is weak doesn't mean they arent stat checking.

Ahristocats4 votes

no YOU don't know what stat checking is i don't care about how weak mundo is

if he misses Qs in 1v1 he will lose it, his Q has too much power in it, deals 25% current hp and slows, he will get kited by everyone if he misses it, and bruisers will shit on him if he misses them if they build item 3123 item 3076

FearlessCreator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckdmbmmX,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-27T23:14:52.046+0000)

no YOU don't know what stat checking is i don't care about how weak mundo is

if he misses Qs in 1v1 he will lose it, his Q has too much power in it, deals 25% current hp and slows, he will get kited by everyone if he misses it, and bruisers will shit on him if he misses them if they build item 3123 item 3076

Nope. Mundo runs adcs and the like down diving under turrets if he is even with them.

Ahristocats4 votes

yes in bronze

in d1, mundo missing Q means lose

FearlessCreator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckdmbmmX,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T23:30:22.570+0000)

yes in bronze

in d1, mundo missing Q means lose

Yes and mundo is extremely kitable like garen which is why he isnt as good in higher elo also

PB4UAME2 votes

If his problem is kiting and the only way for him to not be kited is landing a skill shot. . .

Then where the unholy fuck are you getting "stat check" from that gameplay pattern?

Is Fiora hitting four vitals now also stat checking?

Skorch5 votes

Honestly we needed more AP strict tanks, we only really had Galio

While for AD there was Rammus Malphite AND Taric

DJMason883 votes

How many times have you seen a full AP team? Much more teams are heavy ad then heavy ap. Besides, mages are already bad at bursting down tanks anyways.

Escheton4 votes

Clearly you have never played Mundo in ARAM.

HateDaddy34 votes

{quoted}

Clearly you have never played Mundo in ARAM.

It's a good thing we don't balance the game around a randomized atrocious pit of degeneracy, otherwise known as ARAM.

AwesomeGuyDj7 votes

Atrocious, Random, Abasement, Madness. (abasement was the only degeneracy synonym that began with an A)

A Violet Raven2 votes

Abomination would work.

CØulrophobia3 votes

How about giving his cleaver an option to stick to the target they landed on, then if Mundo attacks a target with a cleaver on its back, he picks it up much like Olaf and he returns the cooldown. Or a target hit with cleaver has different interaction with his abbilities.

I Main Swain2 votes

the only thing i think when i play mundo is "man my ult feels like complete crap since riot put grievous wounds on so many items"

TotalJerk2 votes

This buff seems stronger against DPS mages than burst, tbh.

Chaos Milk Tea2 votes

Mundo's ult should some other meaningful effect so that it doesn't get so fully nullified. Simply having it cleanse egregious wounds would be just as problematic as egregious wounds itself.

Durzaka2 votes

I agree completely.

I don't know who at Riot though that Mundo excels at being an anti-mage tank any more than he excels at being an anti-ad tank.

The only thing ive ever thought as Mundo is "Im sure glad any AD character can spend 800g to fuck me all game. And every AP character already builds item 3165 in their core build"

Ionian Vulpix2 votes

Mundo counter who he pleases.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Iunno. While the changes might make him OP, I like the concept of mundo burning himself and getting something out of it. MR was probably just the wrong thing to give him.

Kayge2 votes

http://prntscr.com/g1b8ss This honestly seems like something a troll would write with fake buffs to a champion. Like. It makes no sense? Mundo already plays significantly well into mages, theres no need to make him even stronger into them

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

Why don't you give his ult some new concept like grevious wounds resistance

Idk cause gw is the only thing stopping him from healing 2/3 of his hp :-?

Automated Riven1 votes

Not like cho-gath starts with 160% of his HP before the fight even starts?

Tobias Brackner1 votes

It's a neato tool for Mundo to have, not the end of the world. Also people are really overblowing how effective item 3165 is against Mundo.

Even item 3123 into item 3033 is dedicating an entire item slot to hurt one champ's ult. On top of that, Grievous Wounds doesn't kneecap Mundo like how people keep on trying to imply. It just means you have to play a little tighter.

Dataless1 votes

E max Dr Mundo into top lane Cassio, the dream.

Glory ln Death1 votes

The patch notes go through this pretty clearly - the change wasn't to help him against burst magic damage, but against sustained magic damage, which was much more effective against him.

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