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Question for Wukong/Vlad mains... ?

option paralysis··17 votes·2,163 views

I decided I'm going back to my roots and gonna bring back the old monkey king and blood lord top lane again. I was a support main, but since I demoted from d2 to d5 with literally unwinnable games and my 50k Soraka heals didn't matter jack shit, top lane again it is. I have a lot of games on Wukong, about 350k mastery and on Vlad about 180k, but I didn't play them ranked this season at all. My question is what build and runes do you use right now ? Runes for Wukong were 15 ad, 9 armor, 12 mr, but recently I switched to lethality marks. And Vlad is pretty standard with ap, magic pen, hp/lvl and 20%cdr/lvl. I built on Wukong since always, ravenous hydra, I like the lifesteal and waveclear, then ghostblade - duskblade - cleaver and last item is situational on the game. I've seen people just build full lethality cleaver without hydra... but then your waveclear is trash, however more dmg on squishy targets. Soooo, what do you build ? Vlad build is pretty standard, but my issue with Vlad is that he needs time to scale and Idk how to pressure your lane early game when everybody just runs away from your empowered Q.

Any advice is appreciated.

39 Comments

Eedat9 votes

I've mained Wukong since season 3 but I'm only G4 so i dont know if you'd want my advice.

Here's how my lane Wukong build works.

  • If I'm snowballing, I'll rush item 3142 first because its a cheap early powerspike. item 3074 is nice early, but be its 600g more expensive overall and the build path doesn't provide the same raw AD as the item 3142 buildpath. If I'm still snowballing heavily I'll build item 3074 second

Keep in mind that Wukong scales extremely heavily with raw AD. This means he snowballs very heavily with kills. The item 3142 rush is to snowball. If you dont feel confident, just get item 3074 first because its a much better overall laning item.

  • item 3074 is amazing on on Wukong because it solves two of his major issues which are sustain and waveclear. When/if I build this in lane is situational. If I'm going even in lane and I'm getting pushed in a lot I'll buy it first. Or if I'm facing a champ with a lot of built in sustain themselves.

  • item 3812 I would build this every game over item 3074 if Wukong had decent waveclear. DD is better in every situation other than pushing. This item is amazing especially because I value CDR very highly on Wukong. Hands down better than Hydra if you don't need the extra waveclear.

  • item 3071 I used to consider an absolute core 2nd item on Wukong before they changed it. The buildpath is abysmal on Wukong because you're sitting on only 15 AD from Phage until you complete the whole thing. The armor pen was also nerfed not too long ago. It does give a lot of great stats for Wukong. Like I said earlier, I very highly value CDR on Wukong. The HP is more efficient because you get some armor/mr from your passive. Keep in mind though that Wukong's passive is more or less completely useless in the laning phase. I wish they didnt nerf the flat AD on BC so much. The armor shred passive synergizes extremely well with Wukong's kit.

Overall I still build item 3071 in most of my games. It's very situational as to when. Normally 2nd-3rd item. If I'm really snowballling and my team isnt feeding an enemy that can delete me, I'll skip BC

  • item 3026 I find myself building this a lot as a 3rd-5th item. If you're ahead, the BF sword pickup is a huge amount of power because of how well Wukong scales with flat AD. He's a diver so the completed GA revive passive is amazing. This is a great item for Wu.

  • Dont forget you can pick up an early item 3155 if you're having trouble in lane. item 3156 is actually a quite good item on Wukong if you need the MR, but I normally wouldn't finish Hex into Maw until a 4th-5th item.

  • As top Wukong, I never build any boots other than item 3047 item 3111....... item 3009 are pretty shit in general and item 3158 arent worth it IMO. You are a melee diver. You are going to take damage and be focused to some degree no matter what. Its not the same as playing a glass cannon mage. Keep that in mind

You have to keep in mind that you are still a diver. If you build glass cannon because you're very far ahead, but your team mate is feeding the enemy Syndra, you're going to get locked down, exhausted, and blown up in team fights. Keep in mind that glass cannon Wukong is better played as a split pushing assassin rather than a team fighter if there are fed enemy carries. If the threat level is relatively low though you can absolutely decimate entire teams. This is why I generally build Wukong slightly off-tank most games unless its a stomp.

An example build if I'm a bit behind would look something like this (in order):

item 3074 item 3071 item 3742 item 3156 item 3026

An example build if my team is doing just OK:

item 3142 item 3074 item 3742 item 3026 item 3156

An example if I'm snowballing out of control:

item 3142 item 3074 item 3812 item 3026 item 3071

An example build if Im getting absolutely crushed (Tank Wukong):

item 3071 item 3742 item 3194 item 3193 item 3026

I build at least two damage items before I consider buying a tank item. Full tank Wukong is complete trash unless you got absolutely demolished early and dont have a choice. If you get crushed, still grab item 3071 first so you can at least spin cleaver stacks on the enemy team for your other carries.

Obviously you can swap out item 3742 for an MR tank item depending on what damage you're taking.

#Items I DON'T like:

item 3078 SUPER expensive, CDR is nice, extremely strong early in a 1v1, falls off heavily mid/late. Tri Wukong is fun but its more of a gimmeck like Triforce Darius. It can work but if it doesnt you're fucked. Super cheesy and risky. Your burst is pretty nuts with just a E>auto (+tri proc)>Q (+thunderlords) though

item 3072 Just NO. There is absolutely zero reason to ever pick this over Hydra or DD. Just dont.

item 3147 This item really isnt bad to be fair. I think its just slightly worse than item 3142. I wouldn't pick this up over Youmuu or DD ever, but I definetely don't consider it "bad" on Wukong. Might just be personal preference.

item 3153 Dont.

item 3193 Wukong with no damage is complete trash. You have to be ridiculously far behind to consider tank Wukong

item 3053 Meh. Keep in mind you have a .8 BONUS AD ratio on your E and Steraks only gives base AD. Wukog also doesnt have fantastic base AD to begin with for this item to multiply

If you want I can go over lane matchups too

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

item 3147 This item really isnt bad to be fair. I think its just slightly worse than item 3142. I wouldn't pick this up over Youmuu or DD ever, but I definetely don't consider it "bad" on Wukong. Might just be personal preference.

If u take item 3147 its not instead item 3142 , but along.

Eedat1 votes

Not a fan of full Lethailty Wukong. Maybe before Lethaility got nerfed, but not now. You can still delete squishies with item 3074 item 3142 item 3812 but you have much higher overall survivability with this build

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Was doing something similary to this when i started lol. And whatched Allorim item 3074 item 3142 item 3071.

but i think u delay "ur getting cdr", and without cdr ur lacking of survivabilty and burst. I mean during many sec u are naked and useless. Teamfight usualy start before u finish ur 3rd items (before its usualy skirmish). But yeah when u have 3 item with Wu, u delete any squishy... unless they build item 3812 or and item 3026 [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Eedat1 votes

Allorim doesnt play Wukong anymore really unfortunately. His guide hasnt been updated since like preseason :/

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Wukong didn't change so... i don't think he really need to edit it... U can still watch his old video (the marathon is great). Btw even high Wu Euw players don't otp him once they reach M1 (Akabane, NInja wukong...). Except Mad maybe.

Eedat1 votes

A champion doesnt have to be directly changed to be changed. Meta's shift, other champs are buffed/nerfed, and new items can really shake things up

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

yeah... but Wukong kit is too binary.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Pretty accurate. Something to else to note is that Wukong is very versatile when it comes to builds. He has his core items of course and there are the items that just don't stack up to other options, but he has a wide range of items that can work well with him. Hell, item 3193 can work if you can work around the active well enough. I'd like to think that part of learning Wukong is knowing what items work best with your play style and knowing what items to get for which kind of situation.

option paralysis3 votes

Thanks for all the advices guys! I went to play Vlad in normals a bit and I got my first Vlad pentakill today. LOL

Wafflessssss2 votes

I could be wrong but it seems like wukong isn't really the best right now. I played him for a bit a he has a lot of bad matchups, especially against popular top laners. But as far as builds right now people seem to like to builds him as a teamfighter / assassin and that works pretty well if you're ahead. But with the kind of matchups he has it can be hard to get that lead.

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

I play lots of Vladimir in Ranked. I think he's better Mid because he can roam with Ghost.

I do 12/18/0 Thunderlords with 10% Scaling CDR in Blues, rest standard AP. You don't need 20% in Runes because you can get the rest of the 30% from CDR AP items very easily.

I run full damage build, 2 CDR items (pick 2 from item 3152 item 3102 item 3157) into item 3158 into item 3285 into item 3089 into item 3135 (item 3135 earlier if you see MR being set up)

item 3116 isn't very good any more (damage and burst too low), you can stick to target simply with Ghost, the ProtoBelt and Stormraiders

In Top you just kite and poke at the other laner with Qs, land whatever Empowered Qs you can (generally avoid using E to poke, its very weak early and health-wise expensive). When he's low enough, wait for Crimson Rush... E charge > Flash > E pop > Empowered Q > chase to kill (using pool and autos if necessary; Ult somewhere in there if you've got it); in low elo this will be an option maybe half the time. If the enemy's skilled enough to avoid most of your damage you simply farm and scale.

Solidarius1 votes

question about E charge and flash, why when I use it on vlad my flash cancels my E?

I am doing something wrong?

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

question about E charge and flash, why when I use it on vlad my flash cancels my E?

I am doing something wrong?

Its not supposed to cancel. You hold E down (but don't let it go) while you hit Flash and let go after. It doesn't work?

I've done it plenty of times. Its essential for securing crutch kills in lane.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byv1V9cv,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-18T06:22:00.152+0000)

Its not supposed to cancel. You hold E down (but don't let it go) while you hit Flash and let go after. It doesn't work?

I've done it plenty of times. Its essential for securing crutch kills in lane.

It catches most people by surprise, most believe you were trying to use it on a minion instead.

Solidarius1 votes

Thats the thing everytime I hold E down then Flash, it does not work for me, maybe my settings are messed up or I have horrible luck and flashing just as the E is done channeling idk, I also have problems with E,W combo ):

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

Thats the thing everytime I hold E down then Flash, it does not work for me, maybe my settings are messed up or I have horrible luck and flashing just as the E is done channeling idk, I also have problems with E,W combo ):

Hmmm... I recommend spamming it in Practice Mode (with instant cool downs setting).

if it does not work, I dunno... maybe contact Riot about it?

It works 100% of the time on my games and its essential to playing Vladimir I feel

Solidarius1 votes

exactly what I did, thankyou it works, im just bad cries

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

exactly what I did, thankyou it works, im just bad cries

Mastering the W + E combo is even harder.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

According to Reddit, the highest Winrate Vladimir build is to take Ignite rather than Ghost, and run 18/0/12, building item 3152 into item 3136 into item 3158 into item 3151 into item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 .

Zhonya's is better generally than Banshee, because Zhonya + Pool will make you invulnerable for the time it takes for your ult to pop and give you the heal.

Taking Ignite rather than Ghost helps you secure early kills, and you don't really need Ghost that much to avoid ganks so long as you're not overextending, because you have pool.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

According to Reddit, the highest Winrate Vladimir build is to take Ignite rather than Ghost, and run 18/0/12, building item 3152 into item 3136 into item 3158 into item 3151 into item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 .

Zhonya's is better generally than Banshee, because Zhonya + Pool will make you invulnerable for the time it takes for your ult to pop and give you the heal.

Taking Ignite rather than Ghost helps you secure early kills, and you don't really need Ghost that much to avoid ganks so long as you're not overextending, because you have pool.

Personally don't like Ignite, Ghost is just too important in team fights for mobility and engage. If you want additional kill pressure, I'd rather go 12/18/0 while keeping the Ghost.

The "pros" (veteran Golds or higher) won't generally die to a Vladimir in lane anyways (he's not meant to be a snowball champ). Against those guys, taking Ignite will hardly tip the scale. If you are playing in low elo where you can reliably kill the other person, you don't need Ignite to achieve this (but I'd say Ghost is still important for team fights).

The build is decent but you'll be playing with only 20% CDR for the mid game unless you put more CDR into runes.

Project omen2 votes

Vlad main here, D4, currently #288 best Vladimir, used to be #105 but stopped playing ranked for a while (not being arrogant, just mentioning this to increase the validity of my suggestions). Runes: flat pen reds, flat armor or hp per level yellows, flat cdr blues, 2 ap quints and one flat cdr quint. Summoner spells: I always pick ghost and flash. I never pick teleport on Vladimir. Masteries: 0/18/12. Make sure you pick the mastery that reduces the cd of summoner spells. Keystone mastery: Depends. If you pick teleport instead of ghost, pick stormraider. If you pick ghost, pick thunderlord like I do. Builds:

  1. If the enemy team has 2 ap champs (mid, support): item 3065 item 3152 item 3157 item 3047 item 3089 item 3135

  2. If the enemy team has more than 2 ap champs or when it has 2 ap champs without counting in the support: item 3065 item 3102 item 3157 item 3047 item 3089 item 3135

  3. If the enemy team is full ad: item 3157 item 3158 item 3143 item 3089 item 3152 item 3135

As you can see, you will always buy item 3089 item 3157 . In some instances I have found myself using build #2 for the senario of build #1 because the enemy mage was a threat (for example a fed enemy Cassiopeia ) and one mr item wasn't enough for me. But you can figure it out. Hope I helped!

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

The Korean build is generally better according to Reddit, which is to take summoner 14 summoner 4 , Deathfire Touch, and build item 3152 item 3158 item 3151 item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 in that order, every game.

Also,

If you pick ghost, pick thunderlord like I do.

Vlad is god awful at proccing Thunderlord's, especially in lane, because his combo is QE. You'd have to throw out a very low damage auto (Vlad has the lowest base AD in the game), which feels so bad. You're much better served taking Deathfire Touch or Stormraider's than Thunderlords.

Project omen1 votes

I did suggest taking stormraider's surge if op wanted to take teleport (or ignite) instead of ghost. I don't like dft, I tried it and it didn't work for me. I pick thunderlord mainly because I want to delete the enemy carry in fights. I don't care about the lane, since Vlad can't do much in the early game anyway. Don't like the build either, it doesn't give many resistances other than health and doesn't suit my playstyle with Vlad. The build I recommended offers the whole package: resistances, health, ap, cdr and healing.

Veltox1 votes

Is item 3194 an option?

Project omen1 votes

No. The only tank item Vlad should build that gives mr is item 3065 .

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Is item 3194 an option?

Just want to make sure your not confusing this, item 3194 with this. item 3001 (Only appeasers to have a 10 MR stat difference)

Spirit visage is generally your go to item if you want to pull of the "Juggermage" build. Yet Riot suppresses that build when they found out it countered every AP matchup conceivable. (At least when SV is rushed)

Adaptive helm is kinda niche to begin with, and probably won't benefit you enough, given you won't have the damage. Abyssal Mask might work, especially if you have multiple AP on your team.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Vlad really struggles to proc thunderlord's because one of his abilities is more or less entirely defensive and the other delays its damage.

Solidarius1 votes

depends on what ELO and who your facing... I run 15ad on wuk because its easier 2 last hit and the early damage is nice for a level 2 cheese opportunity but I agree that lethality is better.

I like item 3057 on wuk, helps with the burst, i rarely/never build Hydra because I dont really focus on splitpushing more of a get kills type

I used to love going tank kong item 3068 item 3022 item 3143 ect but since the nerfs to the items it dont work anymore and item 3068 costs way 2 much gold.

I think item 3193 should be a really good item on wuks because of his passive, but havent tried it yet.

my fav build on wuk when ahead is item 3142 item 3071 item 3057 item 3147 item 3814 item 3117 , beware though this build makes you really squishy and is not as strong as before because of lethality nerfs, but can litterly 1 shot squishys that are out of position.

p.s. in my opinion vlad feels shitty 2 play since rework, i just cant do it anymore

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Wouldn't Gargoyle be amazing on Diver Wu though?

Go in, assassinate/do a shit ton of burst, pop R for a bit more burst, then Gargoyle.

R won't do much damage, but generally you'll die before it can anyway. This way, you'll still be stacking Cleaver, you'll still have deleted/near deleted your primary target, and you also have much more survivability, as you should be full health when popping Gargoyle, so it'll double your health.

Solidarius1 votes

yeah exactly what I think 2, will have 2 try it out one of these days

instead of geting item 3742 might go for item 3193

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

**Runes : ** Usualy : 9x red lethality, 9 armor, 6 cdr per level in blue, and 3 rm per level and AD in quint atm (because lethality is garbage) : replace lethality by AD flat, 6 cdr flat in blue and mastery intelligence instead inteligence.

For start i ll begin by what item i hate to build :

  • item 3074 i really hate to build it, i don't like his build path and item 3077 isn't strong. When i build it's because im really late, or i m against fast pusher Tryndamere Kayle...or i'm against Shen
  • item 3156. i don't hate this item, but i hate to be force to build it first or even second before my core build.

My core build is item 3142 item 3078

item 3142 : Best item on Wu. Good build path, cdr. With Wu u deal almost nothing when ur spell are on cd.

item 3078 : for cdr, burst and wave clear (not better than hydra, but at least u have cdr). With other item u are ult reliant, until at least 3 items. With TF, u have burst (with cdr) even without ult.

My usual full build item 3142 item 3078 item 3026 item 3742 item 3033/item 3156

Boots item 3111 item 3047.

im testing this atm

item 3142 item 3078 item 3147 item 3814 item 3033/item 3026

obviously, u can replace item 3078 by item 3071 (i do it, depending on our comp, ennemy comp and how i am in the match). my build order is like this :

item 3134 > item 3044 > item 3057 >> item 3078 or item 3134 > item 3071 or item 3134 > item 3133 >> item 3142 > item 3044 > item 3057 >> item 3078

i often end my boots after the sheen

Wukong is a bad pick if u want my thought. To many negative match up top, bad clear in jungle, easly invadable, gank meh till lv6. There's always a better pick than him. Don't pick him unless u wan't to otp him. Shield and heal are really ennuyous.

He'll be reworked.

reaperteaser1 votes

not a vlad main by any means but he is in my top 3, also b2 so this might not even apply to your situation, but here goes.

10% scaling cdr blues, magic pen reds, 4.5%max hp in yellows amd the rest of blue and yello for ap (maby some armor and mr buts thats up to you), 2 ap quints amd 1 move speed quint. most of this is self explanatory but the MS quint helps with hitting that empowered Q.

i take 12/18/0 stormraiders surge so i can follow up on the empowered Q for more harrass or high-tail it outa there if they can turn it around. and always take the 5% cdr cap right above it to farm easier in early game.

for items i normaly rush either specters cowl or armgaurd (depending on enemy) then into boots (boots are always situational) and protobelt for more mobility. then finish out SV or Zhonyas then into the other. afterwards its rabadons amd final item is also situational. if i get ahead i switch track to railys after the next item so i can be sticky and keep that lead.

Hallbuster1 votes

Finally, a question I can answer! How do you pressure your lane early with Vladimir, you don't! Trust me, until you hit level 9, you don't have enough kill - potential to end your opponent. It's not even worth trying to trade damage unless you have your empowered Q up and even then it's somewhat risky. Focus on farming before then, it could be me, but I find farming with Vladimir to be relatively easy.

P.S I have 216,798 Mastery Points on Vladimir, he is an AMAZING champion.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

thing about wukong is that when hes sort of even or a little ahead hes very hard to stop. but hes somewhat weak in this meta.

I'd reduce his mana costs.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

item 3047 item 3143 item 3748 item 3812 item 3065 item 3071 (usually Tiamat + Tabi into Cleaver then the rest in no particular order)

Can sub Titanic for Ravenous, SV for any other MR + CDR item, and Randuin's for any other HP + Armor item.

Laustin Space1 votes

You were right to switch to lethality marks for wukong. For builds you want to rush yuumoos and cleaver then go towards either more lethality or situational items like ga/maw/etc. He is played more as an ad assassin then a fighter now so try for some hit and run one shots rather than sustaining fights. For vlad idfk, i dont play him srry. :P

Enrovy1 votes

I played a few games of wukong in jungle, I wouldn't use lethality in lane, since wukong has natural armor pen also for vlad you walk up to trade autos, when you have one charge, use q for the second charge, they would start to run and you use e, and walk back to your minions to heal with empowered q, unless you can kill them, pop ghost with w for slow

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