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It's not Wukong. Pull your heads out your arses!

Radiant Wukong··11 votes·2,954 views

Wukong has only been nerfed for 6 seasons. No buffs.

Runes reforged and duskblade changes don't count as buffs.

Wukong has been under the radar for the past 5 seasons, don't throw him under the bus because you don't like how new items interact with his kit. Those those items under the bus. Which is what this post is about.

If Wukong isn't in a healthy balanced spot it's because decoy works well with item 3147 item 3078 item 3095 throw an electrocute in and GG! and has nothing to do with Wukong himself.

Check boards history. For 6 years, any board posts made about Wukong has been saying he needs buffs and emphasizing how he falls short in every role and is useless outside of a bruiser/team fight build. Or a 1for1 sacrifice to take out the enemy carry.

Now, suddenly without Wukong receiving any buffs, people are calling him broken and op. Don't try to trash can my favorite champ or get him reworked because RIOT released those stupid ass items.

Nothing is wrong with Wukong. Tell RIOT to fix their freaking items and don't tamper with my champion!!!

63 Comments

Quinzley9 votes

Introducing duskblade was a mistake. They shuold nerf it heavily.

Radiant Wukong3 votes

Exactly! It's like the idiots that created it completely forgot Khazix was a fucking champion in this game.

Illabethe3 votes

Yeah it has nothing at all to do with Wu Kong's built in 10-30% Armor reduction on opponents + Sudden Impact.

Radiant Wukong4 votes

Except that he's had that for 6 seasons lol

Illabethe5 votes

Maybe, but he didn't have

V8.6 Stats Attack damage growth increased to 4 from 3.2. Crushing Blow AD ratio increased to 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% AD from 10% AD at all ranks.

Decoy Decoy Stealth reclassified as Twilight Shroud Invisibility.

Almost literally every change to Wu Kong has been a massive buff.

There has only been 1 nerf to Wukong : Increased cooldown on his R..... way back in Season 2.

There's also the fact that Riot has gradually increased potential AD by about 40% since Season 6. Runes really boosted AD totals, and item 3053 didn't used to exist. Transcendence, etc has really boosted output, and they increased his AD scaling on Q by 40% AD. AND his AD growth.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

The wiki you just ran to get that information is lacking context and you only pulled info that was beneficial for your argument. Everybody can see all the changes made and people know why. Good try. I've already done my homework though.

Illabethe5 votes

Why? Because it was concurrent to item 3147 damage nerf? Sorry. 40% Increased AD on Q is not the same as the additional 55 damage lost from Duskblade.

40% AD on Q in mid/late game is equivalent to 120-160 additional damage, increasing the output by some 65-105, and unlike Duskblade damage... this can CRIT.

Eedat1 votes

Who builds crit on Wukong?

Illabethe3 votes

It's called item 3095 and it has the highest win rate of all item builds on Wukong.

Eedat1 votes

Thats odd because all the websites I checked dont even have stormrazor listed in his builds at all

http://na.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/top

http://champion.gg/champion/MonkeyKing/Top

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/MonkeyKing/Top/

The only one that does is lolalytics and it has low pickrate and isnt the highest winrate item.

Anywho, you are mistaken if you think Wukong's Q can crit. It functions the same as a Draven axe. Only the base auto attack can crit. The additional damage cannot

Illabethe2 votes

It's cute how both the OP and Lolalytics puts Stormrazor in the build.... Probuilds puts it into 15% of builds. And it has a 66% win rate, only surpassed by item 3078 .

And yes. Q DOES interact with crits. Read a wiki before countering.

Crushing Blow is a one-use on-hit effect. The triggering attack will apply other on-hit effects and can critically strike as normal. As with most on-hit physical damage, the bonus damage from this ability will apply life steal. This will trigger upon structures and wards (save for the debuff). Critical strikes will interact with the bonus damage from Crushing Blow. Riposte parry blocks both the damage and the debuff of Crushing Blows, and Aegis Protection block will block the damage of Crushing Blow but not the armor reduction. Blind icon Blind will avoid the damage but will not consume the attack buff. Banshee's Veil item.png Spell shields will block the damage and debuff.

The reason it's a low pick rate is simply because it joggles from a 3rd or 4th item, not a first or second one. That by itself results in low pick rates.

P.S. Champion.GG also has it as a 15% pick and many pros are running it.

RookPusher7 votes

Looks at title Looks at username

"Thanks for your input."

Radiant Wukong2 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

RookPusher4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8cyA9qo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-02T16:52:51.422+0000)

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Hey, man. I was pleasant. I'm happy the Kong is on top. But he's ruining lives with this build and it needs to stop. I said the same about Kha'Zix and Rengar when they were one-shotting people.

Quinzley1 votes

{quoted}

Hey, man. I was pleasant. I'm happy the Kong is on top. But he's ruining lives with this build and it needs to stop. I said the same about Kha'Zix and Rengar when they were one-shotting people.

So maybe we should remove the items that create the problem?

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

So maybe we should remove the items that create the problem?

If it were the items, then why isn't anyone else seeing the same benefit?

Radiant Wukong1 votes

This is a meme, right?

RookPusher1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8cyA9qo,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-02T18:05:28.652+0000)

This is a meme, right?

No.

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-meme-2483702

Platinum Corki2 votes

you obviously don't get the point of the post, its about the items, not the champion. You talk as if we don't agree with you that Wukong isn't beating people up now.

RookPusher1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Platinum Corki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8cyA9qo,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-02T17:48:37.687+0000)

you obviously don't get the point of the post, its about the items, not the champion. You talk as if we don't agree with you that Wukong isn't beating people up now.

I'm not. I'm talking like my second post which said "If it's the items, why isn't J4 doing the same thing as Wu-Kong?"

Radiant Wukong1 votes

If J4 comes from the FoW and EQAA he does the exact same thing as Wukong. So does Talon, Rengar, Shaco (who does it without item 3095 ) Kayn, Vi, Lee Sin, GP, Quinn, Reksai

RookPusher1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8cyA9qo,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-02T18:09:26.330+0000)

If J4 comes from the FoW and EQAA he does the exact same thing as Wukong. So does Talon, Rengar, Shaco (who does it without item 3095 ) Kayn, Vi, Lee Sin, GP, Quinn, Reksai

Well then don't nerf the items, I play J4!

Kidding. But if that's true - and I'm not seeing it, what I'm seeing is Wu do it, and is now the top Top laner - then yes, nerf the items.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

I forgot about Pyke , he can reset duskblade in the middle of combat like Wu and Kha.

Illabethe5 votes

It's really about the champ. Wu Kong has built in Armor penetration.

ACTIVE: Wukong's next basic attack within 5 seconds gains 125 bonus range, deals bonus physical damage and reduces his target's armor for 3 seconds.

BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 (+ 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% AD) ARMOR REDUCTION: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30% of target's armor Crushing Blow resets Wukong's autoattack timer.

Coupled with penetration items this amounts to a FULL reduction of Armor, sometimes even putting it negative.

item 3071 + this skill = 54% possible Armor reduction, up to 34% of it coming up front.

And then you have item 3147 item 3142 .

If wu starts out Duskblade, and a champ has something like 75 Armor, what they actually have is 52.5. And then Duskblade alone drops that to

34.5 Armor

That's almost armorless in one item. If he gets to item 3142 at 75 Armor, that's 16.5 Armor.

At 16.5 Armor, you have 14% damage reduction.

Even if you have 200 Armor, Wukong effectively can reduce that to 36 Armor.

Armor doesn't work vs him at all.

And then you look at what his ult does after all that armor reduction.

Cyclone EFFECT RADIUS: 162.5 COST: 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 120 / 105 / 90 Cyclone ACTIVE: Wukong spins his staff around for up to 4 seconds, becomes Silence iconDisarm icon pacified and gains 5% - 40% (based on time active) bonus movement speed. Reactivating Cyclone cancels it immediately.

The spin deals physical damage to nearby enemies every seconds. Enemies affected by Cyclone for the first time are briefly Airborne icon knocked up.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE PER SECOND:» 20 / 110 / 200 (+ 110% AD)

If he has about 250 AD (point where game starts picking up) His level 6 Ult does 295 damage per second, or 1,180. That's huge for early game....especially vs a target he eliminated armor on. On Level 16 Wu, , he's closer to 400 AD, for a 2,560 damage spin.

Again..... huge damage for all the armor penetration he has.

We've always had Armor penetration/Lethality. What we didn't have was Electrocute doing 30% more damage than Thunderlord's , vs virtually no armor.

His problem is he's not just a Solo duelist or a Team burster. He's both. Solo he can almost 100% eliminate Armor. Team he can eliminate armor on the most problematic champ, and then spin for 2,560 and clean up the rest (of whom will also get massive armor reduction/penetration because of item 3071 )

This is why Talon and Zed generally have more counterplay. They don't have built in extra armor pen/reduction. Although annoying and often high kills, they are beat by the rules of numbers. Wu Kong isn't.

Sleepcoma1 votes

what about kai'sa killing people with 2 void seekers from 3000 range?

OtterlyLost5 votes

I feel for you, I do, but they're probably going to nerf him. I know because I play a champion that they like to nerf when her items are strong instead of addressing her items or the champions around her. Everytime tristana has been strong it's literally only because her items are. She herself rarely receives buffs and when they are buffs, they're shit ones like raising the ratio on her E.

I'm sorry but they're going to rework or nerf him and then rework him.

Radiant Wukong4 votes

For once I'd like the problem to be handled at its source. It's like they release a new item, then nerf the champions they have great synergy with it.

Amusingly, Ezreal has been abusing item 3025 for centuries and his interaction with the item still hasn't ever been addressed.

Nobody cares that a Gangplank can literally rush item 3078 item 3095 and knock your skull off your face!

Or the ridiculous amount of Arpen Darius item 3071 item 3036 has.

None of that matters, we just want to take a huge stinky poo on Wukong!

OtterlyLost1 votes

Honestly I wish they would too. They always let ezreal get away with shit especially for ages and ages just because he's popular. GP and Darius both also fall into that category of super popular and never having their waaaaay too strong item interactions addressed.

I really hate it because this method of theirs is what has Tristana in the place shes in now. :( because they turned around and finally addressed her items but completely ignored the fact that they had previously nerfed her.

woodvsmurph1 votes

item 3074 item 3071 item 3812 item 3053 item 3026 Have you tried a build like this on wukong? Or sub in triforce for cleaver if the enemy is all squishies. It seems troll and removes a bit of 1-shot potential due to lower pen, but makes up for it by increasing durability, letting you shove lane competitively w/o wasting all your mana, and makes you sustain pretty well in teamfights and duels.

I haven't done it on wukong, but it did it with panth before and it worked quite well. Even when I was the focus of the enemy team's damage. And I suck at playing pantheon. It's a totally different style, but I think it could work if you got used to how it works. It also gives you some nice hp to back up that wukong passive which gives you resistances. And the build order is pretty flexible... but i'd get tiamat fairly early for lane priority.

Sleepcoma2 votes

darius doesn't build either of those... he takes conqueror and rushes triforce into steraks. if darius is ever building lord doms there's definitely something wrong. darius is also a melee champ with 0 mobility and no defensive abilities. he gets kited by literally everything in the game

Radiant Wukong1 votes

You've never seen Darius against a Malphite Sion Leona Jinx Swain

Sleepcoma1 votes

darius is a natural counter to tanks and melees in general. not sure how hes good against jinx if he cant ever get in range to pull, which should never happen

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Point is, there's 4 tanks in that comp. You build BC and LDR to shred them and let your allies focus the Jinx.

At no point did I ever say Darius should be charging the backline to dive a Jinx.

chipndip14 votes

Think of it like this: All fighters/assassins shouldn't pay for Wu Kong's sins. This very same thing occurs with a lot of champions, where changes to the game environment put them in a place of power, rather than changes to them. Doesn't mean that a fed Wu Kong isn't infuriating, and the issue is that the super 1-shot variant is the only variant of value, so he either snowballs to hell or he dies trying.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Wukong has no sins. The sin is in the items.

If they released an AP item that gave a bonus for single abilities hitting multiple champions like +50% damage per effected champ.

Due to the item and Nami being able to abuse it with her W and R, would it be fair to nerf your precious nami because she can abuse it? Or would you prefer that item be addressed?

chipndip14 votes

OBVIOUSLY I'd prefer an item nerf over my champ being nerfed, but it doesn't matter because, sometimes, it's one or two champs that are strong with a given thing, rather than the item/rune making a lot of champs that are using it super strong. It depends on the situation. If one or two champs are an edge case, they'll nerf them. If an item has a more general effect on the game, they'll nerf the item.

The fact that you take it so personally shows you shouldn't even be talking on the subject.

Illabethe4 votes

Duskblade lost about half its damage. He's still 1 hitting with it. And yeah. it is him.

His Q allows him duration Armor penetration. That's stronger than any of his itemization.

Radiant Wukong2 votes

So do Shaco, Talon, Rengar, Kayn, GP, Zed, Vi & Pantheon.

DON'T FORGET Khazix ! God forbid you're isolated with a Kha around. Duskblade or not, he can instagib with just a hydra and youmuus!

GP can knock off a 3rd of your max HP health per Q during laning phase by rushing item 3078 item 3095 , nobody is complaining about that.

Illabethe4 votes

Shaco : lost a substantial amount of damage on his Passive, and his new Q buff is highly restricted. You can build armor vs him.

Talon Requires full 3 hit combo to proc passive to really kill people. rarely 1 hits at all without his ult. One of the biggest feeders among assassins.

Rengar : Armor Destroys him. I 1 second pop him with a Morgana .

Kayn Doesn't actually 1 hit unless a specific vulnerable build (Shadow assassin, Front loaded, easy to kill).

Gangplank I can't recall the last time he ever killed me. The potential was there but IE was a nerf to him, and it takes 3-4 items for him to get dangerous...

Zed Predictable kit, uses his entire kit, and sucks vs tanks because again..... he doesn't penetrate armor.

Vi You're kidding right? She's like the 60th ranked champ who is a permanently at risk. Her first hit might take 60-70% off an adc if fed. doesn't kill in 1 hit.

Pantheon Also kidding? His kit is avoidable, slow moving, and requires his entire kit.

Khazix got a HUGE nerf to his passive, at the same time as Duskblade nerf. Not near as scary as he was, and he had counterplay. Once he misses he's yours.

Platinum Corki3 votes

Like you said, he's one of the few underplayed champions that is still sortof viable but isnt played because of his nerfs, and obviously there are about 25 champions that are more busted to play, so then someone figures out oh wow wukong is badass with this item, and suddenly is really good, but hes good not really good, another champion like him is heimerdinger.Heimerdinger

ay sorry to hear though that your champion is getting thrashed, I know the feeling >.>

saltran3 votes

I don't fking care about why he's strong, a good example is Ezreal and how he wasn't strong until the Clepto release and suddenly he needed nerfs because he was too strong with it.

SarlonDubious3 votes

Did you really need to make an entire post about your comment in that lethality thread?

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Yes... yes I did. I've literally been defending Wukong nonstop on these boards since the introduction of Duskblade and then RIOT makes it worse by throwing out Stormrazor.

remakoro3 votes

Cmon dude. We dont have enough damage that you can dish out instantly. I really hope they will release another item that will synergize well with item 3147 item 3095 and mb item 3078 ofc everyone will be happy to see every champion nerfed for that. And then absolutely everyone gonna be running around with that shit. One that lands AA first wins.

La Bello3 votes

I mean even without the new items WuKong is long overdue for a rework and even the rioters agreed (IIRC back when class updates were a thing he was a popular candidate for a dive-fighter class rework).

His gameplay is extremely binary. E>Q>Spin2Win. The only way he really see's success over generally is when he goes assassin and just obliterates squishies in 0.5s. W Decoy is such a bad mid-combat ability and works so wonky that its really only used as a poormans Shaco Q to get into position for initiation from FoW. his passive hilariously....lazy

Yes I do agree that the ridiculous damage creep is making him more oppressive than usual but Riot doesn't choose to rework a champ or not based on winrate and there was talk about doing work to WuKong for years now.

Koechophe3 votes

Wukong is unfortunately a champion where, if he's strong, he feels utterly stupid to play against. Everything he does is point and click, and he can unload his whole burst combo before you can really even react. A champion where "Don't get in his dash range" is the only counterplay (who has a stealth too) is pretty unfortunate. Wukong is fine if he functions purely as a bruiser, but assassin wukong is not fun.

Fact of the matter is, he's been top of the charts in win rate for a while now, and he is highly disruptive to play against. Doesn't matter how he got there.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I wouldn't want nerfs for wukong, but to say he's fine isn't exactly true. he needs a rework.

koochario1 votes

Wukong got compensated for Duskblade no? The Talisman changes really helped his JG too. Idk if he's OP but he's certainly annoying to face due to his stealth-R teamfight power. I don't think he's as much of a problem in Diamond+ but just like WW got nerfed because players refused to adjust to his fairly predictable gank paths and windows of power, he may get the same treatment. I believe in objective balance, not hand holding so if he's not actually OP, I don't want to see him nerfed. They should probably increase his skill cap though. It's way too easy to be effective on him when snowballing.

Illabethe2 votes

He's one of the only champs in the game who can almost entirely or in some cases make Armor Negative on an opponent.

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