And didnt just totally zone you out once they hit level 3 because they can pretty much 100-0 you with just their 3 abilities, electrocute and ignite?
Ya me too, good thing Riot nerf mages mana though, that was clearly a problem everyone complained about.
Trollmanship57 votesI too remember when an "early laning phase" existed in league.
Danjeng12 votesMidgame begins at level 3 when you have to start contesting scuttle.
SEKAI5 votesMidgame begins at level 3 when you have to start contesting scuttle.
Remember when "mid-game" was post-lvl6?
Danjeng5 votesGet with the times. Level 6 is the "open mid" phase. That's already late game bruh. At this point the next 10-20 minutes turns into a deathmatch of who bursts first. That is until one team bursts harder than the other and ends the game.
Sire Hippington43 votesAs a assasin player, i have to say i don't. past lvl 3, assasins ALWAYS had killpressure vs squishys, it's what allowed them to walk up to a wave and farm it without getting harrased into oblivion.
However, it's true that 100-0 was less likely to happen, they usually either needed to get you to ~70% or just force you out of lane with the all-in. But still, good assasins most of the time had good zoneing if not counterpicked past lvl 3, they always were a class focused on earlygame, solokill-potential and snowballing. And the current 100-0 at lvl 3 with ignite+electrocute is not an assasin thing, it works on any champ with a good all-in as damage overall, especially the upfront damage fron electrocute+ignite, is way to high in general.
Akumu10 votes100-0 was far less likely to happen.
If you were someone like Talon, Zed, Diana ect you'd have to poke a bit first. Now you just straight up all in when they are 100% and get a kill easily often through barrier.
Nevrankroaton2 votesNot any mage could do it but it is true that many mage had the same early pressure than assassin level 3, honestly, it is just that with ignite + eletrocute, you can really try to do a 100% combo when before you needed to have made a good poke/trade before.
Skeletons Grave4 votesI disagree. Very rarely would i see a mage die to an assassin pre 6 in the past. Now if ur mage hasnt died to the assassin by lv 4 you are surprised. It used to be that assassins DID get harrassed into oblivion for at least the first 4 levels. In fact the common answer to first pick assassins was to pick a good harass champ into them for the stronger lvs 1-5. It was common knowledge even that the assassin should be 20+ cs down by lv 6 if the mage was any good. Most mid laners would get judged by how well they did their job of harassing the assassin pre 6. They would also get heavily criticized if the assassin was allowed to roam pre 6. This was all because assassins relied on their ult to kill people.
If you died to a kat, kass, talon, dianna, or akali pre 6 a few years ago, you would be reported for inting or trolling cause you had to be seriously bad to have that happen. Dying to fizz and zed pre 6 was more likely but still not common either. Also even at lv 6, no assassin had 100-0 kill pressure even with ignite unless you where over extended.
If u dont remember that then you havent played for very long. I have mained mid since season 1. Both assassins and mages.
It all started to change with the addition of keystones.
That was when assassins gained more damage from masteries, better wave clear, more sustain, and more threat early. Riot kept increasing assassin base damage for no reason. Kassadin got increased damage and shield on q so he could trade early. Akali was given more sustain and an extra dash for free. Talon was reworked to have kill pressure lv 2. The assassin rework really changed assassins at all stages of the game.
Foxstep10 votesJust got destroyed by an assassin?
Akumu54 votesJust got destroyed by an assassin?
http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics
Notice how all the highest pick rate/winrate champions in mid are assassins and all the mages are at the bottom?
Keep being ignorant tho.
dunder kill12 votesAccording to your own source 9/10 of the highest winrate Mids are AP mages and TF has a higher winrate AND pickrate than all the assassins lol. Nice data
Akali is SO HOT17 votesThere are only 2 assassins in the top 10 winrates
Akumu6 votesFunny how you ignore the part about pickrates. GJ selective reading.
Talon 11.90% Fizz 7.95% Zed 12.49% Ekko 6.13% Kassadin 6.73% Katarina 4.04% Leblanc 9.67%
Meanwhile pretty much every mage is sitting at 1-2%
You sure got me, great response.
Mc Bannon1 votesFunny how you ignore the part about pickrates. GJ selective reading.
Talon 11.90% Fizz 7.95% Zed 12.49% Ekko 6.13% Kassadin 6.73% Katarina 4.04% Leblanc 9.67%
Meanwhile pretty much every mage is sitting at 1-2%
You sure got me, great response.
Pick rate? That doesn't prove anything. It just shows that people are playing them but it doesn't mean that they're good.
Akumu4 votesPick rate? That doesn't prove anything. It just shows that people are playing them but it doesn't mean that they're good.
Actually thats exactly what it means because trash champions dont usually have high pick rates?
charge attack4 votesExcept they do? Ezreal had a 20% pick rate last season when he had a 45% w/r and was objectively bad.
Champs like Lucian, Ez, Lee Sin, Zed have respectable pick rates even when they are bad. When they are good, their pick rates skyrocket.
Mc Bannon1 votesLee Sin, Zed, Yasuo, Fizz, Ezreal, Vayne, and Lucian all get picked regardless of whether they are good or not. Last year you would see Ezreal ADC every other game and he was awful during that time.
aaaustindestroy11 votes404 kat pick rate not found :)
Limrick8 votesThere are also 3 times as many mages as assassins in League. And a good number of assassins are junglers.
IceAYon2 votesWell, the last changes to assassins(duskblade got nerfed and assassins that used it got buffed) give assassins a better chance in late game(basically why Talon and Zed's winrate gone up), compared to before, AD assassins couldn't do anything late game, and no one would take that chance due to ADC meta and games go to 40-50 minutes. It was better off dying as a mage early game and you could win the late game later on no matter what due to your outscale.
NemeBro2 voteshttp://na.op.gg/champion/statistics
Notice how all the highest pick rate/winrate champions in mid are assassins and all the mages are at the bottom?
Keep being ignorant tho.
Today I learned TF, Zoe, Anivia, Malzahar, and Karthus are assassins.
KoKoboto10 votesI actually don't remember assassins having weak laning phases at all. Even from season 3. The only assassin that had a weak laning phase was Fizz because he's entirely melee.
FAKE NEWS
Bârd10 votesLets see...
has always had a lot of kill potential in lane.
back in the day was picked mainly for her lane bullying potential.
was not only known for destroying his opponent early, but also for taking 1.5 towers by the time they got back to lane.
AP 
could just spam E and basically auto-win lane.
has always had a decent early game.
are primarily junglers, so they don't really have much "laning" strength.
So when you say that Assassins had a weak lane phase, you're referring to 
and 
(back when she went mid).
Dr Birdie2 votesI'm sorry. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, but did you just list AP Tristana as an assassin?
Nyoomer10 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Midnight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bmZB8Jmc,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:53:05.897+0000)
I'm sorry. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, but did you just list AP Tristana as an assassin?
You should've seen old AP Tristana. She would jump out of fog of war, one shot you, then jump out. Basically an assassin.
Dr Birdie3 votesOh! I was thinking new Trist.
I remember AP on old Trist. Bully people out of lane with a DOT with grievous wounds on it. And when they let down their guard... SLAM!!!
GrReaper961 votes
Nice cherry picking
Well you also forgot old 
who could all in lvl3 as well i guess
Bârd1 votes fair enough
I remembered Diana, but didn't include her because she's not really an assassin.
She's often lumped in with them, but in her current state she's just a Diver who really wants to be an assassin, like if J4's only viable build was full AD.
Shablagoo7 votesWhich was wrong because assassins are suppose to be strong early so, that was a mistake on riot.
zaire906 votesThey never did except like kat and that was because she had a good lategame which she lost alot of her lategame power for her good early game oh and fizz cause hes completely melee
Marothennan5 votesPost was all nice before it became another mage circlejerk
Zed genius5 votesthat was clearly a problem everyone complained about.
Riot doesn't balance the game around silver players' opinions though
ChaddyFantome4 votesIts almost like Assassins are supposed to be better early and the scenario you described was a mistake from the get-go as a result of the mage meta.
CrestfallenNight4 votesI don't, I don't remember.
DunkmasterDennis4 votesRemember when assassins had a weak early laning phase?
Oh, like when had 25% of First Bloods?
Glory974 votesRemember when midlaners were actually intelligent enough to buy 
on their first back, when they played against or
The thigh guy1 votesRemember when midlaners were actually intelligent enough to buy
too bad that doesn't work against all the ad assassins. -.- so much pen for so little gold you cant win. you can buy a 1300 item (seekers) they the zed buys a 1100 item and still reduces armor to zero.
charge attack3 votesHaha because 25 armour gets reduced to zero with 7 armor pen.
Mc Bannon2 votesWhat are you talking about? Assassins are strong in the laning phase and early game but not late game where everyone has items which increase their survivability. If assassins aren't strong 1v1 starting level 3 where they have pretty much their entire kit that defeats the purpose.
Mages had a lot of wave control, Malz would just drop his e and burn the wave and get his mana back.
Rins Thigh Socks2 votesI'd like to point out that most assassins, not named Akali, Kassadin, or Diana, had extremely strong laning phases once they got all their basic skills.
Kat would always try poke you out really hard if your only defense was a skillshot CC
Zed has always been a post-3 lane bully
Fizz has always been a post-3 lane bully
Talon was a post-3, now he's a post-2 lane bully.
Ekko safely afk-clears the lane until you misstep or he scales up
Hell even Pantheon and Wukong mid were played for their ungodly powerful early laning phases.
If they can't assert themselves in lane how are they going to farm or roam?
SnugglePuggle941 votesAhem. Diana is not an assassin hon. She's a diver.
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesAhem. Diana is not an assassin hon. She's a diver.
Wow so even less assassins have weak early games than I thought, thanks for further helping me disprove OP.
SnugglePuggle941 votesI never said anything about the assassins early games. Just that people always confuse Diana as one when she is classified as something entirely different.
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesI never said anything about the assassins early games.
Then why are you even posting in this thread?
Just that people always confuse Diana as one when she is classified as something entirely different.
I mean, congrats on the validation for parroting Riot, but when the champ has been consistently played as a full AP deathball flank champion with no real tankiness in her itemization and the ability to blow up a squishy in 0.5 seconds, it doesn't really matter what Riot says. She's an assassin.
SnugglePuggle941 votesSorry but no. Riot did mess up with her kit and itemization but she still is not an assassin.
Why?
She has no escapes, plain and simple. Assassins get in, kill, get out. Diana- can get in and kill, but has a shield to stay and fight because she can't get out. Assassins don't have that.
So therefore, she is not an assassin.
SEKAI1 votesI don't recall.
I'd always remembered they had a dominant lane phase and mid-game. But I recalled their waveclear used to suck balls outside of Talon prior to the existence of Zed, and their late-game was typically abysmal outside of 1-shotting the enemy squishy and then die immediately after it.
So either I'm wrong, or OP is wrong.
Akumu2 votesI don't recall.
I'd always remembered they had a dominant lane phase and mid-game. But I recalled their waveclear used to suck balls outside of Talon prior to the existence of Zed, and their late-game was typically abysmal outside of 1-shotting the enemy squishy and then die immediately after it.
So either I'm wrong, or OP is wrong.
I think everyone saying that 'assassins always had strong laning phase' arent understanding here.
Assassins used to get poked down in the early levels, and then get strong after level 6 with definitive kill pressure. Sure you could get a kill pre 6 but it usually required the enemy to make a mistake or otherwise a few trades to lower the opponents HP.
Now assassins literally hit lvl 3 and have 100-0 kill pressure in a single trade. This combined with the mana nerfs to mages means that the early phase where you could get a cs lead and poke down the assassin a little is gone.
SEKAI2 votesI think everyone saying that 'assassins always had strong laning phase' arent understanding here.
Assassins used to get poked down in the early levels, and then get strong after level 6 with definitive kill pressure. Sure you could get a kill pre 6 but it usually required the enemy to make a mistake or otherwise a few trades to lower the opponents HP.
Now assassins literally hit lvl 3 and have 100-0 kill pressure in a single trade. This combined with the mana nerfs to mages means that the early phase where you could get a cs lead and poke down the assassin a little is gone.
Idk man. I recall back in the good o' 'league of ignites' in mid, in the case of most assassins past level 3, whoever pulled a faster one could all-in and dump an Ignite on the enemy and either secure a kill or at least force the opponent to return to base and lose the lane and roaming pressure.
Sure, assassins typically are given a free kill the instant they reach 6, but from what I can remember they always had early game dominance in lane due to their oppressive early-game kill and subsequently zoning pressure all-around.
Though as I was saying, the trade off they had used to be that almost all of them had bad waveclear, had minimal role in the late-game, and they would fall off a cliff and might as well be a moving ward if they couldn't get snowball early. But that's what I have always remembered.
Trollmanship2 votesIdk man. I recall back in the good o' 'league of ignites' in mid, in the case of most assassins past level 3, whoever pulled a faster one could all-in and dump an Ignite on the enemy and either secure a kill or at least force the opponent to return to base and lose the lane and roaming pressure.
Sure, assassins typically are given a free kill the instant they reach 6, but from what I can remember they always had early game dominance in lane due to their oppressive early-game kill and subsequently zoning pressure all-around.
Though as I was saying, the trade off they had used to be that almost all of them had bad waveclear, had minimal role in the late-game, and they would fall off a cliff and might as well be a moving ward if they couldn't get snowball early. But that's what I have always remembered.
Nah, I remember when assassins had problems getting CS early in the laning phase because they lacked range against mages and they lacked the dueling ability to go against strong early laners. Early kills against ranged champions would usually require the assassin to flash on top of them when they got out of position, and early kills against strong laners would be a result of an enemy misplay or a jungle gank. They would then become very strong snowballing roamers if they managed to get a lead. Of course they didn't snowball nearly as hard as champions do now, but they were also less likely to have to deal with enemies snowballing just as hard.
Nausicäa 3 votesNah, I remember when assassins had problems getting CS early in the laning phase because they lacked range against mages and they lacked the dueling ability to go against strong early laners. Early kills against ranged champions would usually require the assassin to flash on top of them when they got out of position, and early kills against strong laners would be a result of an enemy misplay or a jungle gank. They would then become very strong snowballing roamers if they managed to get a lead. Of course they didn't snowball nearly as hard as champions do now, but they were also less likely to have to deal with enemies snowballing just as hard.
^ This.
Heres some examples from my recent games.
Lvl 6 Diana 0 kills with only 
, straight up Rs me without even landing the Q for the reset, drops me from 100 to 10%, have to flash away or die.
In previous seasons if you pulled this shit you would get shit on unless you had a massive lead. Straight up ignoring the mechanics of champion because damage is so absurd.
Zed lvl 6 0 kills with 
Doesnt even ult, straight up W E Q W auto ignite. 100- 0 despite having 
In previous seasons you'd have to poke with Zed before going all in. If you just straight up all ined someone without a large lead or lowered HP you would not get the kill.
Assassins literally dont even have to work for their kills anymore.