People screaming at Riot for "enforcing meta" are full of crap.

Roktan·Mar 1, 2017·151 votes·5,329 views

Because while you sit there and say that Riot is wrong for the debatable "enforcing of the meta", a lot of you wouldn't tolerate that when you actually play. You would be the one who started up a TeamBuilder and kick someone from the group because you didn't like their champ choice based on the role they selected. ** You** would be the ones reporting the Singed and the Nunu for what they did in the current role select draft. You would probably dodge if you saw a Draven top, Soraka jungle, or a Teemo bot. And you know it. Stop being a bunch of lying hypocrites. Players of this game enforce the meta more than Riot ever will, so shut up.

In other words, unless you're actually willing to take the off meta pick on your team, you probably should not be screaming at Riot for "enforcing the meta".

149 Comments

AhristocatsMar 2, 201751 votes

Imagine being in the team of this nunu support

someone instalock nunu support with smite, you would be like "wtf is this dude?" ** and i would be like this too**

however if the nunu says "i'm going to counterjungle a lot, roam, play safe bot and we will dominate on the map" i would suddenly think that the dude knows what he is doing at least, and that he is trying to win

just saying how i would react if he was with me @OP: i agree with you, behind this community saying that riot is unfair hides a community that can't stand the meta to be broken

chipndip1Mar 2, 20173 votes

Nah, I'd dodge that shit. A lot of other people just reported him. Remember, this decision is a reflection of community opinion more than anything else.

AhristocatsMar 2, 20173 votes

a lot of people also honored him

chipndip1Mar 2, 20171 votes

Apparently not enough if he got banned due to sheer report count.

AhristocatsMar 2, 20176 votes

honors don't cover reports, they don't matter in the system

GULAG 4 UMar 2, 20174 votes

The community is hypocritical? What a surprise!

AmazoXMar 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The community is hypocritical? What a surprise!

Lmao.

PaquayMar 2, 201726 votes

I think it comes down to a hindisght thing. If you win the game, you think the dude's a genius. If you lose, you think he's a moron and nobody should ever break meta. Haha

Chembaron YamadaMar 2, 201713 votes

That Nunu player was reported almost 50% of his games, including games his team won. It was not about winning or losing. It was about the fact that this Nunu player was giving alot of people a terrible game experience. For example if you are the adc and he leaves you alone against 2 enemies at bot the whole game.

I would have reported that too.

MorticianjohnMar 2, 20179 votes

Knowing his team lost almost 50% of his games I think it would be safe to assume that he was reported a whole lot more often in his losses than his wins. Probably 80% or more of the reports were from lost games where players are always looking to blame someone. He was the easy target.

HarrisonOwnsMar 2, 20173 votes

Just because X amount of crybaby morons reported, doesn't make it right.

Argumentum ad populum

SanKakUMar 2, 20173 votes

That's where the scapegoat mentality sinks in, and unfortunately, people will still report him for being that guy that handed their asses to them as their opponents, and if that isn't happening, there will be some bottom lane players or some jungle players that think Nunu sucks just pounding the crap out of that report button. They'll be like "if you played a different champ, we could've won!" reasoning when reporting but they won't click on their game history before doing that to confirm that Nunu is the only thing they play.

PaquayMar 2, 20172 votes

Well, to be fair, you can't check their game history and then choose to report them later. You get one chance to click that little red !.

And also, if I weaved you this story about how awesome I am with Garen support and how I'll counter jungle and you'll be on your own a bunch so pick a safe champ, and then you, I or the team get roflstomped I bet you'd report my trolling ass too, haha. I'd probably do the same thing. That doesn't change if it is effective or not.

In sports, if a team tries some kind of trick play and it works, everyone praises the coach/team in what a gutsy play it is. But if it fails, they are chastised for trying to be tricky and how dumb of a move it is. It's dumb, but that's how it is.

LordBrascaMar 2, 20172 votes

1000 times better that Nunu or anyways someone going offmeta and explaining this strategy than a random dude instalocking the top tier champ and going full tilt because he doesn't know how to win a game.

Problem just comes when the guy goes extremely off meta and doesn't care to tell at least what are his intentions in champ select or in game. Yeah in that case you risk to just have a troll in your team.

DolasaurMar 2, 20179 votes

Players of this game enforce the meta more than Riot ever will, so shut up.

Just wanted to point out that Riot added role preferences to matchmaking. That's a pretty significant architectural way to support the meta; a reminder you see every time you queue for the "most important" queue. (Riot wants people to play ranked for some reason, which was their whole thing behind Dynamic Queue ranked last year.)

That said, I do agree with the sentiment of your post.

RoktanMar 2, 20171 votes

Granted, but I think Riot just went with what the already overall agreed upon meta is currently when they introduced TeamBuilder and then role select, 1-1-2 plus jungler. Yes Riot is enforcing a meta by doing so, but one that was already the standard for a high percentage of most games. If anything, I would like to see the recent cases make them consider the option of allowing for more than one player per role so people who want to have some off-meta lane strategies, such as the old 2-1-2 something you could actually do. I think though that they would probably only limit it to 5 man team groups to save from the mass amounts of reports that would most likely happen because I can see arguments and toxicity happening otherwise. The only way to do it now is through blind pick and a lot of people hate that system.

Automated RivenMar 2, 20172 votes

going 2-1-2 gimps your team really really hard so pretty sure even if it was an allowable option people would never play it. I would never want another toplane player fighting me for cs or breaking my freeze or leaching my XP. you know what riven/darius/any toplaner does when they hit level six and your still level 4? hint it starts with "double" and ends with "kill".

Trash MammaIMar 2, 20178 votes

Idc what people do as long as they're TRYING to win. I've had double jungle games i've had duo top or mid games i've had bards roam and stay in each lane for a few mins before leaving just to support them all and win. Being a support means supporting your team with utility. Wards/peel/shields/heals/buffs etc. Being a support doesn't mean going bot lane and being bitched at by the adc 24/7

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 2, 20171 votes

Actualy... the nunu case isnt about nunu roaming... its about a nunu afk jungle not helping his adc from the start to the end.

Arsenic SulfurMar 2, 20173 votes

It is helping the ADC in the sense that Nunu's playstyle IS to make the enemy jungle as useless as you are, removing a potential threat. However the cost of one player is pretty steep.

Automated RivenMar 2, 20172 votes

I have never gotten reported (that I know of) for playing nunu smite support. (granted i havent done it in a while) but I focused on counter jungling two camps and still spent most of my time bot for dragon control.

Dextix LTMar 2, 20174 votes

And that is the correct way of executing that strategy, not leaving your adc alone for the entire game.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 2, 20177 votes

I'm guessing the same people would be the type to "support" a bunch of humanitarian causes, but shy away from actually contributing anything

It's just so they can feel morally superior

Around999PeopleMar 2, 20176 votes

My cuz got to gold in one season on Soraka jg. I got out of bronze on Vel supp. My friend was a nunu supp main last season. I encourage weird picks.

Without weird picks we'd never have had Ekko jg. Or Soraka top. Without weird picks we'd never have had Ziggs adc, or annie supp. I mean, this guy did something that WORKS. It gave him wins, it gave the team wins, it worked.

Yeah, a lot of people would report him. Hell, I got reported for not q'ing with Thresh on enemies that were always behind minions. Adc didn't care that it would be a waste of my mana. He reported me for trolling and feeding because of it. Should I be banned?

I QMar 2, 20178 votes

Ekko jungle wasn't a "weird pick", it was one of his intended roles, then it got gutted with Tank Ekko and the changes to Runic Echos.

Around999PeopleMar 2, 20175 votes

Wasn't it mid for him from the get-go?

I QMar 2, 20175 votes

Mid/Top/Jung where his roles that he came out wirth

The EcdysiastMar 2, 20174 votes

Exactly. People making threads to defend the smite supports are freaking ridiculous. They've never played with the people in question and definitely wouldn't tolerate it if they had to be in the losing matches with that player. ONLY the losing matches, because that's when they get reported. Nothing's off-meta when it wins. But we get these people who are meta slaves themselves defending guys like that because they love them. They love when someone else has them on their team so they get a free win.

SanKakUMar 2, 20172 votes

I'd take a support with smite any day over a jungle without smite.

The EcdysiastMar 2, 20171 votes

Support isn't a detriment to the entire team if they don't have Exhaust. It can be replaced with ignite or heal without causing too much harm. Even accidentally taking smite on an actual support isn't too big a deal, since you can use it to help with dragon. But what I was talking about was the smite support Singed and Nunu who don't actually have anything a support champion needs to be helpful in that role and then play as if they're a second jungler-- but a second jungler limited only to half of the enemy's camps.

Removing the summoner spell that allows you to contest game-changing objectives is an issue for the jungler. Only Nunu can really argue for not taking smite, but since it's been a gank meta instead of a farm meta for over two years picking Nunu at all is a detriment to the team. He's like having a pre-6-pre-rework Warwick the entire game.

SanKakUMar 2, 20171 votes

I agree. On some supports, Cleanse believe it or not is much better option than Exhaust. Of course, if you're playing mage instead of actual support, you probably will get flamed. I take Cleanse, Ghost on Veigar and even though I get flamed, it performs well for me. Not sure how viable Ghost is on him anymore, though.

But I don't agree about hating on someone just because they play some unpopular and clearly under-powered champion. Even if it is ranked. Don't people say that fun matters? And if he's winning on top of having fun, isn't that the point of the game? What happens when people pick Galio even though they KNOW he's going to be reworked soon? Shouldn't that be banned, too? Of course, I guess it won't be happening in ranked...but what if it did?

The EcdysiastMar 2, 20171 votes

You just have to be a little clairvoyant to use Ghost now. Gotta make sure you start it before you'll need it.

The point is the guy isn't winning. He has a 50/50 rate even though he's the number 1 Nunu player. And anyone copying him is guaranteed to be worse. He's just skirting by on the chance his team can carry him while he isn't actively trying to lose.

What I find funny though is his strategy. He's bringing smite and not playing like a support. Nunu's the worst support in the game no matter how you play him, but the best thing to do to help your ADC is focus the W and give them that massive AS boost in lane instead of going and counterjungling.

SanKakUMar 2, 20171 votes

I'm all for trying new things, but In my book, something isn't viable if it requires your teammate to be decent at the game. Nunu support does this. Your W is not very effective if your lane partner doesn't realize what it does and doesn't care. Most players don't even realize Nunu's W is on 2 allies including Nunu when someone's trying to play him as support. They are just tunnel visioning so hard on killing enemy minions that they don't even realize they've been buffed.

My point is that I really don't think this random guy is to blame for all this toxicity. If the dumb ADCs would actually let Nunu be a viable support then things would be hunky dory.

The EcdysiastMar 2, 20171 votes

It really doesn't matter that it's on Nunu. The only thing it does for him is lower the time until his passive is back up.

And you're basically saying support isn't a viable role since it requires your ADC help attack when you do.

As Nunu sup, you don't just sit around and randomly W. You do it when they're going in. Just like if you decide to W your ally as Lulu or shield them for the AD as Janna. Except that you yourself have no hard cc to engage with.

He's not playing Nunu like a support. He was suspended because he's playing Nunu "support" like that guy was playing Singed "support" with smite a few months ago. That is, pretending to be a half of a counter jungler instead of the support.

SanKakUMar 3, 20171 votes

With the right pages setup, many true supports can 1vs2 for extended periods of time. Karma, Kayle, Sona, and Lux are all good examples of this. Of course, when people pick those heroes, they don't actually support with them and instead just go full mage and fail.

It doesn't seem to me like Nunu is capable of doing that. But maybe I'm being too strict in my expectations of what a support should accomplish.

The EcdysiastMar 3, 20171 votes

No, you're not being too strict. Nunu's just extremely outdated. The last time he was any good at all was when Dragon buff was too strong.

DarkLordArbiturMar 2, 20171 votes

If he's D1, then he's not just skirting by. D1 is not an easy rank to obtain, seeing as getting past S4 is beyond the capabilities of half the players in the game. Beyond that, a support Nunu who is counterjungling the buff away from the enemy jungler is giving his own jungler a massive farm advantage. On top of that, if it's the blue buff, he gains extra AP and cdr, which means for the 2 minutes that he's running around the bot lane with blue buff, he's a poke heavy soft CC machine who doesn't die because he can eat minions, and his adc can't possibly miss cannons since Nunu pretty much one shots them with his Q and should have relic shield. Plus, it's not a 50/50. its 53% winrate. Champions have been nerfed to obscurity for having an overall winrate that high. He's winning more games than he's losing. His team likely has amazing neutral objective control with at least 1k true damage to drop on epic monsters as soon as they spawn, which only grows with time. I'd be willing to play with this nunu as a jungler.

The EcdysiastMar 2, 20171 votes

No, champions have not been nerfed into obscurity for having a winrate that high with a 1% pick rate. Can't just ignore the third important factor.

He's tied for the lowest melee range in the game at 125 and has nothing to increase his own defenses against poke. The argument supporting him via relic shield is moot since it's no better on him than it is on any other melee support.

Meanwhile, despite being a "poke heavy soft cc machine," his E is only as strong as a single auto attack from Draven, with matching range.

There isn't a single champion in the game who can't be made to sound strong by simply listing their abilities. "Every auto attack slows and applies a DoT. His Q can apply Relic's execute from a range of 625 and also applies that same DoT and slow. His W cleanses all crowd control and heals. His E is an AoE AD steroid that effects all allies nearby. And his ultimate is a global, large AoE slow that can deal up to 1000 damage without even building any AP." -- Old GP sounds like an amazing support when you ignore the weaknesses.

And for a player who was previously above D1, he is definitely just skirting by. And it's solely due to his pick. He's dug himself into a hole, too. He likely can't even do as he's been doing as any other champion in the game. Meanwhile, the champion he clings to can't possibly get him back to master.

The simple lesson here is that Nunu needs a rework. Hopefully they make it so he actually can be a support for everyone else who isn't the number 1 Nunu, and a support that can actually support instead of pretending to jungle.

DarkLordArbiturMar 3, 20171 votes

I was not directly referring to Nunu when i mentioned the 53% winrate. I was making a comparison between how often he wins games and what happens to fotm champions.

Nunu can be hard to play effectively, but telling a person who's good at a champion that their pick sucks because they're not playing the champions that YOU feel are strong is like telling a body builder that they should run a race.

Draven's autos don't slow enemies, and thus are harder to follow up on, and therefore Nunu can enable a follow up attack or two, or make an easy target for a Varus arrow.

His lane sustain is pretty gross. That's why he doesn't have much in the way of defense steroids, because he has a massive heal in his kit.

I agree, Nunu could use a rework, but that's because his kit is outdated, not necessarily because it's weak.

The EcdysiastMar 3, 20171 votes

Your metaphor is a little whack.

In this scenario, we're running a race. What I'm asking is that the bodybuilder do some stamina training instead of lifting. Rather than run the race after doing nothing but lifting. Sure, Nunu was good back when bodybuilding was the competition. But it's races now, and he's dead last.

DarkLordArbiturMar 4, 20171 votes

The point of my metaphor is to say there's more than one way to get a gold medal. If your way is how you do it, while another way is how another person does it, trying to make a person do it your way in order to secure a gold medal is only going to lose it for both of you.

The EcdysiastMar 4, 20171 votes

Still doesn't fit. My way and the way that's best for them aren't the same thing. And just because he only knows how to play Nunu doesn't mean it's the best thing for him. He's limited himself to being strictly at the mercy of Nunu's stats-- and forcing the entire team to pick around him regardless of what the composition needs.

Just because he has the positioning and general game knowledge required to stay in Diamond doesn't mean Nunu Smite Support works to get there. He'd be much better off switching to a good champion who both doesn't need a rework and isn't going to get a massive one soon. 'Cause he'll be forced to learn a new champion anyway when it happens.

If Phelps only ever did one event and was somehow terrible at every other swimming event, he'd be nothing special compared to the other athletes.

Dominick DestineMar 2, 20173 votes

An acquaintance of mine and heterosexual love partner 'Ariel the Cruel' plays Yorick support all the time.

He has never been reported and he does pretty well... it's not about "Enforcing the meta", it's about people wanting to get away with actual trolling. Riot did the right thing by suspending/banning trolls.

nice tableMar 2, 20172 votes

id be okay with having the smite nunu support on my team, usually when i see some weird shit in my games i check their profile on op.gg and if they have done it before and it works for them all the power to them.

DolasaurMar 2, 20173 votes

That sounds like you don't support it if they don't have a good history on op.gg. And if that's how the system worked, then it would be a chicken and egg problem. "I can't play off-meta because I don't have a history with it. I can't build a good history because my teammates won't let me play off-meta."

nice tableMar 2, 20176 votes

i mean you look at their history and see they are playing ap sivir jungle for the first time in a ranked game yes im not going to support that, if they have practiced it in normal games beforehand and done well i can get behind that.