New tank item: Warmonger's Shackle

Kowe The Ewok·Jan 7, 2015·27 votes·3,512 views

EDIT 1: Active Duration tweaked to make it more of a tank than bruiser item. EDIT 2: Added a clrification that the active does neither root, nor snares - but only disables dashes and blinks. EDIT 3: Armor reduced by 10, MR reduced by 5. (Cost efficiency significantly dropped. Should be more noticeable on Bruisers than tanks. Cost slightly reduced as compensation.)

1000g (380 Health) 750g (40 Armor) 850g (45 MR) +800g = 3400g E3:+750g = 3350g

Warmonger's Shackle

400 health 40 Armor 45 MR

Unique passive: Increases Bonus Health by 25%.

Unique active: Throws a shackle at target enemy (600 range). Target enemy can't use dashes or blinks for 0.25 seconds (+1s/ 100 MR, +1s / 100 Armor). The target's normal movement is unimpaired by this effect. You move 30% faster for the duration. (90s CD)

Numbers are open for tweaks

63 Comments

MakersFJan 7, 201510 votes

They won't do an item with gives MR +ARM + HP. They stated it when they reworked the locket. They only any combination of the 2. (actually only HP + def if you don't consider zzportal, since they think that HP is the counter to mixed dmg, but probably they realized that no one wants to build only HP due to all the %HP dmg in the game).

They also stated that they won't do any hard CC as active items. The active you propose is a silence for specific abilities. The point is that abilities which are dashes might do more. For example Graves gets AS, Jarvan Knocks up, Kata gets dmg reduction, Gragas stuns, LB deals dmg, etc etc etc. With that you are not only preventing them from moving, you are negating their combo/ability.

I don't need to share my opinion on the item since they simply will never implement it.

PS: but i agree tanks need a item to reward for going full tank. But I guess an item which makes ARM + MR synergize, since HP already synergizes with resists. Or something which deals dmg the more tank you are, like a sunfire scaling with max hp

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20152 votes

Well, considering how overpowered mobility on some champions has become I'ld rather say it would be an affront to the player to NOT get them any tools against it.

Have you seen fakers 1v4 quadra? He avoided more than 4 abilities with just a click on a button. Sure, this involves a lot of skill to do. But there is no counterplay against it if the roots which are supposed to stop it are mostly skillshots as well...

Grouchy PoroJan 7, 20151 votes

Agreed; it's hard to land it even if it's a targeted ability. I think what would be best is a short range but auto locking aoe, meaning as the tank/peeler you need to be in position but you can save your carry without worrying about misclicking all over the place to try catching that sneaky leblanc.

MakersFJan 7, 20156 votes

This is not an opinion of mine, that is what riot is saying. They will not make an item which provides hard cc. Silence is a hard cc. That's it (I'd like to link you to the source but it was a comment of a red several months ago).

You can keep theorycrafting, but they'll never do it.

Wrong or right doesn't mean a thing, since they are the ones who decide

LankPantsJan 8, 20152 votes

Hard CC — The following effects completely remove control of one's character:

Airborne Forced Action Stun Suppression Soft CC — The following only remove partial control of one's character:

Blind Entangle Polymorph Root Silence Slow

Hard CC — The following effects disrupt the channeling of abilities:

Airborne Forced Action Polymorph Silence Stun Suppression Soft CC — The following effects do not disrupt the channeling of abilities:

Blind Entangle Root Slow

This would fairly certainly be classified as a soft CC according to most classifications.

source http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_control

DecaedeusJan 8, 20151 votes

Snares also remove dashes and blinks, so it's just a root really.

LankPantsJan 8, 20151 votes

Jarvan Knocks up

It's worth noting that J4's E/Q would not be disabled in any way.

Potato DocJan 8, 20151 votes

Well to be honest, a long time ago in season 2 Riot made an announcement that they would never make a hypercarry since it produced horrible play, yet they came out with yasuo who was meant to be a hyper carry, they said they would never go from flat armor pen then % to % and then flat, but they did it anyways, they have said many things and gone back on it later on, In the way the current meta works its not entirely unreasonable to implement an item like this, and if the meta ever shifts to a point where its too op they can just remove it again.

LuckyRedenJan 7, 20155 votes

Its a cool item that embodies everything tanks need right now, but its not something Riot would ever implement.

AccountaBilabudyJan 7, 20154 votes

other than the additional seconds onto the snare I'm 100% good with that item. but a 3s snare would be OP.

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20152 votes

It doesn't snare, nor slow nor root. It simply disables a certain set of mobility abilities.

It's far more specific than randuin's active.

GunpointJan 7, 20153 votes

Ilikeitalot

LongFur FoxJan 7, 20152 votes

There are a couple of issues this item has to clear to not be a bruiser item. Remember that this is not meant to put anyone down or anything like it but concrete worries i have putting an item like this in the game. The most basic one is that normally bruisers gets more money due to having more damage which makes it easier to kill and farm especially since bruiser are better at split pushing and generally benefit more from gold. I mention this because that is one of a few reasons i think there are no high cost tank items. Second is that if you make a hp+armor+mr item then no matter what % scaling hp it has people are going to pick it up. Every pantheon or wukong who normally would only pick up a warmogs would much rather have this item even if it is slightly more expensive. Third and this is important: That passive is just as good for bruisers as tanks (if not more usefull for bruisers) since most adc's have a dash and removing that gives the bruiser en extra 3-4 seconds of hitting that adc. Actives, passives, and auras are what defines a tanks itemization (i buy FH everytime i play tank because it gives me everything i want in mana, cdr, armor, and a kickass aura) and while this might be meant to be used defensively it will be used for offense too.

I will make a thread of my thoughts on all the tank threads recently so i can explain what it is i want to happen instead of saying everyone does it wrong. That said i do agree with the % health increase and i think you are on the right track.

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20152 votes

While te mixed stats are nice on Bruisers it doesn't have the slow of Randuins. While disabling dashes is nice, slows can be more effective in many situations.

By itself the stats of the suggested item aren't too great - they only become efficient if paired with strong health items.

LongFur FoxJan 7, 20152 votes

Pantheon and wukong used to build warmogs in season 3 and this item gives 500 hp (it gives more if he has a black cleaver or other things that gives bonus hp) instead of 1k it gave and 50 armor and mr which overall means almost as much if not more tankiness than the warmogs would. In comparison to randuins then while randuins has a slow instead i would rather have a dash stopper and the extra mr not to mention that i would likely get both this and randuins on a few bruisers. Sure slows are nice but against ezreal, tristana, corgi and most other popular adc's i would much rather stop their surefire disengage and most bruiser already have a slow build in their kit.

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

On the other hand Randuins is more effective against Syndra Orianna Soraka Janna Jinx Twitch TwistedFate Braum Leona Morgana Rumble Sivir Sona Velkoz Xerath Than above item would be. (Well, there are more champions, but these see more play)

Sound slike a fair trade if you ask me - bruisers have to "react"to the enemy team - while tanks with armor sclaing on their abilities can build both items for the full benefit AND get a leveraged HP bonus.

(Btw. in the current meta bruisers build randuins 24/7, that can't be optimal either)

LongFur FoxJan 7, 20152 votes

I agree there are options where it would be better to build randuins. The thing that i am worried about for most tank discussions is that what they suggest would in many cases be better on bruiser and since bruiser arguably are more in meta atm giving items that are good on both but best on bruisers mean that either the item gets nerfed until it is in line with the strength it should have assuming a bruiser picks it up or all bruisers gets nerfed. Want to create an item that mostly benefits tanks? Give me a passive that gives me 40-50% cdr on item actives or doubles strength on auras. Some bruisers will pick it up but mostly it will be tanks and in some cases (maokai) this would be very fun to see.

PyroJan 7, 20152 votes

No way in hell it could get implemented. Too strong on bruisers. Or, frankly, anybody.

Current or upcoming 50 armor / 50 MR items (Guardian Angel / Zz'Rot Portal) cost 2800 gold and don't grant any health. It's not even about the price - the item is too slot efficient by its statistics.

NewspaperNarwhalJan 7, 20152 votes

the 1 sec per armor/MR is OP rammus/taric/j4 someone who can reach 300+ armor easily would have a morgana bind along with their other CC...i understand it doesn;t stop normal movement, but that would be a complete assassin counter

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

Did you read the description? It Does Not Root It does neither impair normal movement, nor movementspeed enhancing abilities. It solely disabled dashes and blinks for the duration.

NewspaperNarwhalJan 8, 20152 votes

DO YOU SEE MY LAST SENTENCE

"i** understand it doesn't stop normal movement**, but that would be a complete assassin counter"

LankPantsJan 8, 20152 votes

The main thing that's worth looking at is how weird it is to build an item and get near zero stats for the upgrade. You get 200 HP outside of the HP passive leaving you with a statistical weakness even after the item is finished. Also while an anti-mobility item, a HP/Armour/MR item, and a %HP item are fine in isolation it's not a good idea to put all 3 on a single item.

Leti the YetiJan 7, 20151 votes

wow, a tank item costing over 3k

it actually looks pretty darn strong

stares at my 300~500 armor well thats a good 6 seconds of dash free Akalis I think this just broke the game

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20152 votes

Any other "class" has it's core. Be it item 3078 item 3128 item 3089 or item 3031 (Those for support are a little bit cheaper). I think it's only fair for tanks to get one aswell.

Btw. how fast do you get that much armor? :O (Not to mention you have to pair for that aswell)

Leti the YetiJan 7, 20154 votes

not saying they shouldnt have that 1 important go-to tank item (though if you ask me, I just grab randuins every game)

juuuust there has always been the issue of tanks who needs some love vs bruisers... which are wolves in sheep clothing and everyones worried they might rise and fk up everybody again

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

That's why the above items has + 25% bonus health. Bonus health is a stat tanks usually have much of, while bruisers don't.

Purchasing this item on a tank who also build Warmogs will greatly increase the power of it. At the same time it barely leverages the health from the bruiser's Trinity - and eats up A LOT of money he could have build a GA and damage for instead.

Leti the YetiJan 7, 20151 votes

idk bout that, I often see alot bruisers have 3000~ hp ;l too lazy to take in every champ into consideration but this might solve alot issues with easily kitabe champions, might have to start thinking bout Garen or Nasus or watever

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

Consider that out of these 3000k about 2200 are BASE Health. Base Health does not get amplified, only BONUS Health.

Edit: 2200 base 250 Tri Force 3703 gold 500 Randuins 2850 gold 0 Mercs + Homeguard 1575 gold

2950 health / 8128 gold

That's an extremely expensive build. It's probably smarter for a buiser to build GA (2800g on PBE) and 1/3rd of his Last Whisper, instead of delaying it by purchasing Warmonger's Shackle.

GigglesOJan 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bJP96rtm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-07T14:27:02.030+0000)

That's why the above items has + 25% bonus health. Bonus health is a stat tanks usually have much of, while bruisers don't.

Purchasing this item on a tank who also build Warmogs will greatly increase the power of it. At the same time it barely leverages the health from the bruiser's Trinity - and eats up A LOT of money he could have build a GA and damage for instead.

I would actually much rather see a lower % bonus hp and some % bonus resists... I would rather have 600 armor and MR with 2k hp than I would 10k hp... with 50 armor and mr.... There are just too many % hp items and in the game, and HP and MR optimization is in a pretty poor spot right now...

Yets4240Jan 8, 20151 votes

Then you're a fool.

Look into EHP calculations. I won't go into the full formulas here, but basically to maximize EHP with 600 armor and magic resist, you'd need well over 10,000 hp, in fact, if your opponent has percentage pen. you'd need over 20,000 hp.

With 200 armor and magic resists, against a team with their percent pen. item, you'd need roughly 4,800 health to optimize EHP.

GigglesOJan 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then you're a fool.

Look into EHP calculations. I won't go into the full formulas here, but basically to maximize EHP with 600 armor and magic resist, you'd need well over 10,000 hp, in fact, if your opponent has percentage pen. you'd need over 20,000 hp.

With 200 armor and magic resists, against a team with their percent pen. item, you'd need roughly 4,800 health to optimize EHP.

I was exaggerating, because right now it is alot easier to get health than it is resistances... I didn't think anyone would take me seriously. To be honest I just want some better tank items, or a better ability to optimize against armor pen.

Honestly right now any build that would give you 600 armor would also leave you with 3k (minimum) hp (unlss you stacked thorn mails (ha ha). Also the most hp you can realistically get with 50 armor right now is something around 6k (5 warmogs)

More importantly I think there should b e a tank item that just gives something like 35% bonus armor 35% bonus MR and 35% bonus hp with no other stats... it would reward players for building other items that give the stats, and it would become more effective the more items you dedicated into those 3 stats.

On something like 4k hp, 200 armor and mr you would end up with 1k hp, and 70 armor and 70 MR

And to be honest the only way to get that type of bonus out of it is to invest very heavily into the three types of defense.

Captain AishiJan 7, 20151 votes

this item has better stats than runic bulwark had... and we know how much riot likes when defensive items are strong...

4nth0l0gyJan 7, 20151 votes

I am not wearing a shackle. I'm a tank, not your slave.

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

But you can throw your shackle's off! :O See how fast you move without them! And those hit by it are not used to it can't jump anymore :p

Aren't we all slaves to the carry though? xD

killd0zerJan 7, 20151 votes

That item is absolutely never going to be made

kile147Jan 7, 20151 votes

I feel like this is a good idea but a couple of things probably need to be tweaked. While I love the idea of countering mobility creep, adding a new type of CC specifically to do it probably isn't going to happen. I think a better active would be to make it a mini morgana ult. All nearby enemy champions are shackled and slowed, and if they don't get away from you they are silenced or rooted, not sure which would be better. The point being is that it would create a situation where the tank can force the enemy team to choose between a couple bad choices: they can either scatter and possibly burn their movement abilities, they can try to focus the tank, or they can ignore the tank and get silenced/rooted. However to make it so it's less attractive to bruisers one of the stats should probably be dropped, either the health, MR, or armor. Frankly I think dropping the health would be best that way the passive synergizes less with this item and forces you to build more health somewhere else in your kit, making it even less likely to be picked by bruisers.

WingsofGulgazorJan 8, 20151 votes

the fact that a morgana ult would be less powerful then this item active really says something...Morgana is literally a walking Q and ult and the fact that an item's active alone would give that... also while having a good unique passive and stats. This would counter more then just mobility creep it would benefit any comp that has cc since it would be impossible for any carry to dodge or teamfight against it and aoe comps are already obnoxius in that if the comp gets ahead at all even in LCS they can literally just walk down mid and end the game. Mayby if you could make the active about mellee range and even then would probably be really strong and would still be broken at least with the other things the item gives.

Like almost the only way to make an item like that viable with it's stats would be if it took away your own dashes and slowed your movespeed by 50 points while having it's active mellee range and even then it might be really strong in certain comps with tons of aoe and cc since you can still walk up to someone of importance to lay it off so it still might be broken when it can be used because that shit's op.

kile147Jan 15, 20151 votes

I don't see it as taking away from Morgana's ult. It's like how Ghostblade's active is basically a mini Yi ult. Morgana's ult is still more powerful than this because it does decent damage and completely stuns the target if it goes off.

Dingding123Jan 7, 20151 votes

I'd much rather see Health as a stat get reworked. Having more of it through levels is oppressive, and the only reason to have it with items is to be oppressive. In order to be a healthy stat, HP needs much more than one new item can give it.

SecretAgentHulkJan 7, 20151 votes

This would be the Lee Sin of tank items.

Kowe The EwokJan 7, 20151 votes

Or the Trinity Force of bruisers. Or the Infinity Edge of ADCs. Or the Deathcap of mages.

Ya see where I am going?

SecretAgentHulkJan 7, 20151 votes

Triforce: Every stat (crit, AS, AD, HP, movespeed, mana, AP, but no CDR) and Spellblade IE: AD/crit (no AS) and +50% crit dmg Deathcap: AP + amplification (DFG also has CDR) Shackle: All tank stats (HP, armor, MR) and a CC active

I'd love to see a HP/armor/MR item and/or one that gives %bonus health, but shackle pushes it into overloaded kit territory.

FantasySniperJan 8, 20151 votes

Isn't Warmog's already sort of that pseudo-Rabadon's and Infinity Edge?

Tons of health and health regen tends to make whatever resistances you have pretty amazing.

T8 SpeedwagonJan 8, 20151 votes

Warmanger's Shaco unique active: throws a shaco at target enemy Shaco

VesarixxJan 8, 20151 votes

This gives too much, the active aside 50 AR/MR + 400 health means there isn't really a reason to ever get any of the other defensive items before getting this one, because it gives everything. The passive is also problematic, when spirit of the anchient golem was around top laners were buying it just for the passive, because it was a major stat boost, and incredibly slot efficient for health stackers, it also made health scalings crazy. I suggested an alternative a while ago that gives the benefit of % health without effecting health scalings http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/p0bnA43G-all-hail-leviathan-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-botrk?show=nested

CindikleJan 8, 20151 votes

An item like this wouldn't make things better. There is a reason why an item with all 3 forms of defense does not exist.

IF it was to exist. It would be closer to 25 armor, 20 mr and 300hp with a special passive. It would have to be overall weak at defense. Considering you covering every source with one item.

Also the active would probably make it too strong on mobile champs who can easily get in and make it so the enemy cannot get out. You have to remember. Spells/Items that involve mobility are always strong on champions who are already mobile. Basically we'd see more Lee Sin diving in. Popping this and separating a squishy. Team can't use abilities to quickly get into the fight to save their ally. Lee isn't the best example. But it should give you an idea. That's not something Volibear could hope to do.

Meep ManJan 8, 20151 votes

The only thing I might tweak is the big old movement speed it gives, but this item is a done deal for any Tank, especially Peelers. This is great!

JacknifeJan 8, 20151 votes

Honestly I kinda like the item. The stats seem a bit much, on any bruiser or tank it'd be godlike, but I like the active. If anyone should have the tool to shut down an assassin or mage that's getting too far outta hand its the tank, and it should be something distributable, not chosen at champ select. Besides silences are fairly rare in this game (super rare recently) and the ones that are there are pretty telegraphed. I'd like something that can actually help keep a zed in place instead of a skillshot stun or a slow that won't really help.

Sightless66Jan 8, 20151 votes

It is unlikely there is going to be a tank item with Armor, MR and Health. It makes it very good as a generalist item, which isn't really how defensive itemization is supposed to work. High cost for high stats is a good idea though.

Target enemy can't use dashes or blinks for 0.25 seconds (+1s/ 100 MR, +1s / 100 Armor).

Duration is probably a bit too long. Could completely shut down certain champions, particularly in the late game. Could reach 5-6 seconds in the later game. May be too strong. Would be the only form of non-slow CC to exist on an item. Very powerful.

I'm not certain the active is something that should be on an item clearly intended to be "the core tank item". It's very strong just on stats and slot-efficiency, so any game with a tank will see this bought almost every game. This active is probably too strong to be attached to such a generalist item. It means that every game with a tank will see high-mobility champions face an active designed to counter and screw them. That potential is something that should be limited to more situational items.

It's like this item is trying to solve almost every problem a tank could face all at once. That's probably not ideal.