Boards›Report a Bug

If you're gonna buff Ahri's Charm, you should fix her Hitbox first! (Pictures and Videos inside!)

50CaliberHecate··57 votes·4,914 views

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/80/Ahri_Lore_13.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165950

On the PBE, there have been significant changes to Ahri to help get her in a steadier and happier place. I truly love this champion, so this is my feedback toward her help her. You can support it with an upvote if you'd like to do so.

Now in the past, I've made the comment about Ahri's charm having a messed up hitbox and another user (not Riot) has stated that this helps keep her balanced. But honestly, balance should not be derived from faulty mechanics of a hitbox. Balance should be settled through accurate statistics. That is why Riot is ALWAYS updating champions with nerfs, buffs, and fixes.

I have went through a few of her skins to prove my point, and have even drug Jinx along the way!

I want to discuss Jinx's ZAP first! I've heard users (not Riot) say that they have an easier time landing Jinx's W than they do with Ahri's charm. And its true. Look closely into this video. The end of the pointer for her Zap, off of quick cast, is barely even touching the enemy dummy, but it strikes it SEVERAL times both on and off the dummy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxDZVwuaAk&feature=youtu.be

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/22/Ahri_Lore_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165541

Now look at this for Base Ahri's charm!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2DVU4zWXho I did a video to demonstrate!

https://i.imgur.com/vPGXz4A.png

This image displays the pointer of the charm, to demonstrate where the actual hitbox of the enemy dummy is.

https://i.imgur.com/ART4EVT.png

This image displays her charm finally reaching the dummy, but no affect.

These 2 videos help display the hitbox of the dummy, the hitbox of the charm, and then the charm animation.

Both hitting and not hitting the dummy. Keep a close eye on the animation as well, as to not miss the isssue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT8RJXt-jvM&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIQeMC1s4o&feature=youtu.be

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/22/Ahri_Lore_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165541

Now for Ahri's Popstar skin...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thIOVJqVm8k

In this video, I use Ahri's charm DIRECTLY pointed at the dummy, and it takes 0 affect.

Then I thought... Okay, maybe the animation is shorter?

Well, then I recorded this video, I was just playing with my mouse for a moment moving it around, spamming her charm, and then BAM I hit the Dummy... same distance as the first video, but somehow.... I hit it? But this time, the normal cast arrow ISN'T even touching the dummy????!!!!

(I wasn't spamming it in the video itself, just before while I was playing around with her E.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX-2lhIdums

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/22/Ahri_Lore_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165541

So I went on... Arcade Ahri...

I didn't make a video for this one, cause the pictures are self explanatory.

https://i.imgur.com/CQJXbsq.png The arrows directly on top of the dummy... annddd

https://i.imgur.com/zMZEOqL.png

BOOM! NOTHING. The heart even GOES THROUGH the dummy, the actual LITERAL animation of the heart goes through the dummy, and it takes no affect.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/22/Ahri_Lore_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165541

SO now for my favorite Ahri skin, Star Guardian Ahri!

https://i.imgur.com/Sz7bxZO.png

Look how far away the pointer on this charm animation is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1qMb9pyLs

IN this video, I start off at the length. It HITS. But then I get closer.. and closer... and closer... and ON TOP OF THE DUMMY. And NO AFFECT.

This video allows for a better view without all the numbers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7A3VM79dRk https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/22/Ahri_Lore_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20151205165541

AND THUS, I PROVE MY POINT.

Her charm literally has a messed up hitbox.

Her SG one is horrid. It's almost like the hitbox is sitting a whole inch away from the actual animation. So to help us Ahri mains out, please lets get this upvoted and noticed!

[sg-ahri-2]

67 Comments

yeulx13 votes

yeah generally this shouldnt be an issue since riot normally has it to where the hitbox extends a little past the indicator like for instance ahris Q .. that E drop off is significant especially trying to land some max range charms it becomes a pain

50CaliberHecate4 votes

Right?! Ahri's charm even has a larger indicator for her spell then Jinx and yet it's still the harder one to land.

yeulx2 votes

tho this is just one of many reasons why i had stopped playing ahri ontop of her kit just falling away and being un satisfying since season 3 .. Hopefully they get things in order so i can return to playing her

50CaliberHecate3 votes

Like I understand how the angle of the camera can affect they way things align in game, but it shouldn't be so bad that I'm literally hitting an enemy by not even aiming right at them?? you know?

Her kit isn't to bad. I'm excited for her changes tho, have you read about some possible changes they are providing her?

Sona Ping5 votes

Jinx's Zap has its indicator slightly shorter than it's actual range. (Don't quote me on this, but if I recall correctly, the story was that it was deliberately made shorter.) It also has an animation that "hits" even when the ability itself does not.

Anyways, upvoted to figure this out and perhaps gain some clarity on why the charm hits further at an angle.

flibitydoo1 votes

yeah it looks more like the indicator is at fault rather than there being a hitbox issue

the pink warning line that shows up before firing her W clearly matches the actual projectile travel length. The issue is that the indicator for casting it seems to be shorter than what it actually is.

Wimbledofy1 votes

Well from the videos farther down it clearly is a hitbox issue, or a sync issue between where the mouse is and the actual direction of the charm. The charm should be going in a straight line but she missed while aiming on the dummy but somehow hit while aiming off the dummy. Ahri's charm shouldn't be behaving like diana's Q.

50CaliberHecate2 votes

{quoted}

Well from the videos farther down it clearly is a hitbox issue, or a sync issue between where the mouse is and the actual direction of the charm. The charm should be going in a straight line but she missed while aiming on the dummy but somehow hit while aiming off the dummy. Ahri's charm shouldn't be behaving like diana's Q.

To further this discussion, I want to note Star Guardian Ahri's charm in the last video. The way that the charm lands, the actual heart shape moves up slightly once it lands (sorta like yea, Diana's Q) which is something that clearly shouldn't be happening. the Heart shouldn't jump up to the Dummy, it should miss, while being directly ON the dummy should hit.

Summonah123692 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=EmpHmb4R,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-24T09:36:03.675+0000)

Jinx's Zap has its indicator slightly shorter than it's actual range. (Don't quote me on this, but if I recall correctly, the story was that it was deliberately made shorter.) It also has an animation that "hits" even when the ability itself does not.

Anyways, upvoted to figure this out and perhaps gain some clarity on why the charm hits further at an angle.

As a Jinx main yes, this is 100% true and I've always noticed it.

SoundChaosDebug5 votes

Not to derail your point, but you can record in game and then use that footage recorded.

2Charmnot2Charm8 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anbzhvS-hpg&feature=youtu.be Not as wonky as in the op but here is what i got.

50CaliberHecate2 votes

I didn't know how to do that and upload it T.T I'm not very tech savy... so I just recorded it on my cellular and uploaded those vids to youtube XD don't hate me

MuffledGarbage2 votes

there's also a program called OBS to easily record anything

ExcessiveProtest4 votes

Aaaaand there it is. The PBE changes finally fix Charm healing jungle camps, and immediately you find this. Before the jungle, enemies were walking whichever way they wanted while charmed, before that it was healing Stoneplate users to full health, then casting abilities while dashing if charmed, then infinite range autoattacks, and so on. Seriously, has Charm ever worked properly for more than a patch since it stopped interrupting dashes?

wildfox992 votes

has Charm ever worked properly for more than a patch since it stopped interrupting dashes?

not like before was less bugged ( R Malphite remember?)

i think her charm is the only thing that can compete with Mordekaiser

ExcessiveProtest2 votes

True, as well as Vi, Hecarim, and Jarvan's (Not sure on Jarvan, think that was fixed later), but after that it was fine for a while. In my completely unbiased opinion, they should revert Charm interrupting dashes, as the game's code clearly does not like that being removed, and the two new Charm Champs can't really abuse it too badly.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

You're missing a pretty important concept here (especially in the last video): skillshots connect if any part of them hit any part of the hitbox.

Essentially, for the max range for your skillshot, you're actually looking at a right-angled triangle. The distance of the skillshot forms the longer of the two sides connected to the right angle, the width of the skillshot the shorter, and then you calculate the hypotenuse for the maximum range.

What you're seeing here is that if aimed correctly, you can get more range out of Ahri's charm because the charm is sufficiently wide that by aiming off-target, you increase the length of the hypotenuse and therefore make contact with your enemy. When aiming directly at the enemy, you only get the range of the spell (and no benefit from the hitbox) and thus don't hit them.

Now of course, the animation going a little farther than it should is a bit of a problem. Although part of the issue here is that the target dummies have smaller hitboxes than most champions, and in general Riot would rather players know they got hit by an ability, rather than think they dodged it but be affected by it. If the animation stopped earlier, you'd have all these videos from players getting hit by a charm that didn't physically attach to their champion and complaining about it (see all the complaints about Blitz hook, which went for the opposite approach).

Here's a simple example of the triangle stuff:

Range between Ahri and Opponent's hitbox = 976 Range of Ahri's charm = 975 Width of Ahri's charm = 100 (I don't know for sure honestly, just making this up), meaning width from midpoint is 50.

Range if aimed directly = 975, which comes 1 unit short of making contact. Range if aimed at perfect angle = sqrt(975^2 + 50^2) = 976.3 which means it makes contact.

It's a very minor difference, which means it wouldn't be likely to cause any problems in an actual game. In a confined test environment like you're showing though? Yes, it could definitely make a difference.

(and Ahri's charm is a particularly bad offender because it has a very wide hitbox, which makes it a lot harder for her to hit her intended target as minions can get in the way. Finessing a charm between other targets is something that really identifies good Ahri players).

Kats Pajamas1 votes

{quoted}

You're missing a pretty important concept here (especially in the last video): skillshots connect if any part of them hit any part of the hitbox.

Essentially, for the max range for your skillshot, you're actually looking at a right-angled triangle. The distance of the skillshot forms the longer of the two sides connected to the right angle, the width of the skillshot the shorter, and then you calculate the hypotenuse for the maximum range.

What you're seeing here is that if aimed correctly, you can get more range out of Ahri's charm because the charm is sufficiently wide that by aiming off-target, you increase the length of the hypotenuse and therefore make contact with your enemy. When aiming directly at the enemy, you only get the range of the spell (and no benefit from the hitbox) and thus don't hit them.

Now of course, the animation going a little farther than it should is a bit of a problem. Although part of the issue here is that the target dummies have smaller hitboxes than most champions, and in general Riot would rather players know they got hit by an ability, rather than think they dodged it but be affected by it. If the animation stopped earlier, you'd have all these videos from players getting hit by a charm that didn't physically attach to their champion and complaining about it (see all the complaints about Blitz hook, which went for the opposite approach).

Here's a simple example of the triangle stuff:

Range between Ahri and Opponent's hitbox = 976 Range of Ahri's charm = 975 Width of Ahri's charm = 100 (I don't know for sure honestly, just making this up), meaning width from midpoint is 50.

Range if aimed directly = 975, which comes 1 unit short of making contact. Range if aimed at perfect angle = sqrt(975^2 + 50^2) = 976.3 which means it makes contact.

It's a very minor difference, which means it wouldn't be likely to cause any problems in an actual game. In a confined test environment like you're showing though? Yes, it could definitely make a difference.

(and Ahri's charm is a particularly bad offender because it has a very wide hitbox, which makes it a lot harder for her to hit her intended target as minions can get in the way. Finessing a charm between other targets is something that really identifies good Ahri players).

Basically what this guy said.

The directly straight shot has less range, so it didn't connect because it does not go the same distance at that slight angle.

In other words nothing is wrong with the hittbox, you just shot the charm at something farther away than it's max range, sort of proving nothing.

Hitbox aside, the video doesn't really prove a hitbox issue specifically because you're not shooting the skillshot far enough for the hitbox to hypothetically connect. At best this is an indicator issue.

50CaliberHecate1 votes

{quoted}

Basically what this guy said.

The directly straight shot has less range, so it didn't connect because it does not go the same distance at that slight angle.

In other words nothing is wrong with the hittbox, you just shot the charm at something farther away than it's max range, sort of proving nothing.

Hitbox aside, the video doesn't really prove a hitbox issue specifically because you're not shooting the skillshot far enough for the hitbox to hypothetically connect. At best this is an indicator issue.

Maybe?

Under the terms of my 2 videos under the "Base Ahri" section of the post, where I actually display the hitbox indicator of the dummy, and the hitbox indicator of her charm, that might make things confusing. Cause both indicators are touching, but there is still no affect. But I would say something isn't necessarily right still with the animation and hitbox tho. See I plotted the same both spots of Ahri and the dummy for all the skins displayed in my post, as I moved her indicator further away at different degrees like you see in SG Ahri's videos, not all the skins actually connected with the dummy. I couldn't get Arcade Ahri to connect at any other angle for some reason. There is deff an issue with something here that I hope Riot can adjust.

notice me Sin pi3 votes

wtf... no wonder I had so much trouble landing ahri charm the entire time

PB4UAME1 votes

Shoot it a tad to either side, and you effectively increase the vertical length of the hitbox.

Similar effect to Thresh/Naut/Blitz hooks 'snapping' to target, the extra width of the hitbox, if sent at the right angle, provides increased vertical range.

You can effectively hit targets almost 1000 units away, but if you shoot your E straight at them, it will only travel 975 forward, then about 50-75 units to either side. If you angle it, such that the 50-75 unit radius to either side is diagonally angled towards your target, you can hit people who likely thought they dodged the skill, and can even shoot it slightly around minions or champions who might body-block a more direct line of sight.

notice me Sin pi2 votes

https://imgur.com/YI2RtjX how do i get it to be displayed normal size

so like this? i never thought of it before, but issue for me tbh is not being able to land charm even after ulting into point blank range cuz im a boosted ape

SayoriIsBigSad3 votes

Jinx's Zap is on her w?

Wimbledofy1 votes

yes

50CaliberHecate2 votes

{quoted}

yes

He noticed my error cause I said "Jinx's E" earlier when I posted it, but It's fixed now

AquariusGine2 votes

I actually hit more Jinx's E than Ahri's charm, RIOT PLEASE FIX THIS HITBOX

Danni Chimes2 votes

Amen to that brother! I've been an Ahri main for quite some time and i have noticed her charm is wildly inconsistent. Thank you for this research and may Riot bless us with another 4 Ahri skins this year. ;)

[sg-ahri-2]

50CaliberHecate3 votes

May she be blessed. Still need Blood Moon Ahri, Project Ahri, Pool Party Ahri, and Winter Wonder Ahri to get her the true skin attention she deserves :p

Danni Chimes1 votes

Yaaaass! Please Riot!

PWEASE!!

Dysnomia2 votes

I will hijack your thread to show another hitbox "working as intended" issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIyaO1eU8c

2Charmnot2Charm2 votes

That is so rage inducing.

50CaliberHecate2 votes

{quoted}

I will hijack your thread to show another hitbox "working as intended" issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIyaO1eU8c

Lol wow... that's so tilting xD that was so a kill your deserved, that hit was spot on.

Dysnomia1 votes

Tip of the day : BE UNTILTABLE Right.

WardBaronFFS1 votes

No, Riot gave to much attention to ahri already be happy

wildfox991 votes

she didn't get a single change in almost 3 years and half...how is that giving her too much attention?

ampheon1 votes

He's referring to the skins, not the gameplay

wildfox991 votes

you mean when she got 2 skins after she didn't get one in 3 years?

even though it isn't a little,it's neither too much,like the average i'd say

i know there are champions that got ignored because of a small player base and because it was hard making a skin concept for them (AurelionSol ),but there are also champions that got more (and better as "rarity") skins so i don't really get why people always complain about her...

srsly,it's really annoying not to being able to talk about her in ANY context (even though it shouldn't happen even when talking about skins) because someone will bitch about it

ampheon1 votes

Yeah, the fact that you're annoyed understandable. Personally, I couldn't care less about how many skins a champion has, besides, even if Ahri didn't have almost a lot of skins I'm sure someone would've found something

wildfox991 votes

even if Ahri didn't have almost of skins I'm sure someone would've found something

so damn true :/

50CaliberHecate2 votes

{quoted}

so damn true :/

If It isn't Ahri, it's Lux, if it isn't Annie, it's Yi... ect. People just find ways to complain just to get what they want but STILL don't get what they want. Honestly, not gonna lie, I'm rooting for all 4 of them to get new skins soon just to piss people off more. If I was on the design team, I would SOOO done an April fools skin set with them all. LOL Instead of Definitely Not Ahri, I'd call it "You Bet It's Ahri" or something along those lines xD

Lol or all the people constantly bitching about Aurelion not getting a skin.. do an April fools skin of him dressed like Ahri [slayer-jinx-wink]

wildfox991 votes

do an April fools skin of him dressed like Ahri

or an ahri skin of her dressed like aurelion called "definitely not an ahri's skin"

i'd do that just for looking at the boards reaction MHUAHAHAHAHA [sg-jinx]

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I've always noticed the SG Ahri hitbox to feel wonky in comparison to Arcades

It just feels easier to hit

urgaypwned1 votes

Riot: please don't tie hitboxes to skins. these types of bugs don't need to come up and realistically shouldn't.

50CaliberHecate1 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface]

50CaliberHecate1 votes

BUMP

dont trust girls1 votes

My god dude, don't bump your dumb post from two years ago.

50CaliberHecate1 votes

[{quoted}](name=dont trust girls,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=EmpHmb4R,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-11-26T13:50:49.953+0000)

My god dude, don't bump your dumb post from two years ago.

K, I’ll just make a new one. Lol. The problem is still in existence and yet to be resolved and Ahri is one of the few champs I choose to always come back to and never get burned out on.

More from Report a Bug

Can't hover over friends
Report a Bug236 comments
663
votes
Infinite Loop Client Restart
Report a Bug886 comments
626
votes
patch 5.18 unexpected platform error
Report a Bug425 comments
445
votes
Origin of Master Yi Alpha Bug
Report a Bug176 comments
330
votes
Elise Can Only Rappel to Wolves on Blue Side
Report a Bug47 comments
277
votes
Loading bug
Report a Bug426 comments
274
votes

More by 50CaliberHecate

Can Zed's second shuriken not proc Electrocute please?
Gameplay182 comments
110
votes
Disable New Champions for a period of time in ranked.
Gameplay62 comments
90
votes
They gave LB a skin, I'm giving her the permaban.
Gameplay65 comments
66
votes
Infernal Akali should be changed to Shadowfire Akali
Story, Art, & Sound19 comments
32
votes
Kayn drains your life? That's bs!
Gameplay25 comments
30
votes
Map Changes should Create Ward Changes
Gameplay13 comments
29
votes