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A Dota 2 Players Gripes With LoL

Mr Vulcanator··142 votes·11,206 views

So I started playing LoL because I liked the unique champions and visual style. It's been kind of fun. But there's a lot that I really don't like.

  1. Little action against game ruiners and people who are overly rude in chat. In Dota 2, if you get reported in 3 games or get an abandon by leaving 3 games or not gaining XP for 5 minutes in 3 games you have to do 3-5 games of low priority, where you have to deal with like minded people, lengthy matchmaking time, and only 3 heroes, 1 for each attribute, to choose from. Oh and you have to win. Thus the fear with having to deal with that hell helps decently with the trolls and jerks.

Here I have to deal with very very very rude people who are unable to understand the game or what's happening. And a lot of my games have had people who intentionally fed or went AFK or did their best to ruin the game in some other way. Out of all this I've gotten 2 notifications that action was taken. And the forums are full of people with similar experiences.

  1. Horrific balancing. Dota 2 has pretty good balance. There are no OP heroes and only 2-3 weak heroes. Every hero has a counter. Even items are used to counter your opponent. And Riot doesn't even care that their game is not balanced. They admitted to not balancing Lee Sin based on the wishes of the community because Lee Sin mains would have a hissy fit. They admitted to nerfing champions to make them unpopular. And the champions they nerf end up so pathetically weak that you can't use them. And then they don't buff the weak champion for months or even years. In fact they might nerf them more. I should not have to ask on the forums before I buy a champion if they're worth playing. In summation I'm angry that there are so many heroes that are far to weak. Maybe we wouldn't hear about how OP champions are if they had viable competition. (There was a popular thread yesterday that corroborated this)

  2. No way to even test a champions kit on a lone bot to see if you can handle the kit. And you have to go on the wiki to actually get the numbers and cooldowns. You don't even know what resource spells use based on the shop.

  3. Lack of information in game. I have no way seeing an enemy champion's abilities in game like in Dota 2. How am I supposed to understand them AT ALL if I don't have a good understanding of what they do? And my gosh stop writing such long winded and confusing ability info panels, Illoai has over 1,000 characters for her spirit ripping thing, Annie has 1,500 for all her abilities together. There have been times where I go an entire game without really understanding what an ability does on the champion I'm playing. And I'm not able to see how an ability scales per level like in Dota 2, and by what percentage it scales with AP and/or AD.

I still like LoL, but I'm mad about how many problems it has.

264 Comments

Potato Doc56 votes

As a devils advocate I will say this, a lot of what people perceive as "weak" really isnt all that bad and mostly people just flaming or using the champion incorrectly. I mean there are really high level people who play champions in really strange ways, ive seen AP garen as a challenger. A lot is learning how to adjust to the champion and using their skills correctly

You actually can "test" a champion, go to custom games, set 1 bot, and then go at it, you can try as many times as you like.

This game bases itself off rote memorization for many champions. That is part of the lv 30 experience but I do agree that finding an enemy champions abilities should be easier. Granted you can just get on this website, go to champions, and then search the abilities of your enemies, but im assuming many peoples computers cant handle that very easily. A more accessible way would probably help new players

As for punishment yea we all know, its been complained about since season 1, but its labeled Soon(tm)

hopeful443 votes

The guy either tells lies or hes completely ignorant about dota 2 in general.

There are no OP heroes

Just in the last 3 patches:

6.83: Sniper, Troll, Juggernar, Axe, SF nearly 100% p/b status in every pro game

6.84: Gyro, Storm, QoP, SF, Windranger, Leshrac, Wyvern

6.85: Doom, Tusk, Windranger, Ember, SF, Wyvern, QoP

6.86 just came out just a few days ago and already the first dominant picks were showed.

and only 2-3 weak heroes

In around 130 games in TI5, over 20 heroes were unpicked and another 20 only got picked 1-2 times. Frankfurt Major was the same deal as well

Its also funny how he mentions that Riot nerfs champs to make them unpopular and weak while in the new dota patch heroes like Techies or Huskar are legit trollpicks. To mention that he complaints about ppl ruining games? Are you kidding me? You meet intentional game ruiners in Dota at least once every 5 games.

And just to clarify: I think that dota has better balance than LoL (as far as the competitive scene go). But what this guy says is complete bullshit

KONO RUBICK DA10 votes

{quoted}

The guy either tells lies or hes completely ignorant about dota 2 in general.

Just in the last 3 patches:

6.83: Sniper, Troll, Juggernar, Axe, SF nearly 100% p/b status in every pro game

6.84: Gyro, Storm, QoP, SF, Windranger, Leshrac, Wyvern

6.85: Doom, Tusk, Windranger, Ember, SF, Wyvern, QoP

6.86 just came out just a few days ago and already the first dominant picks were showed.

In around 130 games in TI5, over 20 heroes were unpicked and another 20 only got picked 1-2 times. Frankfurt Major was the same deal as well

Its also funny how he mentions that Riot nerfs champs to make them unpopular and weak while in the new dota patch heroes like Techies or Huskar are legit trollpicks. To mention that he complaints about ppl ruining games? Are you kidding me? You meet intentional game ruiners in Dota at least once every 5 games.

And just to clarify: I think that dota has better balance than LoL (as far as the competitive scene go). But what this guy says is complete bullshit

no op heroes? that's a lie

can weak heroes still be played and still win against op heroes? yes because of items, that's why OP heroes doesn't have more than 60% win rate in competition, the higher was 64% with lycan, i call that balanced (heroes with at least picked in 15 games). in t14 only 8 heroes weren't picked in any games, they are now picked in like 20% of the games

also: i didn't see any dominant picks nerfed hard in 6.86

bane: -5 ms broodmother: -20 damage on Q dark seer: shield can now be dispelled dazzle: +40 mana cost on his W ember spirit: remnants no longer give vision gyrocopter: -30 damage at lvl 1 on his ulti huskar: magic resistance given by his E reduced from 84% to 50% night stalker: slow duration from 4/4/4/4 to 2.5/3/3.5/4 queen of pain: -10 damage at lvl 1 on her E shadow fiend: +20 mana cost on his Q/W/E slardar: Amplify damage no longer gives flying vision tusk: -40 damage on his Qq windrunner: shakle is now disjoinctable winter wyvern: reworked into a nerfed version

gg icefrog gutted them, 14 heroes nerfed among 80 heroes changed

https://www.dota2.com/balanceofpower

hopeful47 votes

also: i didn't see any dominant picks nerfed hard in 6.86

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3x1qt5/congrats_on_making_huskar_the_worst_hero_to_have/

Techies and Storm were completely gutted in 6.85, the previous patch. Heroes like Elder Titan or Kunkka remain obsolete for over a year

can weak heroes still be played and still win against op heroes? yes because of items, that's why OP heroes doesn't have more than 60% win rate in competition, the higher was 64% with lycan.

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=501&tournament=Frankfurt%20Major%202015&p=heroes

83 out of 107 heroes were picked, leaving 26 not picked even once. 20 more were picked only once or twice, with over half of them having 0% winrate.

To also note that dotas draft system allows for more heroes getting picked/banned (which is nice, one of the very few things from dota that i want to be in LoL)

Best princess EU5 votes

{quoted}

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3x1qt5/congrats_on_making_huskar_the_worst_hero_to_have/

Techies and Storm were completely gutted in 6.85, the previous patch. Heroes like Elder Titan or Kunkka remain obsolete for over a year

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=501&tournament=Frankfurt%20Major%202015&p=heroes

83 out of 107 heroes were picked, leaving 26 not picked even once. 20 more were picked only once or twice, with over half of them having 0% winrate.

To also note that dotas draft system allows for more heroes getting picked/banned (which is nice, one of the very few things from dota that i want to be in LoL)

he said in 6.86, not 6.85

elder titan was only nerfed one time, and was obselete in like 1 month because he was played by one guy in a support role instead of a solo laner abusing aura high damage and low mana cost

Kunkka obsolete? people here should play the damn game before speaking, kunkka has been nothing but a train of buff since i started to play the game ( something like 3 years)

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Kunkka

hopeful47 votes

he said in 6.86, not 6.85

The thread about Huskar refers to 6.86. Also its a brand new patch with very few competitive games played and ppl still try to figure it out. There are already complaints about Invoker being absurdly OP and reworked Riki being weak as balls, among others

Kunkka obsolete? people here should play the damn game before speaking, kunkka has been nothing but a train of buff since i started to play the game ( something like 3 years)

The fact that hes receiving nothing but buffs the past year and he still has 0% pickrate in every major tournament should tell you something about him being obsolete.

KONO RUBICK DA4 votes

{quoted}

The thread about Huskar refers to 6.86. Also its a brand new patch with very few competitive games played and ppl still try to figure it out. There are already complaints about Invoker being absurdly OP and reworked Riki being weak as balls, among others

The fact that hes receiving nothing but buffs the past year and he still has 0% pickrate in every major tournament should tell you something about him being obsolete.

kunkka weak wat the fuck? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qswS75QsEs4

hopeful411 votes

I give you stats from competitive games and you show me a video from pubs. Are we gonna talk about whats relevant in the highest level of play or about what is viable in soloQ? Cuz i can show you videos from Urgot and Yorick roflstomping soloQ teams if you want to have that kind of conversation

D357R0Y3R5 votes

{quoted}

I give you stats from competitive games and you show me a video from pubs. Are we gonna talk about whats relevant in the highest level of play or about what is viable in soloQ? Cuz i can show you videos from Urgot and Yorick roflstomping soloQ teams if you want to have that kind of conversation

this isn't a pub, it is attacker a kunkka main playing in 6.9k mmr https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2bxays/over_700_kunkka_games_69k_solo_mmr_ask_me/

also known as god kunkka (thanks youtube commentary) 6.9k mmr is the mmr where pros play, just like in league challenger games are like lcs game, this game is like a pro game , never saw him but this video just showed how he one man carried his team.

kunkka is definitly not weak, icefrog buffs him for lower mmr i think

hopeful49 votes

Pub=soloQ

I can give you matches of Garens and Urgot mains in Challenger, that doesnt mean that these champions arent underpowered compared to the opposition

kunkka is definitly not weak, icefrog buffs him for lower mmr i think

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=501&tournament=Frankfurt%20Major%202015&p=heroes

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=451&tournament=The%20International%202015&p=heroes

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=388&tournament=Dota%202%20Asia%20Championships%202015&p=heroes

3 latest major dota 2 tournaments. Over 300 games, Kunkka wasnt picked not even ONCE

Got New Glasses5 votes

{quoted}

Pub=soloQ

I can give you matches of Garens and Urgot mains in Challenger, that doesnt mean that these champions arent underpowered compared to the opposition

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=501&tournament=Frankfurt%20Major%202015&p=heroes

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=451&tournament=The%20International%202015&p=heroes

http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=388&tournament=Dota%202%20Asia%20Championships%202015&p=heroes

3 latest major dota 2 tournaments. Over 300 games, Kunkka wasnt picked not even ONCE

garen isn't underpowered, and urgot isn't underpowered, what the hell is this?

and while i don't play dota 2, in league not picked in competition =/= underpowered, sorry mate that's a shit arg

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Which is exactly why he's using it. To show the other guy what a "shit arg" he's using.

Other guy is saying there are terrible champs in league n this guy is saying there are bad champs in DotA too. So other guy pulled out a youtube video of a bad DotA champ doing good in SoloQ n this guy is saying bad LoL champs can do good in SoloQ too, it doesn't make a hero/champion any less bad. And now you're chiming in saying there are no bad champs in league which goes against other guy and actually supports this guy's arguement despite you saying the one you're unintentionally supporting has a "shit arg". Because from your comment here you're basically saying "LoL is more balanced than DotA." Which goes against other guy's claims and is completely true. Not for pre-season ofcourse, it's gonna be a little wonky til the season starts due to all the massive changes but come season 6 time it'll be balanced again.

Drackolus16 votes

can weak heroes still be played and still win against op heroes? yes because of items, that's why OP heroes doesn't have more than 60% win rate in competition, the higher was 64% with lycan, i call that balanced

It's somewhat rare for a champion in league to go over 56% in winrate outside of preseasons, and 60% is almost unheard of . How is 60% winrate more balanced than 56% winrate?

If you're going to support your arguments with numbers, those numbers should actually support your argument.

doombotMECHA8 votes

also, forget about dota 2 champions being "simple". illaoi may have a long-winded description, but many things--like how and when to stack camps, bottle crowing, courier management, denying creeps/champs, the entirety of how to meepo--simply aren't written ANYWHERE and require youtube to understand.

Fear Popo23 votes

Saying that League is more balanced than Dota is a bit silly. More than a bit silly, frankly. If we look at the range of winrates for League, you'll find that the range is 43%-55%, with 5 champions above 53% and 17 below 47%. Where the winrate range in Dota is actualy 37%-60%, with a full 20 heroes above 53% winrate and 35 below 47% winrate. While it's certainly true that winrates aren't the be all and end all, I feel safe saying that the strongest hero and the weakest hero are MUCH further apart in strength in Dota than in League, and there are far more heroes outside the acceptable winrate margin (usually quoted as 53 or so) in Dota than in League.

Ahristocats8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Popo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nN6dZRp8,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-12-23T19:24:43.675+0000)

Saying that League is more balanced than Dota is a bit silly. More than a bit silly, frankly. If we look at the range of winrates for League, you'll find that the range is 43%-55%, with 5 champions above 53% and 17 below 47%. Where the winrate range in Dota is actualy 37%-60%, with a full 20 heroes above 53% winrate and 35 below 47% winrate. While it's certainly true that winrates aren't the be all and end all, I feel safe saying that the strongest hero and the weakest hero are MUCH further apart in strength in Dota than in League, and there are far more heroes outside the acceptable winrate margin (usually quoted as 53 or so) in Dota than in League.

this argument will only work with non dota 2 player

those who played dota 2 since like 2 years, will now how earth spirit was the biggest aberation ever and had 30% win rate

http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2014-03-05-earth-spirit-32-win-rate-and-the-last-played-why meanwhile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgCWDy8hf6k

meanwhile the train of nerf:

Reduced Intelligence intelligence gain from 2.4 to 2.1. Reduced Boulder Smash icon.png Boulder Smash damage/stun radius from 200 to 160.

6.84

Rescaled Boulder Smash icon.png Boulder Smash damage from 125 on each level to 50/100/150/200. Fixed Rolling Boulder icon.png Rolling Boulder not getting interrupted when getting hexed during the initial 0.6 seconds. Geomagnetic Grip icon.png Geomagnetic Grip Reduced damage from 50/125/200/275 to 50/100/150/200. Increased manacost from 75 to 100. Magnetize icon.png Magnetize can now be dispelled.

6.83

Rolling Boulder icon.png Rolling Boulder No longer reduces attack speed by 80 for 2 seconds. No longer does an additional 45 damage when used with a Stone Remnant icon.png Stone Remnant. Increased base damage from 90 to 100.

Geomagnetic Grip Rescaled silence from 2/3/4/5 to 2.5/3/3.5/4. Rescaled damage from 100/150/200/250 to 50/125/200/275. Reduced pull speed on allies from 1000 to 600

6.80

Increased Stone Remnant icon.png Stone Remnant recharge timer from 25 to 35. Geomagnetic Grip icon.png Geomagnetic Grip Now does a 2/3/4/5 second silence instead of a 1/1.5/2/2.5 second stun. Rescaled damage from 125 to 100/150/200/250. Now kills trees along the path of a dragged allied hero. Fixed being able to cast on spell immune allies. Boulder Smash icon.png Boulder Smash Now does a 0.75/1.25/1.75/2.25 second stun instead of a 3.5/4/4.5/5 second silence. Rescaled damage from 100/150/200/250 to 125. Reduced radius from 225 to 200. Targeting a unit directly will now be blocked by Linken's Sphere icon.png Linken's Sphere. Fixed being able to cast on spell immune units. Rolling Boulder icon.png Rolling Boulder Now also gets interrupted if disabled during the initial 0.6 rolling charge, instead of only while its moving. Fixed travel distance going further than intended if a Stone Remnant icon.png Stone Remnant was used near the end of the rol

Fear Popo2 votes

I think league players can understand that fine enough. It's not as extreme (because earth spirit is so fucking hard to play well), but Azir is a similar case, where he was (and is) garbage in the hands of anyone below extremely high skill level, but once you get to EXTREMELY high levels of play, he is a monster, which is why he received constant nerfs despite low play and winrates outside of professional play. There are going to be outliers to the winrate argument in any game. However, I don't think it's honest to say that Dota 2 is more balanced than League, and I DO feel like the strength range of heroes is both larger in Dota and that Dota has more outliers (both in terms of being too strong and too weak) than League does.

KONO RUBICK DA18 votes

i play both game every day, and i can say that this is all the problems i have, except 3 because i find that in league informations are easier to memorize.

Prospector Pete4 votes

Riot also balances heavily on the LCS.

I am soo NA17 votes

Platinum and above. They said it several times.

Toastey17 votes

The in-game tooltips for abilities has always rubbed the wrong way... They're written as if Riot were trying to illustrate a narrative---a respectable venture, but a tooltip is neither the time nor place for that sort of writing. If I mouse over a tooltip, I want concise information, and I want data displayed in a fashion that's easily and quickly scanned and consumed. I don't care about all your fatty adjectives and adverbs; tell me what the ability does. Verbs and nouns and numbers.

Randomonium17 votes

Agree completely with how we deal with toxic people. I know ragers complain that this game is too "soft" but I feel like the only thing we are soft on is toxic people. Takes far too many reports and far too long for any action to be taken.

For your other points:

  1. Definitely disagree with this point. Right now balance may be a little out of wack but its the pre-season, that's to be expected. During the season the vast majority of champions hover around a 50% win rate. Yes some champs are more popular in LCS and some champs are more popular in low elo but I don't think any of the champs are broken. Please provide a link for the Lee Sin comments and comments admitting to nerfing champions to make them unpopular, I've never heard of this. I agree some champions stay nerfed for far too long and that I think Riot should favor buffing weak champions rather than nerfing strong ones. I do think Riot is on the right path with all these balance changes and reworks, its just going to take them a long time to overhaul all 125+ champions.

  2. I would like to see a testing mode so people can try out a champion before they buy him but I don't think its essential (I'd prioritize a replay system way above this request.)

  3. This has never really bothered me but I can see how it would affect people who are new to the game. Usually if I'm going up against a champion I am unfamiliar with I look the champion up while the game loads so it never really is a problem for me. If you go into the game not knowing the basics about the enemy team then you're already kind of screwed.

rtbf326335035 votes

I don't have the link, but it was stated years ago with eve and twitch. They didn't know what to do with them and their 60+ seconds of stealth. So they trashed them until they did their stealth rework. I remember twitch easily 1v5 everywhere with how his abilities were and scouting. You didn't see them coming, just pop up and you died. Twitch had a 50% no target, huge AoE slow around him, that all stacks did was make the slow longer.

They nerfed their abilities to near useless state, sonce in order to keep their version of stealth they had nothing elsewhere. There is a reason the term "eve teir" existed.

AbodyHUN6663 votes

So it's basically nerfing the cancer champs so they won't make the game hell. I can definitely agree with them.

OyddAWqJ5r3 votes

I don't see what the mistakes made years ago with stealth champions have anything to do with current balancing.

Amachy16 votes

One of things I liek about dota is how the ability tooltips tells you the numbers ahead of time for the next 3 levels.

Decrit10 votes

On the other hand, they have no scaling

Flagrock11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Vulcanator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nN6dZRp8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-23T15:37:38.024+0000)

So I started playing LoL because I liked the unique champions and visual style. It's been kind of fun. But there's a lot that I really don't like.

  1. Little action against game ruiners and people who are overly rude in chat. In Dota 2, if you get reported in 3 games or get an abandon by leaving 3 games or not gaining XP for 5 minutes in 3 games you have to do 3-5 games of low priority, where you have to deal with like minded people, lengthy matchmaking time, and only 3 heroes, 1 for each attribute, to choose from. Oh and you have to win. Thus the fear with having to deal with that hell helps decently with the trolls and jerks.

Here I have to deal with very very very rude people who are unable to understand the game or what's happening. And a lot of my games have had people who intentionally fed or went AFK or did their best to ruin the game in some other way. Out of all this I've gotten 2 notifications that action was taken. And the forums are full of people with similar experiences.

  1. Horrific balancing. Dota 2 has pretty good balance. There are no OP heroes and only 2-3 weak heroes. Every hero has a counter. Even items are used to counter your opponent.

  2. No way to even test a champions kit on a lone bot to see if you can handle the kit. And you have to go on the wiki to actually get the numbers and cooldowns. You don't even know what resource spells use based on the shop.

  3. Lack of information in game. I have no way seeing an enemy champion's abilities in game like in Dota 2.

I still like LoL, but I'm mad about how many problems it has.

Ok, it is very obvious with your post that there are a couple misconceptions to clear up.

  1. There is a LOT of action against "game ruiners" in league. If you look at the player behavior forums, EVERY DAY there are multiple threads of people who complain about being PERMANENTLY BANNED from the game. So, if literally removing toxic people from the community is considered "little action" then Dota 2 takes "no action" against game ruiners by your own standards.

1a) Dota 2 also shoves people who start the game in low priority queues (or it felt like it) to begin with. My first 5 games with Dota 2, HALF of the ENTIRE GAME would go AFK/quit throughout the game. So, 5/10 people quitting a game, compared to MAYBE 1/10 (at which point Leavebuster BANS THEM) is awful. Learning Dota 2 felt horrible because most games ended when one team just had people quit because they got behind. That's horrible toxic to literally have to hope your team doesn't just simply quit. In League, if your team quits they are banned and removed from the game. In Dota 2, who cares? you get sent to low priority and you'll get out at some time and then can screw people over yet again.

  1. Dota 2's balance is LARGERLY copied from the original Dota from Warcraft 3. There is a big reason why Dota 2 was SUED by Blizzard because of copyright laws over custom games in W3. It's really not surprising Dota 2 has "better balance" when they have YEARS of balancing the game on LoL. Also on that point, every year LoL is changed, updated, and overall evolved into a new game. I started in s1 with league, and the leaps and bounds that the game has changed from s1 to now is amazing. It's could be considered an entirely new game. Dota 2? It really feels like yet another update of the old Dota with some new graphics but the same old same old. I played Dota and Dota 2 is a carbon-copy with slight balance "updates" but ehh.

  2. I do have to admit this is a "problem" with the LoL setup. However, they do have a rotating "free to play" roster that allows you to test champions during a week in real play at which point you can then decide on so there are pros and cons, but I do agree this should be updated.

  3. Dota 2 is the biggest lack of information game I have ever played. From the hero side of it, there are some heroes (Invoker) that have a combination of abilities based on what buttons you mash of his base kit. If that isn't a "lack of information" type thing where you have to learn or memorize what buttons to press in what order JUST TO GET A SINGLE ABILITY, I don't know what is. Also, on top of the heroes having a lot of "hidden" things in there kits, there is a SECRET SHOP. LoL you can buy any item at your base. In Dota 2 there is a special shop called the "SECRET SHOP" to get certain items. Also, if you're not familiar with the map and all its hidden tree-covered paths and additional shops located on the map, it's awful to try to pick up and learn. I was able to learn LoL and understand most of the stuff going on within 2-3 games. Even after hundreds of games of Dota to help me out knowing the heroes before trying Dota 2, I didn't pick up on all the different "secrets" in it for a long time. You might be able to look at the "hero's abilities in Dota 2" but that doesn't mean they'll explain what just wrecked you because visual effects don't line up with the power/dmg of the spell or are clear who did what.

tl;dr: Please, look into some of your comments about LoL before you say things. Dota 2 is not the perfect game that you and the Dota 2 community tries to make it out to be. Also, get information on LoL before you say it does not do things that it does.

The Aqua Snake7 votes

{quoted}

  1. Dota 2 is the biggest lack of information game I have ever played. From the hero side of it, there are some heroes (Invoker) that have a combination of abilities based on what buttons you mash of his base kit. If that isn't a "lack of information" type thing where you have to learn or memorize what buttons to press in what order JUST TO GET A SINGLE ABILITY, I don't know what is. Also, on top of the heroes having a lot of "hidden" things in there kits, there is a SECRET SHOP.

Invoker's combination of spells can be view when you hover your mouse over the Ultimate area. Also, these "hidden" abilities of spells are detailed further when you hover the mouse over the spells and hold Alt.

It appears you completely overlooked all of this (On accident perhaps).

Wheatloaf10 votes

I might be wrong on this, but doesn't DotA have insane snowballing issues due to their balancing policy being "if everyone is OP, no one is"? You've actually played the game a lot, so you'd know better than I would.

Matezoide4 votes

{quoted}

I might be wrong on this, but doesn't DotA have insane snowballing issues due to their balancing policy being "if everyone is OP, no one is"? You've actually played the game a lot, so you'd know better than I would.

I know i am not the OP, but i actually feel like LoL is more snowbally.

For starters, carries in Dota need more than one complete item to actually do something, and even when they get an early kill, they are still relatively weak. I have literally never lost a game because of an Anti-Mage that got a kill early on.

While abilites are generally more powerful, it also allows more options against fed carries. Even champions that are common snowballers such as Bloodseeker can be easily stopped with something like an Enigma or Magnus Ult. Because abilites dont scale, it also means Mages that get an early advantage, such as Zeus and Lina, will eventually fall off if they cant end the game quickly. A mage that gets fed in LoL, meanwhile, is going to 100-0 your entire team in a single spell rotation.

While snowballing in Dota exists, it feels like there are more options to deal with these situations.

Bladerunner77779 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Vulcanator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nN6dZRp8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-23T15:37:38.024+0000)

So I started playing LoL because I liked the unique champions and visual style.

Finally someone that agrees.

My friends ask me, "why do you like league more than smite?" I just love the league's cartoonish art style and I think it's more aesthetically pleasing. I've never really been a fan of dark and gritty games.

edit: I typed this up but I forgot to post it back when there was only 1 page of replies q_q

Best princess EU3 votes

{quoted}

Finally someone that agrees.

My friends ask me, "why do you like league more than smite?" I just love the league's cartoonish art style and I think it's more aesthetically pleasing. I've never really been a fan of dark and gritty games.

edit: I typed this up but I forgot to post it back when there was only 1 page of replies q_q

this is actually right, me and my friends agree that league had unique champions like vladimir, dota 2 doesn't have vampires

Puppet33r8 votes
  1. Well... can't really argue there. Although the main reason people don't complain that much about balance in DotA is cause it's slower paced, most of the burst damage skills have no scalings and dashes, flashes and jumps are replaced by stealth in all of it's weird forms and shapes dota provides. So it's much easier to balance. Riot tries to but I don't think it's possible to find a balance where every champion would be healthy. LoL also doesn't have such a strict counterpick potential as pretty much anyone can outplay anyone. If not with their base kit then at least with a well-timed flash.
  2. Just create a custom game, add a bot and that's it. This is how I usually check my jungle clear with champions I have no experience with.
  3. Also true. But there's an abundance of websites with that info with nice and easy interfaces. Just add one to favorites in your web browser and done.
Mr Vulcanator10 votes
  1. I meant that you can't try a hero you don't own unless they somehow end up on the rotation roster.
  2. I shouldn't have to turn to third party websites to understand a champions abilities.
Wheatloaf7 votes

These are the two points here I find easiest to agree with. Hopefully at least the second one will be solved with the new client that should begin testing next year.

Tysmin7 votes

i like how Dota2 rarely ever nerfs heros and instead gives compensation buffs to other heros

chipndip117 votes

{quoted}

i like how Dota2 rarely ever nerfs heros and instead gives compensation buffs to other heros

You know, always buffing/nerfing has its own problems too...

You don't reach balance by never nerfing. Or rather, if you do, you reach it by making everyone so bloody ridiculous that, regardless of how stupid one champ is, other champs have just as many moments where they're stupidly broken so you just can't complain anyway. Always buffing and never nerfing doesn't outright make for a healthy game play experience. All it does is save mains of a champ from the disappointment of being nerfed.

KONO RUBICK DA5 votes

{quoted}

You know, always buffing/nerfing has its own problems too...

You don't reach balance by never nerfing. Or rather, if you do, you reach it by making everyone so bloody ridiculous that, regardless of how stupid one champ is, other champs have just as many moments where they're stupidly broken so you just can't complain anyway. Always buffing and never nerfing doesn't outright make for a healthy game play experience. All it does is save mains of a champ from the disappointment of being nerfed.

yes, but icefrog never only buff heroes, and he RARELY gut a champion, look at 6.86, windrunner was an fotm hero how icefrog nerfed here? She has a point and click bard's Q that follow you if you blink, he made it not following you if you blink so you can dodge it. He never gut the hell of a hero like riot did with kassadin's range nerf on his ulti, but rather change small things and wait to see if the other buffed heroes can compete with the op hero.

And also: he allows heroes to be played everywhere

chipndip17 votes

{quoted}

yes, but icefrog never only buff heroes, and he RARELY gut a champion, look at 6.86, windrunner was an fotm hero how icefrog nerfed here? She has a point and click bard's Q that follow you if you blink, he made it not following you if you blink so you can dodge it. He never gut the hell of a hero like riot did with kassadin's range nerf on his ulti, but rather change small things and wait to see if the other buffed heroes can compete with the op hero.

And also: he allows heroes to be played everywhere

But that creates a steady power creep, which got DotA 2 to the point where it is now: The overly complicated moba that enforces sink or swim the most out of the main 4 choices. Not the healthiest to overdo buffing over nerfing.

Ahristocats9 votes

{quoted}

But that creates a steady power creep, which got DotA 2 to the point where it is now: The overly complicated moba that enforces sink or swim the most out of the main 4 choices. Not the healthiest to overdo buffing over nerfing.

icefrog nerfs the weakness of heroes, that's true FOR EVERYTHING he touches, he enforces a weakness instead of cutting by 2 a strength of a hero, that's the smarttest thing ever, i swear i can't remember when riot did a smart nerf, something ok, remember the fucking kha'zix? they nerf everything and then nerf his Q isolation which made his weakness increased and the champ was trash, remember kassadin who needed a mobility nerf and had his entier kit nerfed?

lifestealer: used to be the morronest hero ever, no counterplay scalling in late game, no weaknesses, bringing initiation had everything.

How icefrog nerfed him? range on open wounds from 500 to 200/300/400/500, now can't initiate like before and can be easily handed in early game with a ranged hero. lifestealer is now among the most balanced hero and picked to counter tanks.

chipndip15 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nN6dZRp8,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-23T20:16:13.751+0000)

icefrog nerfs the weakness of heroes, that's true FOR EVERYTHING he touches, he enforces a weakness instead of cutting by 2 a strength of a hero, that's the smarttest thing ever, i swear i can't remember when riot did a smart nerf, something ok, remember the fucking kha'zix? they nerf everything and then nerf his Q isolation which made his weakness increased and the champ was trash, remember kassadin who needed a mobility nerf and had his entier kit nerfed?

lifestealer: used to be the morronest hero ever, no counterplay scalling in late game, no weaknesses, bringing initiation had everything.

How icefrog nerfed him? range on open wounds from 500 to 200/300/400/500, now can't initiate like before and can be easily handed in early game with a ranged hero. lifestealer is now among the most balanced hero and picked to counter tanks.

How is making my weakness as a character even bigger "the smartest thing ever"? All that does is reinforce extremes. DotA 2 is LITERALLY KNOWN as the hardest moba to get into. The one that's the most cut throat. That may or may not be fine overall, but that isn't necessarily the pinnacle of healthy balancing choices. Sometimes the better path is making sure a thriving character isn't going to out-right dismantle your whole team in a match. Sometimes it's making a character more exploitable when you can exploit them. Not everything has to be taken one way.

Now note, I can only go by hear-say, but if this is what I hear, what can I say? (I'm copyrighting that line)

Eddiot8 votes

The reason this is important is so champion identity is kept, riot has tried to do this and in some cases failed(Kass) so to try to call this a stupid thing is well stupid itself as league does it as well.

I am soo NA7 votes

1.) LoL has a way more robust system against chat rudeness due to the new detection system they have recently introduced. The fact that it is a bit hidden (like you can't see people getting banned unless your report triggered it) is something they should add to the game and I believe Lyte already said they are either thinking or will for sure add a monthly report of how many people got punished by your reports. So, overall just because we can't see punishments does not mean the system is not better. And also given the amount of salty people who say they got banned, and then when it is revealed they were indeed rude, they disappear, it shows me the system works just fine.

The reason why they do not want to use reports-only is because, quite understandably, there will be a huge amount of false-positives. The outcry from even one banned player will be huge given how salty the boards are in general.

They also added a feeder-detection system, but currently it is still very cautiously banning people, since again, you can't rely on reports alone and detecting a feeder as opposed to a bad player is their prime concern.

As far as AFK - yes, that's the only thing they need to implement and again, if you actually do a research on what was said lately, there was a rumour they might let players leave with no penalty if there is an AFK player.

So, I have to completely disagree with you about the crime and punishment system here in LoL. It is one of the most advanced one in this MOBA market.

Also, just my opinion: since LoL is so much larger than Dota, the amount of idiots is also larger and community in general is much saltier (I mean, compare any community where many people know each other with communities where almost noone knows each other). To be honest though, I play ranked almost exclusively and see almost no truly rude people. Like if we are losing, yea, there will be some salt, but nothing special.

2.) Balance - to be honest, this argument always astonished me. LoL is quite balanced and you can't just compare the balance we have here to Dota. In Dota it is based on direct countering (like you would not complain there if a hero you chose completely loses to its counter while in LoL it would be a salt mine as soon as such a counter is discovered). In LoL Riot tries to keep champions of the same style to be able to kill each other given equal footing. Also, it is a pre-season now, so some things are not as good (Thunderlords, but they buff other masteries on PBE now ready for the next patch, so this should be settled)

Due to the above, yes, there are some champions that may be a bit weaker, but never it is the case that your champion who is supposed to go mid, say, will have almost no chance against your opponent. Your comp. may suck, but never a lane match-up (unless you pick a troll champ., but even with them you can win sometimes).

You said Lee Sin - and yet balance wise he is balanced. He may be popular but not because he dominates the jungle win-wise. He is like Thresh of the jungle - he is good at almost any meta while others come and go in popularity.

And again, speaking of the balance - please use concrete examples. I am soooo tired to see posts that just they something sucks - guys, we are adults here (even if young), so let us behave like ones.

3.) Yea, i wish we could test champions and I hope they'll add it at some point. A valid point here.

However, speaking of the info - again, with some research we can find that they specifically said that since other websites give already such a good info, they can concentrate on other things rather than take away the work done by websites like Wiki or Surrender@20. Like for example, they can start publishing all changes to PBE through official routes, yet it will destroy Surrender@20. They do not want it.

I mean, I guess having out-of-game detailed info on the official website is nice, but honestly, noone who discovers wiki cares after that point. As a new player back in S3, i did not care about such info in the first place.

4.) True, but again, I believe they said that their philosophy is that they do not want to give too many numbers in game. Agree or disagree, that worked for LoL so far and I don't think they are gonna change it. For me, I'd be glad to see numbers, but honestly, after some time, like with wiki, i don't care anymore. I know everything I need to know and those who do not seek this info won't care about in-game tooltips as well

And again, LoL has its issues, and some are quite big, but let us not go to this circle-jerk again saying it has way more problems than Dota or Smite or whetever. Name them after doing a lot of research.

P.S. Oh, yea, after they'll add a new Team Builder, a lot of problems with toxicity will disappear without even punishing anyone. Name me one MOBA on the market that will have such a robust and powerful system to build a proper team comp.

ModCaptainMårvelous7 votes

Agree with two of your points. (And a lot of it boils down to needing a better client and such)

But DoTA does have balancing problems at points. Remember TI5? Around 12% of heroes had a pick rate over 60%-ish. Two of them actually had 100% pick/ban rates of Gyro and Leshrac. This is more about how DoTA leaves a patch to sit for months on end and make sweeping changes to everyone comparative to League's patch-by-patch rapid fire system of balances. Still, both games do have issues. I'd hardly say DoTA is obscenely better balanced however.

Eddiot3 votes

And if we do a fuller comparison we see that Dota 2 for TI5 had 2 heros with 100% pick/ban rate but only 3 above 90% and out of ~105 heros 94 of them were picked at least once. Vs the worlds for league in which while only one champion had a 100% pick/ban rate 4 of them were above 90% and out of ~125 champions only 74 were picked at least once.

lolptwo6 votes

"How am I supposed to understand them AT ALL if I don't have a good understanding of what they do? "

And this is exactly why you shouldn't be making comments on balance in our game. We don't need more people like you who have no idea how to use or go against "x" champion but whine about it anyways.

Ravenstiker5 votes

At this rate of the game, I might have to go to DOTA2, You kinda confinced me

Drackolus4 votes

And Riot doesn't even care that their game is not balanced. They admitted to not balancing Lee Sin based on the wishes of the community because Lee Sin mains would have a hissy fit. They admitted to nerfing champions to make them unpopular.

Source?

AJking1013 votes

Now I feel like playing Dota 2

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