Riven just feels like she can get 2 kills at lvl 3 and completely out scale everyone.

50CaliberHecate·Aug 24, 2019·21 votes·10,437 views

Am I wrong? Does she not seem a bit strong?

62 Comments

hhaavviikkAug 24, 201915 votes

considering riot is all about ''muh clarity'' why Riven is still allowed to eixst in the way she is is beyond me.

there's 0 clarity in riven, you never know if it's a ''normal'' riven who takes a couple of seconds to unleash their kit or if it's a riven who animation cancels and drops her entire kit on you in the form of a nuke in a split second leaving you wonder what in the actual hell just happened

Jesi OniAug 24, 201910 votes

What nerf? CD is hardly a nerf without touching neither sustain nor damage. This few seconds means nothing to me 😭

Why ALL her abilities scale with AD?

Why Shen shields scale with AP?!?

[sg-lux-2]

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20192 votes

Because Shen isn't meant to build AD?

ModAcademy KaynAug 25, 20194 votes

But Shen's Shield for himself scales with Max Hp, and last i checked, Riven couldn't shield others from halfway across the map. Comparing a single aspect of a kit with a single aspect of another champion in a void is dumb.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20193 votes

I don't think you meant to reply to me, fam.

ModAcademy KaynAug 25, 20193 votes

Woops, too late now i guess.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20191 votes

Oh well. :P

Glamorous RammusAug 24, 20199 votes

Any champ with an energy/fury bar that can spam dashes that end in a stun are unbalanced imo. Renekton's dash is bonkers. Rivens dashes are nuts. Yasuo stacking Qs can be insane. Then the champions that are designed to counter the fighters are constantly nerfed.

It's like if Riven isn't allowed to spike her full combo then whatever champ stopping her needs tuning?

overpoweredscrubAug 24, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glamorous Rammus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-24T18:14:18.664+0000)

Any champ with an energy/fury bar that can spam dashes that end in a stun are unbalanced imo. Renekton's dash is bonkers. Rivens dashes are nuts. Yasuo stacking Qs can be insane. Then the champions that are designed to counter the fighters are constantly nerfed.

It's like if Riven isn't allowed to spike her full combo then whatever champ stopping her needs tuning?

I agree with the resourceless champs and spamming. It's really unfair how others can spam because they don't have a resource to worry about while others do. Riven is no weak champ, having 4 dashes because q 3 times and e dash, having a knock up on the 3rd q, having a shield from e dash, having an aoe stun with w. And all of that cost no mana. It just really makes no sense why she uses no mana with abilities like that other than that maybe riot made her not use mana because her 3 qs will make her go oom too fast? Or going oom mid fight will stop her from doing combos? I have no idea.

8Belthazor8Aug 24, 20193 votes

Yes, because mana users have to worry about their mana so much. They cannot just spam their abilities like a r%%%%% after they bought their first item that gives them at least 900 mana and 20 cdr...

LordGeovanniAug 25, 20191 votes

~~Mana users~~ Mages

T2K BakaAug 25, 20191 votes

Katarina is not as spammable, she's got pretty high cd for her abilities, if you don't get reset of course. Then she becomes almost as spammable as riven

overpoweredscrubAug 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-08-25T11:12:28.820+0000)

Katarina is not as spammable, she's got pretty high cd for her abilities, if you don't get reset of course. Then she becomes almost as spammable as riven

Well katarina isn't the only resourceless champ. But katarina definitely is spammable. You can spam her daggers all day without worry which bounces with several targets and slowly can wittle the other opponent down unless they have crazy sustain. Her cooldowns are not even that high. I play ap graves where his cooldown is like 20 seconds on w. You don't know what long cooldowns are if you think kat has long cooldowns. You also have to remember that the game currently has a lot of cdr items. Kat can easily reach short cooldowns with no mana cost by simply buying ludens echo for some burst and 20 cdr. And there are plenty other items with cdr so cooldown isn't really a big deal. But garen, yasuo, riven, gnar definitely have much shorter cooldowns that they can spam for days.

T2K BakaAug 25, 20191 votes

First of all ur playing ap graves, comparing an ability that makes enemies near sighted, of course its gonna be long at lvl 1. Graves is a more aa based champ, while having his main ad abilities with low cd. Kat's blink is pretty long compared to other mobility spells without a reset, and her q has little dmg. You try spamming her q's "without worry" since you don't know what minion aggro or laning is. Why would u get a luden's on kat now? 600 mana is wasted and the cost is not worth it, it might be a good item sometimes, but after it became a mage item, its not as efficient on kat. Thinking about it, the only item she gets normally that provides cdr is zonyas. morello, void, deathcap, liandry, gunblade, do not provide any cdr. Maybe if you include DD now that u can go conq on her, but only if you go conq. So most of ur arguments are invalid. main point is that compared to the other midlaners, her cooldowns are high, that it without her resets.

overpoweredscrubAug 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T17:56:18.378+0000)

First of all ur playing ap graves, comparing an ability that makes enemies near sighted, of course its gonna be long at lvl 1. Graves is a more aa based champ, while having his main ad abilities with low cd. Kat's blink is pretty long compared to other mobility spells without a reset, and her q has little dmg. You try spamming her q's "without worry" since you don't know what minion aggro or laning is. Why would u get a luden's on kat now? 600 mana is wasted and the cost is not worth it, it might be a good item sometimes, but after it became a mage item, its not as efficient on kat. Thinking about it, the only item she gets normally that provides cdr is zonyas. morello, void, deathcap, liandry, gunblade, do not provide any cdr. Maybe if you include DD now that u can go conq on her, but only if you go conq. So most of ur arguments are invalid. main point is that compared to the other midlaners, her cooldowns are high, that it without her resets.

the point im trying to make is i dont know what you consider long cooldown. Im used to playing with cooldowns around 10-20 seconds. Kat doesnt not have that short of a cooldown to me since i play with characters who have cooldowns around 10-20 seconds long. Yet you say kat's cooldowns are long unless you get resets which is not really true. You can definitely spam q and shunpo, get a good burst of damage and then run back. If the enemy has cc then just spam q daggers until they are low enough that you can kill them in 1 combo aka q shunpo ignite r.

On the argument where you say mana is wasted. Luden's is already good without the mana. The mana is just a bonus. Just because a champ doesn't utilize damage doesn't mean they can't use mana items. Look at garen for instance. Most people always said garen can't benefit from sheen or trinity force because he doesnt have mana, but that doesnt mean you can't build sheen. And it's not that bad of an item because you get insane split push power since your q on garen will proc sheen and hit towers hard. If you think what I say is dumb like everyone else who says im a troll if i say that, even riste does it and he is masters as garen. Void staff, morello, deathcap, and liandries dont provide cdr. Morello has been changed to give you grievous wounds and magic pen along with some health and ap. Also, katarina does not make minions aggro you wtf? Only single target abilities and auto attacks do and before that it was just basic attacks. What season are you living in? The only thing that kat has that aggros minions is her basic attack and probably shunpo since it's a single target ability.

T2K BakaAug 25, 20191 votes

The only thing that kat has that aggros minions is her basic attack and probably shunpo since it's a single target ability.

wtf? Do u even lane?

Void staff, morello, deathcap, and liandries dont provide cdr. Morello has been changed to give you grievous wounds and magic pen along with some health and ap.

What r u trying to prove with this? I said these don't give u cdr

On the argument where you say mana is wasted. Luden's is already good without the mana. The mana is just a bonus. Just because a champ doesn't utilize damage doesn't mean they can't use mana items. Look at garen for instance.

This is always the case, as a midlane assassin, you want things like more ap and pen, with a little bit of room to survive, while using the item slots and the gold you have efficiently. Luden's isn't as gold efficient anymore with the 600 mana. Garen utilizes almost everything from triforce except mana, but sheen's passive makes up for it.

you can definitely spam q and shunpo, get a good burst of damage and then run back. If the enemy has cc then just spam q daggers until they are low enough that you can kill them in 1 combo aka q shunpo ignite r

I'm assuming u don't play mid lane since you would know that spamming q and shunpo is not as easy as it sounds. For an assassin midlaner she has some pretty high mobility cd.

overpoweredscrubAug 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T19:34:03.363+0000)

wtf? Do u even lane?

What r u trying to prove with this? I said these don't give u cdr

This is always the case, as a midlane assassin, you want things like more ap and pen, with a little bit of room to survive, while using the item slots and the gold you have efficiently. Luden's isn't as gold efficient anymore with the 600 mana. Garen utilizes almost everything from triforce except mana, but sheen's passive makes up for it.

I'm assuming u don't play mid lane since you would know that spamming q and shunpo is not as easy as it sounds. For an assassin midlaner she has some pretty high mobility cd.

How hard is it to spam q and hit people? If they stand near their minions to last hit, you just hit the backline ranged minions and it will bounce onto the enemy. If the enemy is close enough, just point and click q onto them to throw the dagger right at them. It's not that hard dude. And definitely does not aggro minions

T2K BakaAug 26, 20191 votes

And definitely does not aggro minions

Yes it does, i don't know why u cant seem to understand this part

How hard is it to spam q and hit people? If they stand near their minions to last hit, you just hit the backline ranged minions and it will bounce onto the enemy.

Most times people will walk away from this unless they are trash, then get hit by it. You seem to assume people are dumb when they go against kat. Anyone with a brain can easily beat her in lane.

Again you dont play midlane so you don't know how much more difficult it is to play kat against other mids, such as yasuo, akali, diana, zed, lux, kass, lb, fizz. I can walk up and q, but i will draw minon aggro, and will take alot more dmg from them trading back

overpoweredscrubAug 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=000200000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-26T09:32:55.594+0000)

Yes it does, i don't know why u cant seem to understand this part

Most times people will walk away from this unless they are trash, then get hit by it. You seem to assume people are dumb when they go against kat. Anyone with a brain can easily beat her in lane.

Again you dont play midlane so you don't know how much more difficult it is to play kat against other mids, such as yasuo, akali, diana, zed, lux, kass, lb, fizz. I can walk up and q, but i will draw minon aggro, and will take alot more dmg from them trading back

obviously if you throw the q at a champ it will. But most people who lane against a kat won't stay close enough to get hit by her q. That's stupid cuz they are setting themselves up to get shunpo on and eat a large burst of damage. That's why kat's q normally doesn't aggro minions because the way a kat player would use it, is they throw it at a backline minion and it bounces to the other 2 ranged minions and then onto the enemy champ. Wtf? Are you not doing this? If you do this, you don't aggro minions so idk wtf you are on about.

T2K BakaAug 26, 20191 votes

throw it at a backline minion and it bounces to the other 2 ranged minions and then onto the enemy champ.

Thought u meant directly at the champ, so there was a little miscommunication there.

Most players i got against move around to avoid the third dagger so it's not that easy. Also most midlaners have abilities that can be thrown back at the same time, with higher range and damage on it. It really depends on who u go against while playing kat

overpoweredscrubAug 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-26T20:57:47.813+0000)

Thought u meant directly at the champ, so there was a little miscommunication there.

Most players i got against move around to avoid the third dagger so it's not that easy. Also most midlaners have abilities that can be thrown back at the same time, with higher range and damage on it. It really depends on who u go against while playing kat

In a high level game, no kat ever just throws a q directly at an enemy in lane unless they know they can jump in for the kill or a huge burst that they can safely go in for because they have lead. Or if the opponent is under your minion wave then it's safe to throw the dagger at him as if he tries to fight, he will take minion aggro from your minion. I thought I wouldn't have to explain this. In a high level game, most mid laners will sit behind their backline ranged minions that's why you have to target the backline minions to let the dagger bounce and catch up to the enemy. If they don't walk up, you just sit there near the minions and wait till they walk up because they will have to eventually to cs. While you wait, you last hit minions.

LordGeovanniAug 25, 20191 votes

Well good thing her spells arnent all nuke's and aoe so she doesnt have to worry about aiming that much to get those resets...... oh wait. My problem with all the assassins are these massive damage aoe abilities but supposedly they are supposed to target one person and assassinate them (while nuking several others because mah fat aoe)

T2K BakaAug 26, 20191 votes

Well good thing her spells arnent all nuke's and aoe so she doesnt have to worry about aiming that much to get those resets...... oh wait.

Good thing that her spells like her W, which gives movement speed ONLY, does so much damage, or her shunpo with 75 dmg late game, or her 30% ap scaling q, are meant to nuke..... oh wait.

Her only damage is her passive and ult, even with ur ult its not that great since ur rooted while using it making u an open target. Her passive is 80% of her damage and it is pretty easy to avoid. Without resets, she can't do anything, and without gunblade she is not a champ.

LordGeovanniAug 27, 20191 votes

Her W spawns her Dagger so does her Q so beyond their spell effects daggers would be counted as part of their spells damage.

T2K BakaAug 27, 20191 votes

no it wouldn't. It would be part of ur passive damage, not w

LordGeovanniAug 30, 20191 votes

the passive that effectively doesnt exist if you dont use your Q or W The passive is just a description of the second part of Q and W because they didnt want it to to just read fully rest all your basic abilities and 15 seconds off of ult.

Daddy AntsAug 24, 20195 votes

The champion is fine.

People are just whining because they don't know how to play against her.

Zane ZephyrAug 24, 20193 votes

I'm not that great at top lane but I usually shit on riven 3/4 times I go against her. You can beat her with quite a number of champions.

5050BSAug 24, 20193 votes

The issue with Riven (like a hand full of champs) is that there is a skill threshold that once you hit it you can win vs most any champ played by even more skilled players then you.

She then becomes a stat check champ.

Riot is delusional and thinks this skill level is like Masters level but its not. Riven is a stupidly simple champ that build ONE stat.

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 25, 20193 votes

hasn't she always been a snowball champion?

Soul DealerAug 24, 20192 votes

She is better after the nerf. The issue is conq and will always be conq until it is removed.

Death by GlamourAug 24, 201916 votes

The issue has nothing to do with conqueror, its the animation cancelling...

Soul DealerAug 24, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T18:12:28.043+0000)

The issue has nothing to do with conqueror, its the animation cancelling...

Her animation cancelling is actually hard to pull off sometimes. I want you guys to think back to season 7 before conq and spear where in the game. Back then I would rarely see riven and even when I did see her I didn’t complain because she wasn’t broken. Now with conquer giving her access to true damage and spear making her cd non existent she is extremely problematic ( granted riven doesn’t always build spear) . If spear and conq were not in the game then not only would riven be in a more balanced state but Jax and Renekton would be too.

mark6028Aug 24, 20197 votes

Neither spear nor conq makes her overpowered lmao.

She has been broken since forever the first and only time she was quite bad was season 6 but riot made sure to give her 150 base dmg on ult and some other ridiculous buffs since then she has always been overpowered.

Except season 8 where EVERY melee fighter was absolutely unplayable into tanks. Right now it's especially death's dance that is breaking her due to her on demand shield. Making her tankier than a maokai while having ridiculous base dmg and scalings.

Z3SIeeperAug 25, 20193 votes

"It's not Riven that's overpowered it's that she can utilize runes and items that aren't broken on any other champion." - Riven Mains

They're too busy animation cancelling their logical thought process to be reasoned with.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20191 votes

"Not broken on any other champion"

#O M E G A L U L

Z3SIeeperAug 25, 20192 votes

Obviously not SoS.

feintfiendAug 24, 20192 votes

Yes Riven is broken but this post doesn't address why she's broken, if anything this delegitimizes people who argue riven is broken.

Summoner SpeIIAug 25, 20191 votes

watch the replay of my latest game against riven. I absolutely stomped her with no counterplay what so ever https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=summoner+speii

LakissesAug 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner SpeII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bbQxtfwH,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-08-25T02:26:08.479+0000)

watch the replay of my latest game against riven. I absolutely stomped her with no counterplay what so ever https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=summoner+speii

Yeah, exactly.. Riven is easy af to beat if she dont know how to play or know any of her combos.. 💀

Kai GuyAug 25, 20192 votes

How dare you imply that casual players need take time to learn the game! We deserve to climb simply for investing more time on our 1 favorite champion who is always weaker then every other viable pick and riots stupid for not buffing them to s tier status like all the other overloaded kits that do... Somrthing I vaguely understamd because it killed me 11 time but I did not look up online.

If you disagree study fanboy. How stupid are you to not see I'm telling truth and your a big dumb do do head for being a fan of the thing you willingly invest your free time in. Hobbys are supposed to be something You hate. Stupid face!

I might have overdone the sarcasm here. Meh.

Summoner SpeIIAug 25, 20191 votes

that guy is a 300 game riven main in diamond 1

RagnaveilAug 25, 20191 votes

Something about a auto enhancer that is easily applied plus a execute with a Ad booster on it that also hits in a AoE seems really balanced.

The Stripy BagAug 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Something about a auto enhancer that is easily applied plus a execute with a Ad booster on it that also hits in a AoE seems really balanced.

Shut up Ezreal. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

hoganftwAug 25, 20191 votes

Yeah you can beat her, but she's a disgusting champion whether she's balanced, meta, or not. She was disgusting when she first came out and the reason why League is filled with overloaded kits is because the devs wanted to capture lightning twice, thrice, and then some. It doesn't help that she's a premier skin seller and her fanbase is so rabid that Riot refuses to nerf her or rework her in any meaningful way.

The Stripy BagAug 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah you can beat her, but she's a disgusting champion whether she's balanced, meta, or not. She was disgusting when she first came out and the reason why League is filled with overloaded kits is because the devs wanted to capture lightning twice, thrice, and then some. It doesn't help that she's a premier skin seller and her fanbase is so rabid that Riot refuses to nerf her or rework her in any meaningful way.

So Kai'sa?

SaevumAug 25, 20191 votes

At least she gets to chill a little bit longer during the early levels, which is a window to punish her if she gets greedy. You should have seen Riven without tweaks. Permabanned.

Pòop SockAug 26, 20191 votes

riot doesn't care lol they'll keep giving her the most useless nerfs imaginable instead of tackling the real issue. riven mains are everywhere and stroking their inflated ego watching box box trap cosplay on how amazing, balanced and difficult champion they're playing