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Maybe the new Conquerer is too good?

BALDG1VEN BOOMER··13 votes·8,322 views

Looking at the top 10 champions according to OP.GG for top lane.

  1. Riven: 54.33% Win rate / 9.12 % Play rate
  2. Yorick: 54.20% Win rate / 8.47% Play rate
  3. Irelia: 52.14% Win rate / 11.15% Play rate
  4. Jax: 54.13% Win rate / 8.21% Play rate
  5. Kled: 54.35% Win rate / 3.64% Play rate
  6. Olaf: 52.71% Win rate / 3.10% Play rate

And then you have Rek’Sai boasting and extremely absurd 56.68% Win rate and 8.44% Play rate.

Not sure the last time I’ve witness more than 2-3 champions in a role having absurd win rates above 53% + let alone this is probably the first time I’ve seen this much champions benefiting from one keystone.

Maybe it’s time to take a look at Conquerer overall and rather not ask for individual champion nerfs. Not to mention Spear of Shojin was added a few patchs ago which wouldn’t be a bad idea to take a look at since it’s easimy abusable on champions like Riven, Jax, Yorick who want to be spamming their abilities at most.

28 Comments

Z3Sleeper6 votes

{quoted}

it’s easimy abusable on champions like Riven, Jax, Yorick who want to be spamming their abilities at most.

Slow tf down there champ Yorick sucks at proccing new Conqueror.

Ghouls and Maiden all count as one single proc per 5 seconds for Conqueror.

In total his combo (E -> (ghouls + Maiden) -> AA -> Q) is 4 stacks. He needs to put another auto in there to stack it fully and by that time his entire combo is on cooldown anyway.

Meanwhile Riven (3Q, W, AA's) is more than 5 stacks and doesn't even consume her whole burst combo to attain.

And Jax has his attack speed to work with along with his combo already granting 4 stacks as well (while denying enemy Conq stacks from autos).

All in all, the statistics are evidence to this. Conq change was net neutral for Yorick since the healing is really good with his summons. But it was nowhere near a buff like all the other users whose winrates jumped this patch.

Yorick's winrate hasn't budged since last patch. If anything, it's gone down slightly.

https://i.imgur.com/T8ZNnGm.png

5StackUltOneShot4 votes

I mean, its stupid. Some champions completely break due to the rune (ones youve mentioned) and others are hot garbage now (Darius, Trynda). Just give us fucking fervor of battle and slap on 15% armor pen.

Bears Dont Care4 votes

{quoted}

I mean, its stupid. Some champions completely break due to the rune (ones youve mentioned) and others are hot garbage now (Darius, Trynda). Just give us fucking fervor of battle and slap on 15% armor pen.

That is essentially what they did dude.

5StackUltOneShot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bRFxQhoM,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-23T19:29:16.624+0000)

That is essentially what they did dude.

Nah dude, true damage is at 10% , making it armor pen is better vs tanks but worse over all which is why you can raise it to 15%, AD can be raised in compensation of the healing. I think the healing is primarily whats breaking Riven. (Which is why many Rivens rush Deaths dance, healing cd and AD, conqueror provides both).

Ragnaveil1 votes

Uh, its not the healing. She's boasted this above 50% winrate for weeks, before Conq had healing. Spear + DD is what broke her.

Deliberate Inter2 votes

Bruisers are garbage in competitive play right now, conqueror or not. It isn't that the rune on said champions is OP just that enough players don't know how to counter, punish and cope with this yet. I still like laning against rivens for example because I know I Can beat someone 2 leagues better than me because riven is easy to punish then I win for sure...

SweedishGunner4 votes

What game are you watching? There's still multiple Aatrox, Urgot, Irelia, Sylas picks/bans in pro-play.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

He’s watching Hashinshin probably

AetherArising2 votes

Rek'Sai also got a major buff by removing consistent counterplay to her ulti. Now you must teleport over 1000 units, which i believe is roughly a camille hookshot or roughly the distance of Ezreal's Mystic Shot (q) You can no longer flash out of it, and surprisingly few champs can escape without not only an innate dash but also flashing

due to the surprisingly huge damage rek'sai does with ulti, this sucks balls to fight.

GrReaper961 votes

To be fair before this it was like 300+ range which was a bit too easy to dodge

AetherArising1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair before this it was like 300+ range which was a bit too easy to dodge

Fair, but now theres roughly only 2 ways in the game to can escape it, either be camille and land a full range double hookshot the millisecond she burrows to ult, or have a long-distance dash AND flash, which is a little apeshit tbh

Ragnaveil1 votes

Or just grab Zhonyas or Stopwatch...

AetherArising2 votes

{quoted}

Or just grab Zhonyas or Stopwatch...

Not everyone is an AP champion, and stopwatch is one-time-use only.

Ragnaveil2 votes

The only issue I have with Rek's ult being guaranteed is the amount of damage it deals. She legit went from shit to best assassin because her ult has a 200% AD ratio or something, cant remember. They should lower it to 150% or 125% as a tradeoff for the buff.

AetherArising1 votes

{quoted}

The only issue I have with Rek's ult being guaranteed is the amount of damage it deals. She legit went from shit to best assassin because her ult has a 200% AD ratio or something, cant remember. They should lower it to 150% or 125% as a tradeoff for the buff.

this is exactly what i'm saying - it's an immensely powerful targeted ultimate + untargetability and unstoppable, roughly the same as Kayn's ulti but with a 200% AD ratio, and (20 / 25 / 30%) of target's missing health based on level up. For reference, Kayn, the most comparable ulti (in both marking to use and in attack style) has a 175% AD ratio (With added 10% max health dmg if you go Rhaast form, which also scales an extra 13% per every 100 AD you have)

Because rek'sai's ultimate grants a similar utility in becoming untargetable, is MUCH higher range, has an extra 25% AD scaling, and from 20 to 30% of a target's missing health (making it very easy to kill champs who she engages on with the plethora of ways she possesses.)

I like the idea of rek'sai being playable and not garbage. She's an interesting champ and one that i'd like to learn how to counterplay But as it is right now, rek'sai has a nearly 55% winrate with 12.50% playrate on op.gg (which takes its stats from plat elo in korea, a fairly consistant and reliable source when it comes to gauging champ strength) That's not okay. She went from a niche aggressive jungle with a small playerbase to a disgustingly easy to rampage with, without any prior experience.

If you think i'm overreacting, you can look on op.gg and see that the playrate spiked enormously from around 1% to 2% playrate to an enormous 12.5% playrate, while maintaining a SEVERELY high winrate. Balanced champs stay around 50% wr. Unbalanced champs (good or bad) can go down/up about 2% to 3% at extreme cases, like Yasuo. 55% is a big flashing danger sign

It doesnt help either that rek can proc the new and very powerful Conqueror in roughly 1-1.5 seconds.

Ragnaveil1 votes

To be fair, many junglers picked up Rek when she was in her old form and prime, so her play rate going up means that she's finally viable to more people. She isn't a Riven case. Rek will be strong for a while, but im pretty sure Riot will target her spell damage at some point soon so she's not 100/0ing like she is right now. Conq's rework gave the champ the extra boost she needed, so all she needs now is adjustments.

5050BS1 votes

Or have a pocket Morgana Or play Nocturne or Akali (even if you ult her out of shroud it cant hit her in shroud it seems) or Sivir or etc

AetherArising2 votes

{quoted}

Or have a pocket Morgana Or play Nocturne or Akali (even if you ult her out of shroud it cant hit her in shroud it seems) or Sivir or etc

Morg? what the hell is she supposed to do to a physical damage attack? she doesn't make you dash fast or anything either, and she can't stop rek'sai with black shield.

Nocturne..? Well yeah he can block the ulti assuming the rek'sai completely and utterly fails at counterplaying nocturne and ults while he has his shield up, or he can ult away if he times it REALLY well.

Akali dash though yeah she can ult-flash (I think she might still get damaged in shroud but i'm not sure, since its unclear if Rek ult behaves that way. She could also possibly ult-E but i don't know the range of her E backflip as a dash, it seems tiny. She can't double-ult, as it has a 2.5s CD between casts. (Akali's ult is only 600 units for the first dash, and although it's 750 for the second cast you can see the above problem with the cast cooldown. for reference, you must now travel over 1000 units to avoid rek'sai ulti)

Sivir, doesn't matter at all. If rek'sai is ulting you, rek will kill you. The dash still goes through, and it's not like a rek'sai will lose all ability to attack or use abilities on a squishy ADC with no dashes.

Still feels horrible to waste ults AND flash like that instead of one or the other to avoid a huge chunk of execute damage, not to mention conqueror being a huge buff to her

Critmaster Garen1 votes
Conqueror

   ADAPTIVE FORCE 3-15 adaptive force per stack (max 15-75) ⇒ 2-10 adaptive force per stack (max 10-50)
   RANGED STACK DURATION 3 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds (melee stack duration still 8 seconds)"

theyre hotfixing it

SuicidePlank3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bRFxQhoM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-23T16:04:17.452+0000)

theyre hotfixing it

Wont do much, because the hotfix focuses on ADCs and Mages, not the OPs Point of some Bruisers being broken with it.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Losing 5-25 AD is pretty massive for a bunch of auto attacking champions especially considering AD scalings as well.

It'll hit Jax, Kled, Yorick and Irelia hard and give Riven a little tickle.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Wont do much, because the hotfix focuses on ADCs and Mages, not the OPs Point of some Bruisers being broken with it.

its blanket nerfing the ad by 30%. how does that only affect adc?

never mind, that adc and ranged champions are among the largest abusers of the keystone. meddler said in his gameplay thoughts, that conqueror is gaining a significant amount of traction on ranged champions.

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bRFxQhoM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-23T16:04:17.452+0000)

theyre hotfixing it

This basically only hits ranged champions.

Whomp3r1 votes

its way too good that amount of stats you get from a single keystone far surpasses any other and on top of that its a very versatile rune that can be used on just about anyone.

Saezio1 votes

Jeez. It's already being hotfixed, let's wait some time to see how it goes. Also, are those winrates for D+? Plat+? Or across all elo? Because if the latter is the case, they really don't say much

Sire Hippington1 votes

Not like half of them were at about the same stats befor new conqueror aswell... it's certainly not weak, and potentially broken on somw like riven who can stack it very quickly, but blameing all those stats on new conqueror alone is wrong.

5050BS1 votes

Its broken on a few champs and good on a bunch but not too good on those. Its the few its broken on that just needs flat nerfs and have needed them for a long time.

Wild Geese1 votes

This rune is disgustingly broken on a few melee(and ranged) champions who can do several abilities and autos in quick succession.

It's pretty useless on a lot of others, including several who were pretty good with old Conqouror.

Overall I have to say if I had to pick the more healthy rune between this one and the old one, I'd go with the old one by a mile. The new one is too heavily synergistic with the likes of Irelia, Riven, Renekton, Yorick(for some reason), Kled, Jax.. Conq vs Conq lanes turn into this insane fiesta where it's like whoever procs conq first wins, it's scary AF. The amount of damage and healing is berserk, it's like a full complete item worth of balls of stats and passives.

Really, this new rune makes me wanna throw up.

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