Why Fiddlesticks is Weak

Mr Vulcanator·Jan 20, 2016·4 votes·2,372 views

He can deal high damage but most likely he'll get burst down or stunned. His Q actually makes people walk away from you. Your E has a long cooldown and it's only really useful for throwing it at a pair of escaping enemies. His ult has an insane cooldown and quite often the damage means nothing. He needs a lot of items to be worth a damn after the first 5 minutes. And you can't even farm with him like other AP champs.

Don't even start with that "git zhonya's u scrub". Using it means you stop using your W and you can't chase people while your ult is active, and what the hell are you going to do when stasis ends? You're going to get attacked once and die, or you'll get stunned and then die.

20 Comments

WoonStruckJan 20, 20163 votes

"Why Fiddlesticks is Weak"

He needs a rework.

Ftfy.

Illâoi Evê SiônJan 20, 20161 votes

They could shift power from his ult to the rest of his kit. A new passive would be nice, in that case. The current one is even weaker than the one he had before (I do not know why they nerfed him) and hard to apply since his auto attacks are so sluggish.

Mr VulcanatorJan 20, 20161 votes

It's triggered by dealing magic damage. It's not like Amumu's.

Poptart EvelynnJan 20, 20161 votes

Fiddlesticks is only for very experienced/skilled junglers to use. If you do poorly with him, it's not because of the champion, it's because of you.

The only reason fiddlesticks isn't being used is his prime weakness which is easily abused atm. Counter jungling.

WoonStruckJan 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evolve Kha Penis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bw5YpksE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-20T17:15:13.942+0000)

Fiddlesticks is only for very experienced/skilled junglers to use. If you do poorly with him, it's not because of the champion, it's because of you.

The only reason fiddlesticks isn't being used is prime weakness is easily abused atm. Which is counter jungling.

This is entirely incorrect. Fiddlesticks has been the subject of nerf after nerf to the point where he hardly functions in the jungle, mostly due to his little flits in bot lane.

The nerfs to Zhonias and AP itemization in general make this even worse.

Fiddlesticks is definitely under-tuned now, and THAT is why you have to be experienced or skilled in order to use him. Because he legitimately can't perform to the level of other junglers, so you must compensate with skill. Not because he takes skill to play. He is not a hard jungler. He is a weak jungler.

In addition, people are more map-aware than when he was created. This is a huge weakness for him, as he relies on lack of vision to do basically anything.

Its not because of the player, its because of the champion. He's in dire need of a rework so he doesn't need to be weak like he is now.

Your little statement on 'counter-jungling' proves how little you know about Fiddlesticks. Fiddlesticks, with his current design, should be unable to be counter-jungled. However, with his current numbers, his abilities are so weak that he cannot accomplish anything with them. It used to be that if someone tried counter-jungling him, he would be full hp, they likely would not. If they engaged on him, he would fear->drain and you'd have even less relative HP than him. He could silence you until his drain was back up, then after that you were basically killing yourself.

You were forced to avoid him even if you tried to counter-jungle.

Poptart EvelynnJan 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is entirely incorrect. Fiddlesticks has been the subject of nerf after nerf to the point where he hardly functions in the jungle, mostly due to his little flits in bot lane.

The nerfs to Zhonias and AP itemization in general make this even worse.

Fiddlesticks is definitely under-tuned now, and THAT is why you have to be experienced or skilled in order to use him. Because he legitimately can't perform to the level of other junglers, so you must compensate with skill. Not because he takes skill to play. He is not a hard jungler. He is a weak jungler.

In addition, people are more map-aware than when he was created. This is a huge weakness for him, as he relies on lack of vision to do basically anything.

Its not because of the player, its because of the champion. He's in dire need of a rework so he doesn't need to be weak like he is now.

Your little statement on 'counter-jungling' proves how little you know about Fiddlesticks. Fiddlesticks, with his current design, should be unable to be counter-jungled. However, with his current numbers, his abilities are so weak that he cannot accomplish anything with them. It used to be that if someone tried counter-jungling him, he would be full hp, they likely would not. If they engaged on him, he would fear->drain and you'd have even less relative HP than him. He could silence you until his drain was back up, then after that you were basically killing yourself.

You were forced to avoid him even if you tried to counter-jungle.

You state I'm incorrect on the counter jungling but then you agree in your statement that he can be counter jungled extremely easy because he is in a poor spot.

Oh boy... This seems like it would be a complete waste of my time to explain.

Actually, it is, carry on.

WoonStruckJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evolve Kha Penis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bw5YpksE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T18:22:34.440+0000)

You state I'm incorrect on the counter jungling but then you agree in your statement that he can be counter jungled extremely easy because he is in a poor spot.

Oh boy... This seems like it would be a complete waste of my time to explain.

Actually, it is, carry on.

My point was that he's not weak against counter-jungling. He's simply weak in general. Intentionally so atm, because he's too consistent when he's 'strong'. Vision, awareness, and itemization have all made him even weaker than his intended state.

You're taking things incorrectly. You're wasting your own time, especially thinking he's in any decent spot and not used solely due to counter-jungling.

Counter-jungling working on him at all is proof that he's weak in general, since resistance to invades was one of his strongest points as an early-game jungler.

What you're trying to say is correlation-->causation, which is entirely false. Its not weak to counter-jungling--->not used, its weak in general--->can't realistically function-->not used

Poptart EvelynnJan 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

My point was that he's not weak against counter-jungling. He's simply weak in general. Intentionally so atm, because he's too consistent when he's 'strong'. Vision, awareness, and itemization have all made him even weaker than his intended state.

You're taking things incorrectly. You're wasting your own time, especially thinking he's in any decent spot and not used solely due to counter-jungling.

Counter-jungling working on him at all is proof that he's weak in general, since resistance to invades was one of his strongest points as an early-game jungler.

What you're trying to say is correlation-->causation, which is entirely false. Its not weak to counter-jungling--->not used, its weak in general--->can't realistically function-->not used

He's not weak to counter jungle. He's weak in general.

Are you serious atm? You ARE saying he is weak to counter jungle.

Is he weak in teamfights? No. Is he weak at ganking? No. Is he vulnerable to counter jungle? Yes. Is his itemization weak? No, thanks to new ap item he can jungle well again and he builds decently. Is he a weak 1v1 dueler? Yes and no.

Get off your high horse and think for a second no offense. It's really annoying to the rest of the community when you speak with such lack of experience and mere opinions.

I'm in the top 100 most played NA. I know exactly what I'm talking about through raw experience of over 20,000 games played in the last 6 years.

Tip Fiddlesticks is still used a lot in college tournaments and other pre-lcs/semi-pro tournaments

WoonStruckJan 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evolve Kha Penis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bw5YpksE,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T19:38:31.839+0000)

He's not weak to counter jungle. He's weak in general.

Are you serious atm? You ARE saying he is weak to counter jungle.

Is he weak in teamfights? No. Is he weak at ganking? No. Is he vulnerable to counter jungle? Yes. Is his itemization weak? No, thanks to new ap item he can jungle well again and he builds decently. Is he a weak 1v1 dueler? Yes and no.

Get off your high horse and think for a second no offense. It's really annoying to the rest of the community when you speak with such lack of experience and mere opinions.

I'm in the top 100 most played NA. I know exactly what I'm talking about through raw experience of over 20,000 games played in the last 6 years.

Tip Fiddlesticks is still used a lot in college tournaments and other pre-lcs/semi-pro tournaments

HE'S WEAK TO EVERYTHING AT THE MOMENT. Counter-jungling is not a specific weakness of his, and if he were even simply sub-par, rather than absurdly weak, it would still be impossible to counter-jungle him. Resistance to invades is one of his very strongest suits. Fiddle just doesn't work right now in 80% of situations, and you need REALLY good coordination or luck to make him worth anything. That's part of why people started taking him bot in the first place. To take advantage of his CC and base damage on his ult without the risk of a jungler that falls behind easily. Then he got nerfed over and over again due to that and now he almost can't succeed in the jungle at all.

What don't you understand about that?

Imagine volume control on your computer. You have several programs. You're suggesting just one thing is low volume because that's what you're focused on. Someone actually dragged the system volume all the way down. That's what's actually going on, and you're too ignorant to accept that Fiddle's current status has nothing to do with what he's good or bad at because he's basically bad at everything unless he gets absurdly lucky. And I do mean absurdly.

He is a very weak 1v1 dueler atm because his damage/sustain isn't there. He needs both to do anything, otherwise his mana costs are not worth it. He'll run out and be a sitting duck. I've been fed in ARAM and haven't been able to out-sustain an HP tank hitting me with auto-attacks. He's absurdly weak atm.

His itemization IS poor because his build order includes Zhonia's early, which is absolutely terrible for anybody who has to do so to have decent teamfight presense. In addition, he needs to buy Sorc Shoes, which is not cost-efficient compared to what the majority of other people are buying. He needs to buy mana or mana regen, in addition to CDR, otherwise his cooldowns are way too long for the damage they give, and he'll OOM right away anyway. So he has to get Athene's or Morello's, which delays significant damage further.

So your only real chance is if you get lucky and get fed from the start, which usually has nothing to do with Fiddle, it has everything to do with the enemy being stupid.

Poptart EvelynnJan 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

HE'S WEAK TO EVERYTHING AT THE MOMENT. Counter-jungling is not a specific weakness of his, and if he were even simply sub-par, rather than absurdly weak, it would still be impossible to counter-jungle him. Resistance to invades is one of his very strongest suits. Fiddle just doesn't work right now in 80% of situations, and you need REALLY good coordination or luck to make him worth anything. That's part of why people started taking him bot in the first place. To take advantage of his CC and base damage on his ult without the risk of a jungler that falls behind easily. Then he got nerfed over and over again due to that and now he almost can't succeed in the jungle at all.

What don't you understand about that?

Imagine volume control on your computer. You have several programs. You're suggesting just one thing is low volume because that's what you're focused on. Someone actually dragged the system volume all the way down. That's what's actually going on, and you're too ignorant to accept that Fiddle's current status has nothing to do with what he's good or bad at because he's basically bad at everything unless he gets absurdly lucky. And I do mean absurdly.

He is a very weak 1v1 dueler atm because his damage/sustain isn't there. He needs both to do anything, otherwise his mana costs are not worth it. He'll run out and be a sitting duck. I've been fed in ARAM and haven't been able to out-sustain an HP tank hitting me with auto-attacks. He's absurdly weak atm.

His itemization IS poor because his build order includes Zhonia's early, which is absolutely terrible for anybody who has to do so to have decent teamfight presense. In addition, he needs to buy Sorc Shoes, which is not cost-efficient compared to what the majority of other people are buying. He needs to buy mana or mana regen, in addition to CDR, otherwise his cooldowns are way too long for the damage they give, and he'll OOM right away anyway. So he has to get Athene's or Morello's, which delays significant damage further.

So your only real chance is if you get lucky and get fed from the start, which usually has nothing to do with Fiddle, it has everything to do with the enemy being stupid.

All I see is a huge ass wall of text with no factual basis, no numbers, and just opinions.

It's a waste of time for me to argue with opinions.

WoonStruckJan 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evolve Kha Penis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bw5YpksE,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-21T05:06:55.145+0000)

All I see is a huge ass wall of text with no factual basis, no numbers, and just opinions.

It's a waste of time for me to argue with opinions.

Where are your numbers then?

Burden of knowledge is not my responsibility to you.

Poptart EvelynnJan 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Where are your numbers then?

Burden of knowledge is not my responsibility to you.

Burden of knowledge =/= lack of proof.

Lol ok I'm done. I'm arguing with an idiot.

WoonStruckJan 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evolve Kha Penis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bw5YpksE,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-21T21:50:43.516+0000)

Burden of knowledge =/= lack of proof.

Lol ok I'm done. I'm arguing with an idiot.

There is no proof. Its all theoretic. Concept. There is no formula. Why do think Riot makes so many mistakes despite being the ones running the game; rather professionally I might add?

Are you really that dumb? And you call me the idiot.

What you're asking is akin to proof for a a philosophical stance. Philosophy is already bullshit, so how do you acquire legitimate proofs? You don't. You have reasoning to try to persuade someone. That's it. And if you had half a brain you'd have seen plenty of things to incline you towards what I've already said.

Plenty of people will tell you Fiddlesticks is not a strong jungler at all. And not because of counter-jungling. Otherwise he'd be a common pick against junglers that are weak at counter-jungling and invades. Or at least not an extremely rare pick in such circumstances.

Why do you accuse everyone of being idiots and spewing shit when its all actually on your half?

AezanthyaJan 20, 20161 votes

rework him ^^

I dunno i feel like his ult should be an aoe fear with some damage (obv not as strong as it is now) because the whole "ulting their whole team" is so binary : it either works but it's mostly because your team is dominating or it does not work and you're basically useless.

EcchiOtakuTMJan 20, 20161 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/FiddleSticks

because he's "weak"

Face it runic echo works wonders for him now that he has an actually usable jng item.

FioraWillCarryJan 21, 20161 votes

I once laned vs Fiddle in Top lane....I thought he was insanely strong. I couldn't beat the little shit at all. Its like playing vs Vlad.

Mr VulcanatorJan 21, 20161 votes

I'm guessing you tried to 1v1 him without CC or burst damage? Just walk away so that his drain stops and then go back and kill him.

Itadaki SeiekiJan 21, 20161 votes

"He is a very weak 1v1 dueler atm because his damage/sustain isn't there."

Have you tried to 1v1 a Fiddle pre-six with no CC?

Yeahno his Q + W is immensely OP to those who duel him without any form of CC or Grieve Wounds.

Mr VulcanatorJan 21, 20161 votes

No because I'm the only one who plays him. I only get kills like that when my opponent is to stupid to retreat. And when they try to retreat I can't stop them.