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Graves Thematic Change Suggestion

Tis a nice day··25 votes·2,220 views

As THE shotgun champion of League, Graves' general theme should be the gravelly cowboy who delivers slow but powerful shots.

With league's current implementation, Graves is essentially no different from any other rapid-firing ADC with a slightly stronger focus on AD (think Sivir or MF).

The main reason for this disjoint between thematic expectation and gameplay mainly stems from Graves' Quickdraw (dash and receive 80% attack speed) which gives you the generic +AS% steroid boost that all other ADCs have.

To further strengthen the theme of slow but powerful shotgun blasts, here's a suggested change for Quickdraw.

Quickdraw ACTIVE: Graves dashes forward and loads his gun, causing his next two attacks to become loaded shots (it's a double barreled shotgun after all). Loaded shots deal bonus physical damage, ignore a %percentage of enemy armor, and reduce the cooldown of quickdraw by 30% each if they hit an enemy champion.

This change is not meant to buff or nerf Graves, only to strengthen his own thematic niche among the crowd of quick-firing gun champions.

tl;dr, Graves should hit harder, not faster.

21 Comments

Kingsgrave3 votes

Honestly I'd like his E to just reset his Autoattack + give him a fuck ton of armor pen for a duration rather than AS

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

I like this Idea. A few suggestions though, the CDR from the loaded shots should prolly be dialed back a wee bit, and what if they did AOE splash damage to further illustrate the shotgun approach?

Tis a nice day2 votes

Dialed back from 40% to 30%. AOE splash would also be a nice thing to have.

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

Another thought. What if instead of affecting his auto attacks casting quickdraw reset the cooldown of his last non-ult ability used? Similar to leblanc's ult. And then quickdraws cooldown is reduced by .5 sec or so for each target hit by the reset ability? Bring out more of the shotgun gunslinger aspect by having him reload when he repositions?

Blackwindy2 votes

Q- dmg reduced by 30% but now can be cast 2nd time within 3 seconds

Im so bad yuck2 votes

That sounds.. awesome. What if Quickdraw was resetting his auto timer and refunding % of manacost vs champions to make him the armor-piercer of the league, relying on heavy blows instead of a flurry of attacks? Or perhaps Quickdraw could be instead increasing his range (Birdshot?) , to make his lategame not as risky while still maitaining his burst shotgun theme.

Gallowgrim2 votes

..I kinda dig the armor pen/aoe burst instead of steroid idea.Actually, I like it a lot.

/signed

4nth0l0gy1 votes

I dunno. I think his E's autoattack steroid is what keeps him reasonably strong late game, when autoattacks matter more. I'm not saying it couldn't work, just might change his strength at different points in the game.

TehNACHO2 votes

To be fair, this might be a step in the right direction. Graves atm sits closer to an AD Caster type ADC, something closer along the lines of Sivir, Varus, or Ezreal, champions who's main strengths come from their active abilities. One notable thing about them is that they have a far smoother power curve throughout the game, with a solid mid game thanks to their abilities but only an on par late game due to lacking hyper scaling.

Cementing Graves as this archetype of ADCs may help give Graves a better defined niche to play in.

Velasan1 votes

I don't like this idea at all lol. Quick draw is one of his best abilities because its CD gets reduced by firing autos. Secondly, it's already thematic in his kit because his AD ratios are huge. His whole strat is based around firing off big cannon shots in peoples faces.

What you are describing is just a reworked version of exactly what lucian does.

I do not want graves to be a second lucian. As you said, keep the big cannon adc theme to graves.

Knight SoIaire 4 votes

What you are describing is just a reworked version of exactly what lucian does. its no diferent than live then

but the guy actualy gives the skill a better fit with graves theme and gameplay pattern, those skills are already almoust the same

keep the big cannon adc theme to graves.

you are contradicting yourself the op proposes a change that makes graves more of a "big shot" while you disagree with it because you want graves to be a "big shot"

Velasan1 votes

I don't see how it fits better with graves than lucian and I wouldn't want graves to just be a lucian copy.

I'm not contradicting myself. You are misinterpreting what I am saying. I'm also not sure why you quote "big shot" since I was actually referring to his cannon. In any case, IMO this doesn't help graves be more of a damage dealer in bursts. It actually reduces the amount of attacks he can get in because he loses the A.S. on quick draw.

My point would be more that he already thematically fits this and doesn't need more help with it. It's his Q and Ulti with high AD scalings that give him the cannon feel. I like graves as he -is- right now. No changes.

Is that easier to understand? lol

Tis a nice day1 votes

So you think his cannon is already big enough? I would disagree (you can never had too big of a cannon :p), but I will respect your opinion if you think Graves works better with lots of smaller attacks over fewer stronger attacks.

Direwolfiez1 votes

I'm okay with this, as long as it doesn't give an AA reset. AA resets on ADCs are incredibly annoying. I also like how it separates him from other ADCs, thematically and gameplay-wise.

Ulric Greatsword1 votes

Yes please! Graves needs more shotgun power!

Lachd1 votes

I had thought about this before as most people build IE on graves first even though he cant crit hit buckshot or ult about what if they let his moves lifesteal even at a lower percentage to emphisize his True Grit theme and let you build BloodThurster first on him insted of IE like a standard auto attacker.

duck077471 votes

imo considering the dudes wielding a shotgun i think he should have a pretty small range but his auto attacks always hit aoe in a cone or something. he would need a pretty decent rework in order to fully fit the shotgun remake. i atm just see him as a adc that likes to get in your face.

CheeseNOnion1 votes

Agree. Now that you brought up a good idea. I have another idea; howabout taking away the (E)dash and replacing it with a knockback coned shotgun pellet blast that debuffs armor (knockback range/total armor shred dependent on if one or both shells are loaded, shell generation will be 1 after the other like a teemo shroom/heimer turret, thus cdr effective)

And, maybe adjust his stats for losing his mobility to something between an off-tank and squishy. They already have the right idea with his innate passive. (maybe shorten his aa range just by a bit for balance, theme and uniqueness to a regular ranged adc)

He would be something like a non-bruiser/non-squishy AD caster (no sustained damage) This would however change his role, if only slightly.

His "exit" skills would be W(soft) and E(hard), even better if you combine the two by knocking the enemy back into the smoke.

Black cleaver would be core on him if Q and E alone can account for 4 stacks armor shred(on top of his own E armor shred), cdr synergy, health is welcome for short range champs. Other items can be AD for his high ratios or gears for survivability (BT and Merc Scimitar should be good on him) Whatever the case, Crit and AS items shouldn't be on the minds of people that are playing him.

So what do you guys think?

edit - aw crap, Vayne already has the knockback mechanic....ok no knockback then, (mini)stun....

Tis a nice day1 votes

He sounds almost like a pure AD caster that just happens to be ranged.

Now that I think about it, we don't actually have any pure ranged AD casters that don't have a steroid/on-hit effect of some sort. Closest one I can think of is Urgot, but his attacks apply a debuff and a slow when his shield's on.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Totally agree, but i think we should go futher in changeing graves. I think his most unique strength is that he's ranged but deals bonus damage to close targets while beeing somewhat tanky. I think buffing his Q and passive a bit would be nice, dahing in someones face and unloding the Q is the most fun and defining element on graves, so it seems like a good idea to further improve it. A slightly higher ad-ratio and less manacost and cd lategame would allow him to actually focus on beeing a caster-carry. Loosing 70%as is a huge lategame dps nerf, so unless u put a stupid amount of damage on the two loaded shots(which would probably cause him to dominate bot by 100-0 the enemy carry with leona or braum at lvl 2), there should be some power aviable to put into his Q.

Also, we need adc-itemchanges if we ever want a more unique carry, as crit-builts->all->caster-builts atm.

SleepyLionCub1 votes

What if the smoke can also interrupted channels?

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