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AD items have more build diversity than AP items ....

xxxMadLionxxx··2 votes·533 views

AD items can be subdivided into various categories. For example, you have marksmen items, assassin items, and bruiser items. However, when you take a look at AP items, the only category is pretty much mage items. There really isn't much diversity. A lot of items simply offer ap/health and a lot of their passives/actives are a bit dull with the exemption of a few such as... item 3285 item 3157 item 3152 item 3100 item 3115 item 3116 (Rylies is getting nerfed)

If you compare that to ad we have

item 3153 item 3812 item 3147 item 3814 item 3094 item 3046 item 3078 item 3142 item 3508 item 3087 item 3072 item 3053 item 3085 item 3748

From an AD stand point, the only AP item I would envy is item 3152

From an AP stand point, I envy item 3812 item 3147 item 3814 item 3094 item 3046 item 3142

AD items offer movespeed buffs, autoshields, range enhancers, CC shields, Invisibility damage proc, damage reduction, lifesteal. Whereas AP offers stasis, mini dash, and lots of health......

I feel like there is so much more creativity in AD item actives and passives for both defense and offense. Whereas AP, defense means health and zhonyas. AP offense only offers AP stats and the only interesting AP offense active is item 3285

I feel like Riot needs to have another look at AP items because, out of the marksman/mage/assassins rework, AP items drew the short end of the stick.

27 Comments

Maximum Morde3 votes

Liandries. You forgot it. Abyssal is very nice as well.

Big Lincoln2 votes

that's because AP champions are nothing but spells and AP bruisers don't actually work

AD champions have autos and spells, and they host a larger variety of champions to begin with

Maximum Morde2 votes

AP bruisers do work. Just not the same way that AD bruisers work. I play pretty much strictly AP bruiser and it's fine.

Jax Cramer2 votes

Anecdotes from your low elo games do not count. Name one viable AP Bruiser.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Mordekaiser?

Jax Cramer1 votes

Name one viable AP Bruiser,

Ralanr1 votes

Rumble.

Jax Cramer1 votes

builds full dmg and only mage items.

Ralanr1 votes

Because that's pretty much what all AP champions do.

Jax Cramer1 votes

SO all ap champions are bruisers??

Look what Morde builds...thats an AP bruiser.

Ralanr1 votes

No, I mean that AP itemization sucks with diversity because they always make the strongest AP item a core item.

We just had this problem with Rylai's.

Jax Cramer1 votes

What? The point is there are no AP bruisers who are viable. Rumble does not count because he goes Rylais, Liandries, Zhonya, Void Staff and then either Dcap or GA.

And before Rylais became op he rushed Liandries into Hourglass into Void Staff.

Ralanr1 votes

So what defines an AP bruiser if Rumble doesn't count?

Because honestly I felt that the defining point of AP bruisers is that they are melee (whether they are succeeding as AP bruisers is a different topic).

Jax Cramer1 votes

A mix of damage and tank (bruiser items). Mordekaiser for example builds Protobelt, Rylais, Liandries, Deadmans Plate and then GA or Banshees.

And the question of them succeeding or not is an important topic because I could build Talon or Vayne as mages too with 5 AP items and say "oh look we have 2 more mages" even though that would be beyond useless of course. The point is there is no viable AP Bruiser.

Ralanr1 votes

Ok. Fair point.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Define viable then. Because he's currently at a 50% win rate while building bruiser top.

Singed and Swain as well, but I don't really count Swain as he only builds one tank item usually.

Jax Cramer1 votes

I don't consider a sub 1% playrate viable. He is not bad in the right hands but with viable I mean a champion that can be played at the highest levels of play without putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Maximum Morde1 votes

You won't find an ap bruiser champ at high pick rates doing well then outside of their mains. They all have sub 50% win rates in general outside the ones I already listed. Still, as long as their mains can pull positive win rates, and there are many that fit that cetegory, I consider them viable. Otherwise we'd have to say Lee Sin wasn't viable. I think we all know that isn't true.

Jax Cramer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bu2Fdxdx,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-01T16:02:37.660+0000)

You won't find an ap bruiser champ at high pick rates doing well then outside of their mains.

Problem solved. Thats exactly what I mean by non viable.

Btw Lee is the most picked jungler and champion in the entire game and still has a winrate of almost 50%....that's not only viable, that is a clear sign of him being too strong.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Well for an example, Elise builds as an AP bruiser, has a decent enough pick rate, and her mains pull wins just fine. I'd say she's perfectly viable, just needs some practice.

Jax Cramer1 votes

Ok thats a good example. I agree with Elise being a viable AP Bruiser

Big Lincoln1 votes

AP bruisers are basically just melee mages at this point

there is no itemization that can be made for them without standard mages taking advantage of it

Jax Cramer2 votes

There are also AP items which offer AP, Magic Resist and increase your magic damage.

There is no AD item that gives AD and Armór.

There is also an AP item which increases your overall AP by 35%.

There is no AD Item that increases your overall AD.

Your post is incredibly biased and it starts with comparing MAGE items to ADC, BRUISER and ASSASSIN items. So basically you are crying about a single class not having the same item diversity as 3 classes together.

Any mage can build Deathcap, Ludens, Zhonya, Rylais, Liandries, Void Staff, Protobelt, Lich Bane, etc...

No assassin is gonna build Shiv, Phantom Dancer, RFC, Titanic Hydra, Triforce, Hurricane or Steraks

No ADC is gonna build Titanic Hydra, Steraks, Edge of Night and with very few exceptions neither Death's Dance, Ghostblade or Dusklblade

No Bruiser is gonna build Duskblade, BT, Shiv, Phantom Dancer, RFC, Hurricane, Essence Reaver, Ghostblade.

Just a biased thread which is trying to push the narrative of "AP champions being weak".

Ralanr1 votes

I think it's because AP champions usually have more utility than AD champions, hence why AD champions are getting more fancy and unique toys.

Plus AP item diversity sucks IMO because the basics of building AP are the same for all AP champions. You build a fuckton.

As much as I hate marksmen, they have to decide between raw AD, AS, or crit (some items are mixed though). AD Assassins decide between full AD or grabbing some durable AD items. Bruisers pretty much have to grab durable AD items and tank items (unless you go full glass cannon bruiser).

Mages and AP champions really don't have much variety in their builds and I don't think that will change with more AP items because they always tend to make the strongest AP items their core. IMO this is because AP only increases when you get more, you can't get it by leveling, so you try to grab the best items.

HongChongDong1 votes

This was the primary topic for debate before the mage update. Still think riot missed the point entirely with what they put out. Lowered overall AP and stats on various items, compensated with CDR as if that improved things, and added in a few new items and called it a day. Rather than wishing I had cool passives or really stat efficient items like AD champions have, I just wish itemization allowed for the same amount of counterbuilding that AD does.

AD champion in general had all of the possible choices they want in itemization for countering all sorts of situations or champions and it doesn't effect them in damage or utility and it typically all comes at a very efficient cost. This is worsened by the fact that AD champions can incorporate raw tank items into their kit without have any massive drawbacks. Hell, if it's AP then you can 100% guaranteed hard counter any AP champions/lane matchup by building a hexdrinker and merc treads on any AD mid laner and it doesn't have a single drawback at all.

raw AP is the only thing AP champions (other than dedicated AP tanks like swain) can build and with what riot's done/ is doing we're even starting to get less and less AP as they keep cutting the stat from items.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

Still want my AP Essence reaver. 100 AP, 30% CDR, mana regen, and a damage buff.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Unfortunately it looks like raging marksmen mains are going to bury this thread before riot even notices.

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