Syndra Should Not Be Able To Grab Daisy because Daisy is actually needed

The Ecdysiast··15 votes·1,714 views

Malzahar Voidlings are not central to his damage/cc and multiple can be spawned. Annie Tibber's summon is the actual ability, and does damage while applying her passive right when it is activated. The remaining pet is not central to Annie's strength. Ivern Daisy does nothing upon activation except for a long cast animation that makes a Q-R combo impossible. Daisy needs to be around to hit someone three times to be used. Mordekaiser Dragon cannot be picked up despite being more powerful than Daisy and having a much longer leash.

Daisy is counted as a champion for the purpose of Ivern's E and Q and tower targeting, but also coded as a minion for Syndra's W? That interaction is lopsided at best.

Though with that explanation, this doesn't even seem to be an intention of Syndra's W. It's not like Syndra can outright negate Tibber's summon by grabbing him as soon as he's spawned. So maybe I should report this as a bug.

23 Comments

cleverusername825 votes

[deleted]

The Ecdysiast1 votes

She doesn't need the W nerfed. Daisy just shouldn't count as a minion when she counts as a champion for all of Ivern's kit.

Incarceration3 votes

Holy shit, you people just won't stop with Yasuo.

Heroquet1 votes

Yeah, wasn't expecting that either xD

Valderis Vandala2 votes

I really doubt Riot cares about a single ultimate interaction like that when stuff like Wind Wall exists.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Except that they do, otherwise they wouldn't have coded it to be allowed despite the fact Ivern's champion-only Q and E can be cast on her.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

Let's not pretend to know what's in their minds. It's also possible that its a natural outcome of the underlying code and that Ivern's abilities are the special cases for Daisy because its in the same kit.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Which is something they would have tested, considering there are only 7 pets in the game that can be targeted.

DrCyanide4 votes

Daisy is a retextured copy of Old Blue, a mob Syndra can pick up, with a three hit passive. From a Syndra's perspective there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to pick Daisy up. Contrast that to Morde's dragon, where the base monster can't be picked up.

Syndra's interaction with Daisy is incredibly similar to her interaction with Heimerdinger's Ultimate Turret. Neither do anything on summon, both are shut down by being grabbed, and both are upgraded versions of things Syndra's allowed to pick up.

As frustrating as it is for Ivern, "it counters me hard" might not be a good enough reason for it to change.

Nameless Voice2 votes

Heimerdinger

His turrets are his main source of damage and far more central to his kit even than Daisy is to Ivern, yet Syndra can just pick them up and toss them under her tower, from outside their range, to instantly remove them from the game. With an ability that has a much shorter cooldown that Heimer's turret charge rate at all stages of the game.

Ackelope1 votes

What about Sion ? He pushes turrets around as well, right?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Key point: Turret(s)

He can easily summon more than one, while Syndra can only grab one at a time. Give Ivern two more Daisies, and it'll be a reasonable comparison.

SchmidttyGames1 votes

Someone hasn't had their ass whooped by a fed Tibbers yet. Something to look forward to, I guess.

Espy Psyche1 votes

There's also the part where SYNDRA TAKES DAMAGE FOR HOLDING TIBBERS.

Literally. Tibbers has a Sunfire passive. If a Syndra picks up a Tibbers, that Sunfire passive does a fair amount of magic damage to her over the time she holds Tibbers, unless she throws the bear immediately (which lets it out of stasis).

If you're Syndra, chances are that you don't want to hold an enemy Tibbers, unless you've grabbed it from beating on YOU. If it's beating on your tank, let it, because you take more damage from its aura than the tank does from its autos.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

My point was exactly that you don't want to hold onto enemy Tibbers, so it doesn't matter that you can. By the time you can grab Tibbers, Annie's already gotten that large AoE, damaging stun off on your team.

But Daisy doesn't come in with a bang like Tibbers does. In fact she comes in with a cast time that makes it impossible to do a Q-R combo without her already being out.

Incarceration1 votes

It's Syndra. She's overpowered and must remain overpowered.

Calabok1 votes

Yasuo should be nerfed. also syndra. and tibbers. and that big walking plant thing.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Maokai ?

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

Eh yeah but at the same time Syndra is basically the hard counter to all minion-play characters, so her being able to flip Daisy is to be expected.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Nah, daisy ain't special with regards to ways to get rid of her. She's only special in regards to allowing Ivern to do things with his abilities.

Her status isn't ment to protect her from anything, only to enable Ivern to do some extra stuff.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

She isn't meant to be removed by Syndra's W, otherwise Syndra's W would be able to completely negate Tibber's summon stun+damage as well.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

Heimer tower?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

What about them? They can be easily replaced.

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