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Can Zed's second shuriken not proc Electrocute please?

50CaliberHecate··110 votes·19,599 views

Zed has complete freedom to do whatever he wants simply because his second Shuriken can hit an enemy and proc Electrocute. It doesn't matter if you have shields in your kit, barrier, or even zhonyas, with him having no mana costs and being able to constantly spam his combo, you can't do anything against him because of Electrocute. I don't consider this advantage on him balanced at all, especially if Zed is going to build Duskblade first to shred through any armor you build early game. Remove this and Zed will be A LOT more tolerable to play against.

EDIT:

So I reevaluated peoples comments in this post. There is in fact an inconsistency with Electrocute that Zed somehow gets to dance around. Zed can proc electrocute but:

Ahri W Ekko Q Heimerdinger Q (Turrets combined Autos) Talon W Riven Q (stacked 3 times on enemy)

All these champions use spells that do additional damage with additional damage being taken, yet, the spells don't proc electrocute. However, again, Zed gets some sort of freedom to do whatever he wants.

182 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon107 votes

I mean, it does say Unique spells.

If getting hit 3 times by Ahri's W doesn't proc electrocute, there's no reason for Zed's Q to count two as two hits just because it comes from his W as well.

50CaliberHecate20 votes

Exactly!

wildfox9945 votes

no bias i swear

DuskDaUmbreon36 votes

I mean, there's a tiny bit of bias, sure, but I honestly just picked the first champion I saw in the list.

For an example from a champion I don't play: we also don't let Talon's W count as two hits, even if both parts hit.

wildfox9929 votes

i meant riot toward zed

[sg-miss-fortune]

TempName548467 votes

yeah riot is biased towards a champion that has never been unviable, oh the poor ahri players.

wildfox996 votes

ahri actually is so bad atm,after the recent buffs only in high elo but it took basically a season for just doing that

anyway she's still not a good pick and she gets outclassed by any other mid laner,idk what are you talking about

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

reminder : her WR is around 50% because she's so easy to carry and so safe as pick,but she doesn't have the same carry potential of other assassins

TempName5484614 votes

yeah buddy why can't the safest and one of the easiest mid laner also carry as hard as risky picks, must be terribly under-powered! of course i get it, you much like other ahri mains are used to her being at 55% win ratio broken as fuck state so anything bellow that needs buffs now.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

I mean, it does say Unique spells.

If getting hit 3 times by Ahri's W doesn't proc electrocute, there's no reason for Zed's Q to count two as two hits just because it comes from his W as well.

You have a fair point there.

ForFoxSakes17 votes

Ahri W is a single cast

Zed to throw double shurikens needs 2 ability casts

Crescent Dusk4 votes

{quoted}

Ahri W is a single cast

Zed to throw double shurikens needs 2 ability casts

Tortured logic. The W gives you a shadow. The shuriken comes from the Q. What you get from the W is doubled benefits, anyways. You get a copy of your skills on top of a teleport.

AlienPrimate8 votes

As a Taric main, this begs the question of if my E hits someone twice does that proc electrocute. It doesn't do more damage if it hits twice, but I had to cast W and E to hit the same enemy twice with it.

my nama jeff4 votes

zed cast W and Q = two spell casts for 2 electrocute stacks ahri press W = 1 spell cast for 1 electrocute stack

i don't see the problem

Tegash14 votes

except any other champion who casts a non-damaging ability doesn't get an electrocute stack for free.

Aatrox doesn't get one for casting E Akali doesn't get one for casting W Anivia doesn't get one for casting W Annie doesn't get one for casting E Ashe doesn't get one for casting E

i could go on to list every champion who should get a free electrocute proc by your logic, but that would be a disproportionate amount of effort spent to refute a claim this ludicrous and lazy.

imagine, if you will for a moment, if Jayce could pop electrocute on you for free by casting R twice and then AAing you in ranged form.

Auz the Ripper6 votes

I think a better analogy would be if Jayce's W-Q in ranged form counted twice for electrocute.

my nama jeff6 votes

you can't count zed W as a non-damaging ability when it can literally do damage when you use another ability. it makes no sense to compare it to Aatrox E etc. the examples you give are completely different from zed's situation.

Tegash2 votes

you can't count ivern bush as a non-damaging ability when it can literally do damage if ivern walks into it and AA's you. it makes no sense to compare it to anivia wall and other terrain abilities. the examples you give are completely different from ivern's situation.

ftfy

Your opinion is nonsensical and biased.

Zed's W does not hit the opponent. Q-ing counts as 2 spellcasts, because Zed's shadow is either treated as a separate champion, or an untargetable pet, casting a separate instance of the spell.

If he is allowed to get a free proc of Electrocute TWICE (because his double E is also treated as one), but other champions with powerful high-cooldown abilities need to AA at least once, that is called favouritism.

Shablagoo4 votes

I meant it makes sense, its hitting two different spells, on from regular q and another from his shadow, compared to the same spell. Also it is a spell in itself which is the w. Thats like saying his w shouldnt count as a spell.

SooFr0sty5 votes

Isn't the second shuriken from his W tho?

Sona Ping4 votes

{quoted}

Isn't the second shuriken from his W tho?

That's the origin point. That's what his W does; it changes where spells come from.

It's still a Shuriken, the spell cast is still a Q. It's still even described on the Q as what the Q does.

Eedat34 votes

Spam out a combo that has 22 second CD...... I dont think you understand what spamming means

Bob the Toastr16 votes

Except it doesn't cost mana and if he hits Q + Q + E + electrocute there's half your health or more

PaffWasTaken16 votes

Considering that most immobile midlane champions also rely on similar cooldowns but with a much lower execution speed and potential damage...

Whenever the enemy can almost oneshot you every 20-ish seconds, you can basically call this spamming since other champion also capable of doing so rely on much higher cooldowns since they rely on their ult, and not on a rune who can almost blast off the quarter of the life of the medium midlane squishy at level 3...

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

At level one, no mage relies on a 22 second ability. At level 6, the highest thing is their ult, not their basics.

bbQsauçe9 votes

[deleted]

wildfox9920 votes

-1

my nama jeff9 votes

if you are getting hit by both zed q's and his e then you deserve to get electrocuted. "constantly spam his combo" his W has a 20+ second cooldown... "having no mana costs" okay he has energy costs.. sure it regens faster, but when he is low on energy you can still engage on him. "build Duskblade first to shred through any armor" dude do you know how the game works? armor>lethality. armor pen = black cleaver/last whisper. not lethality.

Crescent Dusk3 votes

[{quoted}](name=my nama jeff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ONOcHXRk,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-19T23:08:58.682+0000)

if you are getting hit by both zed q's and his e then you deserve to get electrocuted. "constantly spam his combo" his W has a 20+ second cooldown... "having no mana costs" okay he has energy costs.. sure it regens faster, but when he is low on energy you can still engage on him. "build Duskblade first to shred through any armor" dude do you know how the game works? armor>lethality. armor pen = black cleaver/last whisper. not lethality.

Half smart zed will never waste energy pushing. He'll only use energy to poke you down and give up cs because by lv3-6 he can all in and kill most mages regardless of CS gap.

Automated Riven5 votes

Ok. Let's run a senario. Zed throws weq and now what do you do?

The correct answer is spend 20 seconds standing on his side of the minion wave last hitting and harrassing him.

Then you let him push back up to the minions and IF you eat harrass you let it damage your minion. And then he is shoving by harrassing.

If you are a ranged champion you should never get hit by both Q's. Because you should never be that close to him if it and his w is up. (or e idk I don't play him) If you lose lane to zed you are fucking up. Learn from it and play better.

Highwiseene5 votes

I think your heart is in the right place by giving advice here, but it's not really that true in all cases.

Before you shove him in and try to harass him, you of course need to think about where the jungler is and where he will be in the next couple of waves.

Also, if zed hits you with a weq you're in lethal. There's no if ands or buts about it. The second his q and e are up he's going to try to kill you with flash + ignite + abilities, so harassing him really isn't an option.

But yes, as general advice against zed you want to try to get lane priority and harass him in most matchups, you just need to be mindful of the enemy jungler. You can make zeds so far behind and so scared of you they don't even dare to try to all in at 6 by messing them up in lane, but it does require a decent amount of game knowledge to pull it off(tracking jg, basic wave manipulation)

Automated Riven8 votes

I agree to be consistent this should be a thing as zed q and shadow q should be the same ability. But if your getting hit by double Q's in lane as a ranged champion you are positioning poorly.

PaffWasTaken7 votes

The worst champs to play against Zed are artillery/immobile mages. The thing with those champs is that they don't even NEED to position badly for Zed to have an opening against them, since they have literally no way to avoid, punish or counterplay anything ultra-mobile assassins like Zed will throw at them. Add an insane range, a busted rune and several ability hits who were buffed non stop for several patches, and you got yourself an entire class of champions who are basically useless against one single enemy, good positioning or not

ninjaroxas8 votes

I'd rather they just remove electrocute all together, but it's pretty inconsistent for zed WQ to count as two procs when nothing else does

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

It isn't inconsistent. He uses two spells. WQ. Doesn't matter if the W mimics something. It is two unique spells used it is working as intented. Leblanc QR counts for two proccs too despite it being the same spell.

kile1471 votes

Don't remove it, remove PTA and rework electrocute to be more of a middle ground between the two.

Thunderlord's Edict: Basic attacks and abilities generate stacks on enemy champions hit, up to one per attack or cast. Applying 3 stacks to a target within a 3 second period causes them to be struck by lightning, dealing 25 - 120 (based on level) (+40% Bonus AD)(+25% AP) Adaptive Damage, and makes them Exposed for 6 seconds.

Exposed: Targets will take 8%-12% (based on level) more damage from all subsequent sources.

Feedback: Taking down a target while Exposed will refund 20%-80% (based on level) of Thunderlord's total cooldown.

Cooldown: 60 - 30 (based on level) seconds

I am a little torn between using the feedback passive, or having it have an internal 6 second cooldown (same as PTA) but have a per person cooldown of 60 seconds.

Assassins being able to proc a damage amp on 3 spells/autos would benefit their delayed damage (which has more counterplay) and would decrease their binary behavior by giving them more utility. Less upfront damage than electrocute with damage amp utility to compensate, and more damage than PTA with a longer cooldown to compensate.

ninjaroxas3 votes

I don't want it because it's just more damage for doing something you were gonna do anyways, I'm not a fan of pta either but it at least has to be auto attacks.

the other damaging runes have more to them. Arye can be used as a shield, comet can be dodged, dark harvest has to be stacked and only works on auto's.

Any form of Tld or electrocute or whatever riot calls it will never be healthy in my opinion. I mean what assassin doesn't take it?

Noor Sakata7 votes

exactly , Riven Q Ahri Q , W Talon W can't do that but I guess in Zed case it's being able to proc electro because he uses E then shurinkens Q and the second shurinken is counted as if it came from W , so probably the system is considering his W as a damage ability

Tegash6 votes

Zed's W is probably coded as an untargetable minion, which is why the WQ combo counts as two separate instances of Q.

SH Azykan4 votes

Heimerdinger turrets should be able to proc it then if you get hit by 3 different ones, yet they dont?

Pika Fox6 votes

Why wouldnt it proc? Literally everything else that procs multiple times counts as separate procs to electrocute.

Automated Riven10 votes

Actually that's incorrect. If you use rivens q three times it won't proc electrocute.

As far as I know Zed's q is the only one which can.

Leetri4 votes

Might be cause Zed is the only one who needs to cast 2 abilities in order for the 2nd Q to even appear. It's hard to say if it actually doesn't work properly because there's AFAIK no other kit that can do that. Everyone else just uses a single ability, or at best they use 2 abilities but still only damage with 1.

zaqat5 votes

I actually remember when zed really required skill, now a shitty zed can 100-0 an adc at lvl 9 with item 3147 item 3142 , R, 1 E, and electecute, no Qs hit required.

ForFoxSakes3 votes

how the fuck does he have those at level 9

sobi9994 votes

This needs more attention. This change alone can make playing Zed require more skill and not take half my health from afar and then just ult me on the next cooldown, even if i am under tower.

Mages need at least the advantage of poke over melee assassins for compensating them with so much damage and enough mobility to kill and escape.

Oakleaf Ranger6 votes

Mages need at least the advantage of poke over melee assassins for compensation

Oh i guess being a ranged champion isn't a advantage anymore.

Dream High4 votes

No bias for AD assasins at all. Riot doesn't cater to the younger player base who need to carry by making it as easy as possible on their "mechanical" champs. /s

Galaxy Destoryer3 votes

Are zed qs really that hard to dodge lol?

The Lexer12 votes

Oh yeah, 'cause if they were easy to dodge then it would be ok to leave the inconsistencies of electrocute in the game.

As other people have said, Zed's Q hitting twice should not count as two hits for electrocute. Ahri Q/W doesn't. Talon W doesn't. Heimer's sepeaate turrets don't. Ekko Q doesn't. ANY ability that can hit more than once will only count as one hit for electrocute. Except for Zed

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