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i had a bad game... but it proves a point, armor is worthless

SwiftKitten88··3 votes·1,324 views

so my last game we saw a AD heavy comp and a lux that started item 3301 over item 3303

so we knew she wasnt going ap heavy

so i build armor as support Morgana i go

item 3157 item 3143 item 3047

now idk why... but for some reason i thought this would help me surive

i do end up dying quite a lot

about 4 of them becuase i fucked up and about 8 of them were be dying ( and suceeding) to keep another teammate (usally my adc alive) i had a VERY bad game

and i started with me completly forgetting i wasnt lvl 3 and trying to E a Lux snare [zombie-brand-facepalm]

( i played like a bronze that game and i admit it, i made stupid mistakes and there is no defense for that) but what id did do correctly was i did itemize correctly, i the vast majority of my deaths won us a fight or kept a person who was more important than me alive.

so whats my point here

well my build is.. i built item 3047 item 3157 and item 3143

i had 188 armor and it didn't do JACK SHIT NOTHING

i was in the process of finishing my item 3092 and getting item 3151 for more HP

but the point is.

i build correctly i got armor items.. i got HP items i delayed damage to do so i.

and yet i still died to a near full AD comp in less than half a second.

in 2 abilities.

so WHAT IS THE POINT OF BUILDING ARMOR?

WHY would i ever want to lower by damage and build armor he it DOESN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING

i mean if i had 188 MR no magic damage champ in the game could kill me with even a full rotation

and yet with armor it literally makes ZERO DIFFERENCE in how fast i die

there were times where i DIDNT EVEN PRESS ZHOYAS becuase i died so fast.. and i was think, i would wait until i got low enough but i was bursted down so fast i was dead befor ei coudl react

and this wasnt in a teamfight... this was a 1v2 or a 2v2

armor is worthless

match can be found here https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2872202562/207008136?tab=overview

26 Comments

ZephyrDrake3 votes

first, armor isn't going to make you immune to damage. Second, while you are getting "tankier" the enemy is also getting more damage and at a much faster rate than you since you are feeding them gold by dying so much. Third, damage is designed to outscale defenses so you giving the enemy gold like crazy isn't making it any easier for you to not die. Fourth! why are you using an example of the enemy being fed as your proof of "armor is worthless"? you can get ahead and armor will make you pretty much immortal until late into the game where damage starts outscaling your defenses. Why don't you use a relatively even game as your proof? why do you have to use a game where you are already at a disadvantage?

Malak2 votes

{quoted}

first, armor isn't going to make you immune to damage. Second, while you are getting "tankier" the enemy is also getting more damage and at a much faster rate than you since you are feeding them gold by dying so much. Third, damage is designed to outscale defenses so you giving the enemy gold like crazy isn't making it any easier for you to not die. Fourth! why are you using an example of the enemy being fed as your proof of "armor is worthless"? you can get ahead and armor will make you pretty much immortal until late into the game where damage starts outscaling your defenses. Why don't you use a relatively even game as your proof? why do you have to use a game where you are already at a disadvantage?

thats the fucking problem we have here. Two evenly match players base, one buys defensively and one buys pure damage, pure damage guy wins - leads to a shitfest where everyone one shots everyone else

SwiftKitten883 votes

{quoted}

thats the fucking problem we have here. Two evenly match players base, one buys defensively and one buys pure damage, pure damage guy wins - leads to a shitfest where everyone one shots everyone else

^this

i dont think "pure defense" should beat "pure damage" thats absurd

but if they buiild pure damage.. and i itemize against thier their full damage build.

i should at least die SLOWER than i did before

and yes i died a LOT but i ALSO DID MY JOB as support

which was to #1 KEEP MY ADC ALIVE.

and unless u look and study very closely the time of the deaths

MOST of my deaths won is the fight or made sure we went even and didn't lose the fight outright.. becuase died to save my ADC, wether it be facing tanking lucain ulti for her, tanking tower shots, sacing myself by running back into the enemy so she could escape, or just using an ulti that would be certain death but for me after item 3157 expired but would also win us that teamfight so we coudl take objectives.

dying is bad yes.. and i died a LOT

but a LOT of my deaths (over 8 of them) were deaths that won us the game becuase if i didn't die, our carry would have.. and then we could have instantly lost.

the ideal situation is to NOT DIE. obviously. and i only even HAD to take that option to "die in their place" becuase i played bad

but if had chosen to let my ADC die instead of dying for them.. we probaly would have lost.

i messed up early on. and i know that. but i did the right thing. and i build the correct way for the situtation. and i did my job which was to keep my ADC alive during the fights.. if if that means i have to die to do that.. then i die to do that. becuase im not going to be the one takeing down towers or killing people... my adc is.

and yeah if i didnt completly fuck up early i wouldnt have had to keep sacing myself to do that. we could have ALL lived. but i did fuck up early on so i made the most of the situation and i went tank and kept my team alive to win the fights.

Edge of Daybreak1 votes

Why is that a problem? Would it be fair if the guy who built defense won? If the guy who is building tanky which is far less risky than being squishy won then no one would have incentive to go damage unless your numbers were just insanely high.

Malak1 votes

{quoted}

Why is that a problem? Would it be fair if the guy who built defense won? If the guy who is building tanky which is far less risky than being squishy won then no one would have incentive to go damage unless your numbers were just insanely high.

Building tanky is less risky but you're also significantly less useful in teamfights. Simply because you are not a threat and can be ignored while your team gets focused.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Building tanky is less risky but you're also significantly less useful in teamfights. Simply because you are not a threat and can be ignored while your team gets focused.

We'll they certainly weren't ignore me XD, as my 13 deaths can attest [sg-kiko]

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Building tanky is less risky but you're also significantly less useful in teamfights. Simply because you are not a threat and can be ignored while your team gets focused.

"less useful in teamfights" sorry but what? so you are telling me that a Bruiser Shyvana is more useful in teamfights than a full tankMaokai ? or any tank for that matter? if you are for instance Annie and are building nothing but tank items then yes your usefulness in teamfights is severely hampered but any tank? they are going to be more useful than most champions in teamfights

Malak1 votes

{quoted}

"less useful in teamfights" sorry but what? so you are telling me that a Bruiser Shyvana is more useful in teamfights than a full tankMaokai ? or any tank for that matter? if you are for instance Annie and are building nothing but tank items then yes your usefulness in teamfights is severely hampered but any tank? they are going to be more useful than most champions in teamfights

build your adc or mage full tank and let me know how it goes

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

build your adc or mage full tank and let me know how it goes

so what you are telling me is "build no damage on champions that are meant to built damage and see for myself"... did you even read what I said? or did you just stop after the first sentence? A TANK building like a tank is way more useful than a TANK building like a damage dealer in teamfights (and most other champions for that matter). A damage dealer (like Annie ) will have it's usefulness hampered if they build nothing but tank stats since that is how they are balanced.

Damage is meant to outscale defense, if it didn't everyone would just pick tanks and bruisers and other champions that don't need to build just damage in order to be useful since why bother? you are just going to destroy the squishy damage dealers since your defensive stats will just laugh in the face of the offensive stats of the opposition. Not only that, you also would be able to do more risky plays at every single stage of the game vs squishy targets that would just die instantly. Let me say this again, defense is never going to be on par with offense in the later stages of the game, damage is going to outscale defenses eventually otherwise all we would get is just wet noodle fights all the time with nobody ever dying

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

thats the fucking problem we have here. Two evenly match players base, one buys defensively and one buys pure damage, pure damage guy wins - leads to a shitfest where everyone one shots everyone else

I see no "evenly" matched players here. OP himself said that he died 12 times! 4 due to his own fault and 8 somehow due to "armor being worthless" which is the same as "the enemy was ahead in items and lvls more than likely as well as CS but I am not going to say that"

Sorry but two evenly matched players base and even if one buys pure damage and the other buys pure defense it won't lead to the guy who buys pure damage winning. You at that point have to look at who is buying the items, what are the items being bought and how impactful those items are for that point in the game and how many items each champion has. A hyperscaling champion getting damage items isn't going to suddenly destroy every tank in existence with a single item, not even with just two. Someone like Renekton can do more against tanks with those items but will get outscaled by tanks late game unless he builds nothing but damage which will just lead him to blow up in later teamfights

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

thats the fucking problem we have here. Two evenly match players base, one buys defensively and one buys pure damage, pure damage guy wins - leads to a shitfest where everyone one shots everyone else

Then go play another genre of games, because there is not a single MOBA where offense doesn't generally outscale defense.

Malak1 votes

{quoted}

Then go play another genre of games, because there is not a single MOBA where offense doesn't generally outscale defense.

Actually it used to be that defense items were good to buy when behind because it made you better at 1v1, while more damage makes you more useful in skirmishes and teamfights

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Actually it used to be that defense items were good to buy when behind because it made you better at 1v1

No it didn't, you're wrong, barring certain skewed match-ups like Malphite into Tryndamere.

Malak1 votes

{quoted}

No it didn't, you're wrong, barring certain skewed match-ups like Malphite into Tryndamere.

Alright, mr. right, then why do you think Abyssal Mask's passive got nerfed? Why Banshee's Veil doesn't build off negatron cloak?

Mages would buy an early negatron cloak to be significantly stronger 1v1 versus another mage. This is because MR is actually good unlike armor. This is pretty recent news actually.

and armor hasn't been useful for a while but it used to work the same way a long time ago

ankoanko192 votes

Yeah no this is a bad example. This would've happened if you played in S5, S3, S4,S1 whatever. I agree, armor doesnt feel very impactful if you dont have lots of it Rammus but this example isnt a good example.

Xion The XIV4 votes

Even Rammus doesn't help. I played as rammus against a Heavy AD team had just below 800 armor with my W up. I still died before my W went on CD. With so many champions now getting true damage or % health damage hits, armor is almost worthless.

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Yeah no this is a bad example. This would've happened if you played in S5, S3, S4,S1 whatever. I agree, armor doesnt feel very impactful if you dont have lots of it Rammus but this example isnt a good example.

i DID play in season 3,4, and 5.

and no... it DIDN'T happen

every single item in my ENTIRE build (outside of item 3311 which i was in the process up upgrading) had HP and/or Armor.

Morgana is inherently one of the more tanky AP support, becuase of the fact that she is required to get in very close proximity to multi enemy targets for her ulti

and if she cannot surive for at least .51 second she cant ulti ((her ulti takes 3 second to go off and item 3157 only lasts 2.5, so u still have .5 second where she can be killed even if u cant just get out of her ulti range while she is immobile in zhoyas.

also becuase i can..

"riot: we are increasing her spellshield cost from 50-80 becuase and she maxes it early"

... yeah riot... no we don't max it early. sorry to disappoint you... but that is COMPLETELY BULLSHIT spelshield scales with AP and the only thing maxing it does is make it stronger. so if i build ap and max my W 2nd it still strong enough until i reach lvl 14, unles i am ver an cc or ap heavy comp

hell i would build item 3143 item 3157 item 3047 on top lane NIDALEE in season 4 pre 4.17 with my AD bruiser build.

don't try to tell me it didn't work.

i was there

ankoanko191 votes

Yeah nice rose tinted glasses ya got there. I remember Talon, Yasuo oneshotting far easier than theyre doing today.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Yeah nice rose tinted glasses ya got there. I remember Talon, Yasuo oneshotting far easier than theyre doing today.

yeah well... i DID says seasons 3,4 and 5... i choose to leave out 6,7 and 8, because yeah.. like you said..

and i can tell u armor in season 3-5.. DID IT'S JOB. it start to NOT do its job when riot "reworked" assassins.

and by "reworked" i means took a copy of the balance rules. had them plated in glass, spent 5 hours smashing it to bits with hammers and them threw the the remaining pieces in a wood chipper.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

yeah well... i DID says seasons 3,4 and 5... i choose to leave out 6,7 and 8, because yeah.. like you said..

and i can tell u armor in season 3-5.. DID IT'S JOB. it start to NOT do its job when riot "reworked" assassins.

and by "reworked" i means took a copy of the balance rules. had them plated in glass, spent 5 hours smashing it to bits with hammers and them threw the the reaming pieces in a wood chipper.

No, it started with the item reworks when everything lost stats and were given other stats. Especially out of those being GA and Banshee's Veil. Banshee's Veil is a terrible item now. I miss when everyone built at least one defensive item. There was a time where straight damage wasn't built, and now that it is we have a damage problem. Who would have guessed?

Crispy0Snake1 votes

Those items take a long time to buy. I think your problem is that you got armour, but you got less armour than they got damage in the same time period.

JoeAnarchy1 votes

lol everyone on your enemy team was building lethality, armor pen, and true damage.. and you were morgana, who IS NOT A TANK you should have focused the typical AP+HP builds.. supp item, ardent, redemption, maybe liandrys, etc. your build wasn't optimal, and was too easy to play around. which is why you died so much. but because your opponents were so focused on armor shredding you and darius, they didn't counter your Jinx at all, and she hard carried.. so it was actually a decent bluff.. they also built almost no resistance, because they were so busy focusing armor shred, so your carries were able to destroy them.. had THEY built armor and MR, that match would have gone differently.

Aurelion Söl1 votes

Those items while they offer armor dont offer too much health. You can be tanky stat wise but if you have no health to spread your armor over their is no point in building tank.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

so my last game we saw a AD heavy comp and a lux that started item 3301 over item 3303

so we knew she wasnt going ap heavy

so i build armor as support Morgana i go

item 3157 item 3143 item 3047

now idk why... but for some reason i thought this would help me surive

i do end up dying quite a lot

about 4 of them becuase i fucked up and about 8 of them were be dying ( and suceeding) to keep another teammate (usally my adc alive) i had a VERY bad game

and i started with me completly forgetting i wasnt lvl 3 and trying to E a Lux snare [zombie-brand-facepalm]

( i played like a bronze that game and i admit it, i made stupid mistakes and there is no defense for that) but what id did do correctly was i did itemize correctly, i the vast majority of my deaths won us a fight or kept a person who was more important than me alive.

so whats my point here

well my build is.. i built item 3047 item 3157 and item 3143

i had 188 armor and it didn't do JACK SHIT NOTHING

i was in the process of finishing my item 3092 and getting item 3151 for more HP

but the point is.

i build correctly i got armor items.. i got HP items i delayed damage to do so i.

and yet i still died to a near full AD comp in less than half a second.

in 2 abilities.

so WHAT IS THE POINT OF BUILDING ARMOR?

WHY would i ever want to lower by damage and build armor he it DOESN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING

i mean if i had 188 MR no magic damage champ in the game could kill me with even a full rotation

and yet with armor it literally makes ZERO DIFFERENCE in how fast i die

there were times where i DIDNT EVEN PRESS ZHOYAS becuase i died so fast.. and i was think, i would wait until i got low enough but i was bursted down so fast i was dead befor ei coudl react

and this wasnt in a teamfight... this was a 1v2 or a 2v2

armor is worthless

match can be found here https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2872202562/207008136?tab=overview

It's hard to be a primary tank on support income, especially when you are playing a champion that doesn't scale well with defense like Morgana.

Zed had over five thousand more gold than you had, due to his own superior play and the nature of his role compared to yours. And you think you should be able to easily blunt five items of damage items from him (two of which are specifically geared for tank-busting, what an oldschool Zed build that is) with three cheap armour items?

Get out of here. You'd have been far better-served just building AP or, get this, building items that at least help your ADC (who was doing well despite you) carry. Instead you bought selfish defense items in the hope that you could stop feeding. What a joke. Maybe get better at the game before you make these meandering posts on game balance.

Oh, and your comparison to MR? Magic damage is balanced around the fact that most champions naturally do not have and won't be purchasing as much. 188 MR? I barely ever get that shit on Dr. Mundo, much less pretty much anyone else.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

It's hard to be a primary tank on support income, especially when you are playing a champion that doesn't scale well with defense like Morgana.

Zed had over five thousand more gold than you had, due to his own superior play and the nature of his role compared to yours. And you think you should be able to easily blunt five items of damage items from him (two of which are specifically geared for tank-busting, what an oldschool Zed build that is) with three cheap armour items?

only at the VERY END of the game

Get out of here. You'd have been far better-served just building AP or, get this, building items that at least help your ADC (who was doing well despite you) carry. Instead you bought selfish defense items in the hope that you could stop feeding. What a joke. Maybe get better at the game before you make these meandering posts on game balance.

I'm allowed to have a bad game u know. the fact i i knew what i did wrong that game and i knew it was my fault. we have all done it... even faker makes stupid mistakes from time to time. (we all saw him flash into that wall)

i also made sure that we didn't end up losing due to my earlier mistakes

Oh, and your comparison to MR? Magic damage is balanced around the fact that most champions naturally do not have and won't be purchasing as much. 188 MR? I barely ever get that shit on Dr. Mundo, much less pretty much anyone else.

......... becuase you dont ever NEED more than one XD

Poro Lord1 votes

I think its more a problem of item 3143 and item 3047 not giving Morgana any stats she actually wants.

I personally wish there were more armor options for AP champions, but getting an item with zero AP zero CDR, no active...

All you are doing is making it so you can take one or two more punches to the face before you die.

Just about anything else would make you more useful in the meantime.

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