if sated state apply on hit effect twice

UdoIkOSc4u·Jun 26, 2015·21 votes·52,278 views

does that means that with every aa botrk will deal 16% current hp?

154 Comments

RiotMeddlerJun 26, 201513 votes

{quoted}

does that means that with every aa botrk will deal 16% current hp?

Yes.

Earl EulrichJun 26, 20155 votes

while I think that the max-stack transformation is definitly the right way to go for devourer...flat out doubling the effectivness of on-hit really seems to be over the top (and not only because yi will reach 100%ban with those changes). Allowing spellvamp to procc on on-hits will already solve a lot of the problems actually, all that´s missing is maybe 1-2 tiems that are not just as+effect, but kinda add a little more "flavour" to the on-hit mix - maybe even defensive focused items. Though the biggest issue stays the same: if you build AA-focused Crit will always outperform on-hit eventually, so either you overtune both (as you apparently are willing to do currently, ignoring the fact that despite having a "tank-meta" currently "tripple-threat" reigns supreme in pro-play, as dmg just outscales defense very hard throughout the game already) or you finally take a good look at crit... Edit: not to mention that it´s very questionable to basically make on-hit builds jungle-only...

TrogdyrJun 26, 20155 votes

Please don't put the item in the current state into Live... way too confusing and op.

AarekkJun 28, 20152 votes

How do you know if it's op if you're confused by it?

Raise The GnarJun 28, 20151 votes

And his name is TrogDyr XD someone is clearly a Trick fan

TrogdyrJun 29, 20151 votes

Not sure how this ties me to Trick. I'm an Udyr main and "Trogdyr" is a play on "Trogdor" from Strong Bad/HomeStarRunner....

TrogdyrJun 29, 20151 votes

I'm not confused at all by it. "On hit effects" is a broad generalization. That part in addition to the "every other" will be confusing for your average League player. Its not going to lead to "strategic diversity" since Sated will stack well with only a handful champions/build paths. That's my opinion FWIW.

EnosetcJun 27, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Yes.

J U N G L E V A Y N E B O Y S

rememberbigsmokeJun 27, 20151 votes

Even if Vayne could somehow work in the jungle, all this would do is create 2 rings every second autoattack instead of 1. It wouldn't double the damage if your third autoattack got the sated proc somehow.

3TWarriorJun 27, 20153 votes

wouldn't it add to the counter twice, allowing her passive to hit on two autos instead of one?

SICKNÈSSJun 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Even if Vayne could somehow work in the jungle, all this would do is create 2 rings every second autoattack instead of 1. It wouldn't double the damage if your third autoattack got the sated proc somehow.

What you're ignoring is the fact that you would only need 2 auto-attacks to proc Silver Bolts. Which would increase DPS quite a bit. First attack applies one ring, second attack applies a second ring and since it's the "another" attack, it procs phantom hit, which applies a third ring and procs Silver Bolts.

MathbalnaseJun 27, 20153 votes

Yep.

Most on-hit damage with Sated: +50% damage per average hit

Vayne W with Sated: +33% damage per average hit

Still stupidly powerful.

RCIXJun 27, 20152 votes

Actually, wait, does it double the damage of onhits, or does it run procs a second time? If so, is there a delay? Inquiring, mechanics knowlegeable minds want to know!

woobeeJun 27, 20155 votes

MasterYi item 3153 item 3718 item 3074 item 3071 AWW YE

Philbo BagginsJun 27, 201515 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solis Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cWj6rbA8,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-06-27T09:33:28.866+0000)

AWW YI

Fixed that for you

LoLKiruJun 26, 20152 votes

Yeah (as the above poster said its % current hp, not max)

We should assume for now, unless theres some hard coded exceptions, any and all onhits will proc twice.

Double lifesteal every other attack, Double true damage for Yi, etc

(that reminds me, are Warwick's slashes during his ult counted as basic attacks? I ask because they apply onhits)

This will definitely be a REALLY interesting item.

RiotMeddlerJun 26, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Yeah (as the above poster said its % current hp, not max)

We should assume for now, unless theres some hard coded exceptions, any and all onhits will proc twice.

Double lifesteal every other attack, Double true damage for Yi, etc

(that reminds me, are Warwick's slashes during his ult counted as basic attacks? I ask because they apply onhits)

This will definitely be a REALLY interesting item.

The phantom attack on sated Devourer's a bit more specific than other on Hit abilities. It only applies on basic attacks, so things like Warwick ult, Ezreal Q, and GP Q that aren't basic attacks but do apply on hits won't trigger the phantom attack. They will still apply the normal Devourer magic damage on hit of course.

Lv69 WaifumancerJun 26, 20152 votes

How will they work with Yi's passive and Irelia's Q

1Ferdinand1Jun 26, 201518 votes

{quoted}

The phantom attack on sated Devourer's a bit more specific than other on Hit abilities. It only applies on basic attacks, so things like Warwick ult, Ezreal Q, and GP Q that aren't basic attacks but do apply on hits won't trigger the phantom attack. They will still apply the normal Devourer magic damage on hit of course.

Do you want bet Aatrox will have a bug?

RaathAug 10, 20151 votes

gp q is a basic attack

CimmeJun 26, 20151 votes

that means in theory , that Braum would only need 2 attacks to trigger his passive

Ariel the CruelJun 26, 20152 votes

Braum And you called me troll when I went top.

TheRakkunJun 26, 20153 votes

So it's basically a nerf to Warwick in general, as he mostly uses his R to apply onhit damage from his items before finishing them off, and now that devourer doesn't scale infinitely (In practice) his ult is weaker than before/

I was hoping for something more out of this, I urge you to rethink the whole "Abilities not procing it" maybe it might break some champs, that can be fixed, just don't give us another Runglaive which basically ruined AP Mage jungle viability.

Aria ValkyrieJun 26, 20152 votes

The phantom attack on sated Devourer's a bit more specific than other on Hit abilities. It only applies on basic attacks, so things like Warwick ult, Ezreal Q, and GP Q that aren't basic attacks but do apply on hits won't trigger the phantom attack. They will still apply the normal Devourer magic damage on hit of course.

?? did you even read what Meddler said? He still gets the on-hit damage, just no phantom attack, so it's not a nerf at all.

NinjaFiferJun 27, 20152 votes

He's saying that it doesn't scale indefinitely, since it stops at 60 damage. WW (primarily a farming type jungler) isn't going to get as much damage later in the game, while staying the same early on.

GixiaJun 27, 20151 votes

Except he doesn't stay the same early on, because now every second AA will still trigger the 60 damage twice (plus any additional on-hit effects if he purchased, say, a Wit's End or something). At the end of a long game it may be less damage than the potentially infinite damage it had before, but early on it's still a larger power spike than before.

NinjaFiferJun 28, 20151 votes

Meh, at the point that he gets the double hit, it's too late in the game (or he's fed) to the point where he needs to (or can, if fed) 100-0 a squishy with the ult, hungering Strike and an auto or two. The extra damage every other auto attack just does not come early enough to make up for the extra damage he would be getting later game. It might be a small buff to his mid game, but his late game took a pretty huge hit, when it wasn't even that good to begin with.

GixiaJun 28, 20151 votes

It triggers at 30 stacks. That is most certainly not too late in the game. If 30 stacks is too much, the what hope do you even have of getting late enough into the game to get a relevant amount of stacks on old Devourer?

NinjaFiferJun 29, 20151 votes

So if 30 stacks isn't late game, then how many stacks (and how much damage on his ult, by extension) is WW losing as the game goes on?

As I said, it's the same until it becomes sated, then you get a mild power spike, then you start losing effectiveness compared to live. If anything, the earlier that cap comes, the worse it's going to feel for WW.

They took away the extra scaling to give it the phantom strike, so WW, pretty much the only devourer's jungler that isn't AA reliant, isn't going to scale with it as much anymore.

Only Play DariusJun 27, 20151 votes

So, will champs with abilities that modify their next basic attack, like Poppy Darius Garen Rengar Nasus essentially have the damage from the ability doubled if it lands with a phantom proc?

SaltyKrackaJun 27, 20152 votes

No.

RiotMeddlerJun 27, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cWj6rbA8,comment-id=00010001000d,timestamp=2015-06-27T01:02:14.882+0000)

So, will champs with abilities that modify their next basic attack, like essentially have the damage from the ability doubled if it lands with a phantom proc?

No, those abilities will all be unaffected, since the normal auto attack will consume the buff in question. This is basically two auto attacks back to back, where the second one has no base damage and therefore only applies on Hit effects. Things like Nasus Q, Sheen etc therefore apply to the first auto attack, get consumed, and aren't around for the second attack.

Phoenix Kotori Jun 27, 20154 votes

Will Shyvana Q and MasterYi passive trigger 3x on-hit with this then?

RaathAug 10, 20151 votes

no but master yi will stack up his passive sooner just like vayne or gnar

CrettJun 27, 20152 votes

Elise with Rappel buff... would an auto from this deal 200 + 120% AP?

Ooh, with nashor's and arcane blade that'd be 230 + 160% AP...

Raise The GnarJul 29, 20151 votes

I've actually been playing a lot of Elise with Devourer lately and it is very strong. Devourer will proc her passive damage so when you E it does basically quadruple your damage output for a few seconds. The build I use makes he basically a glass cannon but she can duel any AA based champion like an ADC, or any champion who has used the base of their combo. I.E. amumu after he ulted me left me with around 200 hp but I managed to survive and pick up a double kill before dying. The build I use is the following: item 3931 item 3020 item 3115 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 but you can swap out the VS for situational items such as item 3023 item 3151 item 3285 item 3116 item 3152 . This is my Devourer Elise build. You can also go Runeglaive or Cinderhulk Elise but I like going Devourer Elise because its the most fun for me. :D

ChromeFluxxJun 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, those abilities will all be unaffected, since the normal auto attack will consume the buff in question. This is basically two auto attacks back to back, where the second one has no base damage and therefore only applies on Hit effects. Things like Nasus Q, Sheen etc therefore apply to the first auto attack, get consumed, and aren't around for the second attack.

I saw on Surrender@20 people agreeing that this sated affect would make vayne's w hit 2 times in one auto. Is this true?

QuadradactylJun 27, 20152 votes

I am testing it right now and it does work with Vayne and Jax. I am recording all of my tests :P

ChromeFluxxJun 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I am testing it right now and it does work with Vayne and Jax. I am recording all of my tests :P

If Nasus's q doesnt work with it then how does jax w work with it o.O they're both empowered auto attacks.

Raise The GnarJun 28, 20152 votes

He's talking about the 3rd hit Passives of Vayne's W and Jax's Ult.

Here's a list of every champion with on-hit effects that WILL proc with the new Devourer: Aatrox Braum Corki Chogath Diana Elise Ekko Fizz Gnar Irelia Jax Kalista Kassadin Kayle KogMaw Lulu MasterYi MissFortune Orianna Rumble Shaco Teemo Tristana Twitch Udyr Varus Vayne The majority of these champions SHOULD/WILL have some on-hit effect in their kit that procs Devourer. There are a few others that i'm not sure about because of the way its coded like Ashe, Kennen, Amumu, Draven, Fiora, Jarvan, Rek'Sai Xin Zhao Nami and Riven*

*How would these 4 work with their 3x AA buffs? ( RekSai Q, XinZhao Q, Nami E, and Riven Passive) If you had all 3 buffs left, would the devourer proc, whilst using up one of the AA buffs? I know the Xin Q isn't really a buff but would it proc the Knock-up faster?

Let me know if you think I missed something, or need help figuring out why a champ is on this list. :D

GrandlichJun 29, 20151 votes

Would this work with Masochism on Mundo?

Raise The GnarJun 30, 20153 votes

I don't think it does because I saw it said somewhere "The Phantom Hit isn't a basic attack, just ALL on-hit passives made into one." and since Masochism only boosts Mundo's AD I don't think it will affect Devourer.

headmasterappleJul 27, 20151 votes

wait why does it not apply to TwistedFate e?

Raise The GnarJul 27, 20151 votes

It doesn't apply to TF's E because it works like a Nasus, Rengar, or Poppy Q. In that its an single hit buff, meaning that if he has E ready to proc, then the original AA will consume the buff and therefore not apply to the Devour proc.

Government NameJul 28, 20151 votes

Ekko was the first champion I tested with the new devourers and it DOES NOT WORK.

Raise The GnarJul 29, 20151 votes

It does work in that it proc's his passive faster. :D It doesn't work if you're trying to make it double proc his E.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20152 votes

How does sated work with things like Poppy Q, Shyv's Q, Vayne's W, and Jinx's rocket Q?

SICKNÈSSJun 27, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cWj6rbA8,comment-id=00010001000f,timestamp=2015-06-27T02:50:37.843+0000)

How does sated work with things like Poppy Q, Shyv's Q, Vayne's W, and Jinx's rocket Q?

Okay, I'll talk about Shyvana later, but let me try and explain a few things and hopefully they sound simple enough: Abilities such as GP's Q, MF's Q and Ezreal's Q give you access to the "on-hit passives" pool, so to speak. They're not The on-hit passives.

Let's take this example: Miss Fortune (or Ezreal) has Wit's End for some reason and she (he) casts a Q. That Q will have the 42 magic dmg from Wit's End's passive, but the Q itself is not the on-hit passive, it's just a way to access it. Phantom Hit does exactly the same thing, it applies the "on-hit passives" pool every "other" basic attack. Things like Poppy/Nasus'Q/Sheen/Triforce get procced and consumed on the basic attack, so they're not applied to the Phantom Hit. Jinx's Q is just a modified auto-attack that deals more dmg, has splash and greater range. It's not an on-hit passive.

Shyvana, on the other hand, is a very interesting case. Her Q applies 2 basic attacks, both of which have on-hit properties (access to the "on-hit passives" pool). Which means that, if:

You use a regular AA and then Q (applying 2 more basic attacks), you will apply one Phantom Hit and your next AA will also proc a Phantom Hit.
You would apply on-hit passives 4 times in a quick succession - one from first AA, two from Q and one from the Phantom Hit. Your second AA will also apply 2 on-hit passives - one from the AA and one from another Phantom Hit.
Assuming Phantom Hit applies the "on-hit passives" from Shyvana's Burnout (W) and Flame Breath (E) that's a *hitton of damage.

Throw Wit's End and/or BotRK in the equation and we're talking insane (ALL on-hit passives are applied SIX times) dmg just off of an AA>Q>AA sequence.

Celeste BenalJun 30, 20151 votes

Empowered AAs get no benefit. In the case on Shyv and Yi, their passives will trigger one additional time every other AA, thereby reducing the cooldown on their respective Qs. Vayne will get extra True Damage procs because silver bolts will stack faster. Jinx pow-pow should stack up faster. The splash damage from Fishbones (10+0.50AD) is an on-hit. So the aoe damage dealt by fishbones should increase. But not basic attack damage nor crit damage.

Also, item 3085 bolts deal on-hits, as does item 1043 . item 3153 and item 3091 both build from Recurve Bow. Life steal is an on-hit. So lifesteal will be increased by 33% when Sated Devourer is also built.

I'm very curious to see the interaction between Runaans, sated devourer, fishbones, and item 3042 .

Mr TimJul 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The phantom attack on sated Devourer's a bit more specific than other on Hit abilities. It only applies on basic attacks, so things like Warwick ult, Ezreal Q, and GP Q that aren't basic attacks but do apply on hits won't trigger the phantom attack. They will still apply the normal Devourer magic damage on hit of course.

Is there an interaction with Fiora's ult with the sated devourer? (Every other strike of the ulti applying on hits twice or anything)