Blade Of Dragthar

Woook3r·Feb 3, 2016·1 votes·1,176 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzi4J7eTGuY

Its a stupid fucking AD DFG. 0/4 Jarvan with 65 cs oneshots enemy kalista after missing eq combo

11 Comments

FenrirStrikerFeb 3, 20162 votes

can i ask something ... do assasins really need this ? infact to ad really need this at all ? shouldnt an assasin's target be the adc, mage or other assasins ? this item to be fair just seems like overkill. ok last whisper isnt in the best spot right now, however its upgrades are interesting and could simply use a little tweek. right now the meta is all about damage or so it seems and the only tanks that see play are pretty much just supports or mundo and tham which are the only tanks that are problematic, the rest are bruisers. whit this item, an assasin seems like he could take out a tank no problem. and i dont think that's quite fair

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 3, 20161 votes

you forgot to mention he got his passive auto and his ult off on her, which are gigantic nukes. it's also full AD Jarvan and that shit explodes like nothing else.

Regardless, that's what the item is made for. it's insurance. You're forgetting to include the fact that it's a 2 minute cooldown ,this dude isn't getting the kill, backing, and then doing it over again the moment he gets back to lane. that's a substantial chunk of time waiting for that thing to come off CD.

Woook3rFeb 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best KhaZix Void,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=beyKJZiu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-03T04:09:50.933+0000)

you forgot to mention he got his passive auto and his ult off on her, which are gigantic nukes. it's also full AD Jarvan and that shit explodes like nothing else.

Regardless, that's what the item is made for. it's insurance. You're forgetting to include the fact that it's a 2 minute cooldown ,this dude isn't getting the kill, backing, and then doing it over again the moment he gets back to lane. that's a substantial chunk of time waiting for that thing to come off CD.

so wheres the insurance on the other high risk high reward champions? I guess its fine if the other roles get a handi cap. Also, why don't assassins just build last whisper?

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so wheres the insurance on the other high risk high reward champions? I guess its fine if the other roles get a handi cap. Also, why don't assassins just build last whisper?

Last whisper is straight up dogshit. This item was made to replace that since AD assassins literally can't buy it without gimping themselves.

Other classes have better itemization.

P.S. AD assassins are, for the most part, the highest risk champions in the game.

Woook3rFeb 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best KhaZix Void,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=beyKJZiu,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-03T06:45:40.136+0000)

Last whisper is straight up dogshit. This item was made to replace that since AD assassins literally can't buy it without gimping themselves.

Other classes have better itemization.

P.S. AD assassins are, for the most part, the highest risk champions in the game.

It seems like adc's are that to me. Esp when rengar gets a kill before lvl 6

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It seems like adc's are that to me. Esp when rengar gets a kill before lvl 6

It can seem whichever way you want it to seem, doesn't mean it's not wrong.

A majority of AD assassins have no way out of a fight once they commit (Talon, Rengar, Pantheon, ) or need the kill to get back out (Kha'Zix,)

Zed of course is the exception to this, but his main form of burst is also attached to a timer, which gives clear openings for shields, heals, zhonyas, QSS's, that other assassins don't have to deal with. They're all melee. They're all squishy if they want to do their job properly.

Woook3rFeb 4, 20161 votes

Rengar has a speedboost and a boost to his resistances (the roar). Kah has a reset. I guess you have a point about talon. However, why would there ever be a full teamfight on your map if you were playing as a Talon? Your ultimate is every 50 seconds. The only time you are ever vulnerable is during a teamfight, so why would you ever let the adc live long enough to group?

I think you are very confused. AD assassins might be higher risk than ap assassins, but their only risk is to really just suicide-homicide in an actual 5v5 because they don't have a short cd dash or zhonyas.

The defining feature of all assassins is that they have very little, if any counterplay and that's just a fact. For all of the assassins, you can directly correlate not only their success, but their play rate to the amount of counterplay that they have. Its like a switch. If you add enough counterplay to actually matter, they are not played anymore. See the leblanc W nerf.

Ive been playing a lot of leblanc lately. She is easily the most overpowered champion in the game. Its really no wonder faker has never lost with her. If played well, I don't think there is any means to beat her. Even when you get her to the point where she is almost dead, she becomes untargetable for a decent amount of time and when you can target her again, she has a clone, zhonyas, and potentially two dashes PLUS a flash. Now that she has her dash speed back she is a bulldozer just like she always was. They removed the counterplay.

Like you said, ad assassins are more vulnerable because of a lack of escapes. However, their dmg isn't as strongly linked to cooldowns. How oppressive would it be if leblanc autos hit like a truck too? Actually, im not sure it matters. Shes already 100% oppressive. Anyway, Ad assassins are much like adc's in that regard. They simply have better burst and survivability than an adc.

This is why assassins will never really be fun to play against. They just have obnoxious kits that force you to play on your back foot while they bear down on you. The moment riot gives you a legitimate way to fight back, other than wait for them to overconfidently try to 1v5 your team (its like that saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Eventually, a player just stops showing caution). After you give a proper way to fight back, they become basically useless because they do nothing but kill and no longer have the bully power that the assassins overloaded kit demands.

If you want to know the truth, here's how you balance assassins. 1) Make kills worth less gold so that them doing their job doesn't spiral them out of control. Here is the unacceptable consequence of that: This game becomes about farming. We will never have a balanced game as long as we have those champions. We will just have a meta wheel that keeps spinning.

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Rengar has a speedboost and a boost to his resistances (the roar). Kah has a reset. I guess you have a point about talon. However, why would there ever be a full teamfight on your map if you were playing as a Talon? Your ultimate is every 50 seconds. The only time you are ever vulnerable is during a teamfight, so why would you ever let the adc live long enough to group?

You're moving the goalposts. Talon and Rengar are full of risk because they're, generally speaking, not getting out of a fight once they're in it.

I think you are very confused. AD assassins might be higher risk than ap assassins, but their only risk is to really just suicide-homicide in an actual 5v5 because they don't have a short cd dash or zhonyas.

Do you know what risk means?

The defining feature of all assassins is that they have very little, if any counterplay and that's just a fact. For all of the assassins, you can directly correlate not only their success, but their play rate to the amount of counterplay that they have. Its like a switch. If you add enough counterplay to actually matter, they are not played anymore. See the leblanc W nerf.

This isn't relevant, but i'll bite anyway. Regardless, Most Assassins have counterplay in their setup and not their execution, This is true for some way more than others (compare Talon and Rengar to Zed and Kha'Zix) a well played assassin is usually gonna get the kill 100% of the time because that's what they're for. But proper foresight and planning through champion picks that punish or negate dives (Alistar, Lulu, Janna, Braum, etc.) as well as proper ward coverage and a management of important cooldowns can stop an assassin dead in their tracks.

Ive been playing a lot of leblanc lately. She is easily the most overpowered champion in the game. Its really no wonder faker has never lost with her. If played well, I don't think there is any means to beat her. Even when you get her to the point where she is almost dead, she becomes untargetable for a decent amount of time and when you can target her again, she has a clone, zhonyas, and potentially two dashes PLUS a flash. Now that she has her dash speed back she is a bulldozer just like she always was. They removed the counterplay. Leblanc isn't an AD assassin, AP assassins by and large play vastly different than almost every single AD assassin.

Like you said, ad assassins are more vulnerable because of a lack of escapes. However, their dmg isn't as strongly linked to cooldowns. How oppressive would it be if leblanc autos hit like a truck too? Actually, im not sure it matters. Shes already 100% oppressive. Anyway, Ad assassins are much like adc's in that regard. They simply have better burst and survivability than an adc.

That's entirely untrue. Rengar is one of the few AD assassins to be focused on auto attacks. The rest of them do not build attack speed or crit chance like ADCs do, their autos are not nearly as strong, and they will NEVER win a DPS race with an ADC at point blank. let alone if the carry knows how to properly kite. They are also 100% melee, which is cause to make their autos stronger. Take a note of every single melee assassin, you know what they have in common? they all have empowered autos, whether through building primarily AD, or through abilities and passives. Fizz, Ekko, evelynn, all melee, all have ways to increase or empower their autos. That's the trade off. they have stronger autos because they're melee, whereas ranged assassins don't have that luxury, while they're much safer and forgiving than melee assassins.

besides that, what the hell does auto strength have to do with survivability? You're bringing up advantages to the class but you're neglecting to mention the tradeoffs they have to make to get those advantages.

This is why assassins will never really be fun to play against. They just have obnoxious kits that force you to play on your back foot while they bear down on you. The moment riot gives you a legitimate way to fight back, other than wait for them to overconfidently try to 1v5 your team (its like that saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Eventually, a player just stops showing caution). After you give a proper way to fight back, they become basically useless because they do nothing but kill and no longer have the bully power that the assassins overloaded kit demands.

You have a point that a lot of assassin design is at its core unhealthy to play against, and , I don't think Rengar is a forgiving or healthy champion at all, but at the same time, the burden of counterplay lies upon you just as much as it lies upon riot. If you cannot execute simple gameplay mechanics l etc. to stop a Rengar from facemelting you with his ultimate (ike Pink wards skrimmage lines, counterpicking with anti engage comps,) that's on you, not on riot. There's only so much they can do to make a champion healthy before it's just up to the playerbase to learn how to deal with it.

If you want to know the truth, here's how you balance assassins. 1) Make kills worth less gold so that them doing their job doesn't spiral them out of control. Here is the unacceptable consequence of that: This game becomes about farming. We will never have a balanced game as long as we have those champions. We will just have a meta wheel that keeps spinning.

an assassin that doesn't snowball is an assassin that isn't worth playing. The only thing making kills worth less gold does is stagnate the game and make it longer since risky plays aren't worth the time anymore. it encourages stalling and forgives horrible plays.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Assassins are the only reason the meta shifts? Your bias is showing and boy is it strong.

Woook3rFeb 4, 20161 votes

You read what I write and then go way off.

"You're moving the goalposts" I was telling you that the assassins all have something to help them survive in their kit.

"Do you even know what risk is"

You say risk, but getting the kill is guaranteed as YOU said. That's not risk. That's certainty. I might ask you the same question. They are garunteed to get the kill when they get on a target. NOT RISK. GARUNTEE.

"planning through champion picks that punish or negate dives (Alistar, Lulu, Janna, Braum, etc.) as well as proper ward coverage"

"You have a point that a lot of assassin design is at its core unhealthy to play against, and , I don't think Rengar is a forgiving or healthy champion at all,"

Why dispute any of it just so you can agree with me later? My comments were to say that all of the ad assassins have survivability in one way or another and after that I was making the point that assassins in general are bad to play against because they just lack counterplay that their targets can do. Only the teammates can save the targets or something. That's not fair or fun. Not balanceable either. Will always be underpowered or overpowered. They are good because they are designed to get to an overpowered state.

The ada's just don't have a way to take themselves out of the fight, except kah. They just try and live thru it. You want to call them high risk, but adcs have more risk because they have more uncertainty and less autonomy. Some of their effectiveness is due to support's exhaust and peel. Well i got a graves support last game. Its a risk you cant control, bc you don't control the support. The assassin can control their option to go in and suicide or NOT. That is their choice, not a risk. Why should my life depend on the enemy and my frienemy (my support) more than it does on me?

Edit:

Idk why it posted the same post 3 times. Also some changes so I could makemyself more clear.

Woook3rFeb 4, 20161 votes

You read what I write and then go way off.

"You're moving the goalposts"

I was telling you that the assassins all have something to help them survive in their kit. That's a statement not a goalpost.

"Do you even know what risk is"

You say risk, but getting the kill is supposed to be pretty certain given a setup. Guaranteed as YOU said. That's not risk. That's certainty. I might ask you the same question. Do you know what risk is? They are garunteed to get the kill when they get on a target but not to get out again. NOT RISK. CERTAINTY.

"planning through champion picks that punish or negate dives (Alistar, Lulu, Janna, Braum, etc.) as well as proper ward coverage"

Yes. Thank you for saying this. It allowed me to better express myself. The TARGET has no counterplay. The ADC. The mage. You just listed 4 supports. None of those are primary targets of an assassin. Anyone the assassin might want to kill cant do anything about it. So when he kills me its not my fault because theres nothing I can do about it. I can ward, but really that's exactly what the assassin wants me to do. Go try and ward by myself. That's a good idea when talon is on the map. I'm glad we agree tho. They are unhealthy. Heres the proof. If a bully were going to play league of legends which champions would he play? Which ones torture the enemy most effectively? Make the enemy have the LEAST FUN? Assassins for sure dude. And the game culture is TOXIC. Hmm. Causation?

"You have a point that a lot of assassin design is at its core unhealthy to play against, and , I don't think Rengar is a forgiving or healthy champion at all,"

Why dispute any of it just so you can agree with me later. My comments were to say that all of the ad assassins have survivability in one way or another and after that I was making the point that assassins in general are bad to play against. Not fun. Not balanceable. Will always be underpowered or overpowered. They are good because they are designed to get to an overpowered state.

The ada's just don't have a way to take themselves out of the fight, except kah. They just try and live thru it. You want to call them high risk, but adcs have more risk because they have more uncertainty and less autonomy. Some of their effectiveness is due to support's exhaust and peel. Its a risk you cant control, bc you don't control the support. The assassin can control their option to go in and suicide or NOT. That is their choice, not a risk.

Woook3rFeb 4, 20161 votes

You read what I write and then go way off.

"You're moving the goalposts"

I was telling you that the assassins all have something to help them survive in their kit. That's a statement not a goalpost.

"Do you even know what risk is"

"planning through champion picks that punish or negate dives (Alistar, Lulu, Janna, Braum, etc.) as well as proper ward coverage"

"You have a point that a lot of assassin design is at its core unhealthy to play against, and , I don't think Rengar is a forgiving or healthy champion at all,"

The ada's just don't have a way to take themselves out of the fight, except kah. They just try and live thru it. You want to call them high risk, but adcs have more risk because they have more uncertainty and less autonomy. Some of their effectiveness is due to support's exhaust and peel. Its a risk you cant control, bc you don't control the support. The assassin can control their option to go in and suicide or NOT. That is their choice, not a risk.

"Are you seriously trying to imply that Assassins are the only reason the meta shifts? Your bias is showing and boy is it strong."-No and I have no idea how you read that into what I wrote. Thanks for asking tho!